any experience with psychologist/counseling for young child with h/f autism?

Discussion in 'disABILITIES Community Board' started by kirstenb1, Aug 2, 2012.

  1. kirstenb1

    kirstenb1 DIS Veteran

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    Our younger dd is 6. She was dx'd with high functioning autism at 20 mths. She seems to go through cycles of defiant, difficult behaviors.

    I honestly have no idea how to parent her, and neither does dh. We have a typical 14 yr old. She and I will butt heads occaisionally, but will both apologize for whatever and move on.

    Our youngest dd flies into these rages, often for seemingly no reason. I'll give an example. I woke her up at 7:45 for a day camp we had to go to in an hour. She got to watch the very end of Sesame Street. She was furious she'd missed most of the show. So she asked me to put in an Elmo DVD. I did, but then she got more angry saying it was the wrong one. I got mad at that point, and said she was welcome to go pick whatever one she wanted, but I was done waiting on her.

    She flew into a rage and tried to push over the heavy oak DVD tower we have. I put her in time out, and had to leave the room, because I was honestly afraid I was going to hit her.

    She has been like this since she was very young. Why is she so unpredictable and angry? Would a psychologist be able to help her/us?
     
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  3. clanmcculloch

    clanmcculloch DIS Veteran

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    I'd recommend a family counsellor who is familiar with autism. You and your DH need strategies for parenting such a strong willed child. Another strategy that I would recommend is talking to her Occupational Therapist and asking for strategies for what to do when things get out of control.

    I actually think an Occupational Therapist is better equipped to help with the anger. Typically this kind of anger in high functioning autistic kids is more from being overwhelmed with an inability to cope with their sensory and obsessive compulsive issues rather than just plain anger. OTs get that and work on teaching coping strategies and even just teaching an understanding of these issues to the child (and consequently the parent as well). If she understands the issue then she's better equipped to cope with it.

    I do have some observations about your morning routine. Wiht my DD, I found when she was young that she had to have an extremely rigid routine or else we had this kind of thing happening almost daily. A detailed checklist of all the things she needs to do in the morning made our morning routines SO much easier. This included things as detailed as brushing teeth, brushing hair, putting on clothes, putting on socks (for some reason these were done later; I wasn't about to argue, instead I just put another thing on the list), put on shoes, eat breakfast, drink juice, put on glasses, pack school bag, etc. If she's not reading then pictures work. I liked a dry erase board for this so that she could check the things off herself and then the list for nighttime routine included wiping the checklist clean right before going to bed. Instead of nagging for each and every little thing, I'd just ask where she is on the checklist.

    Also, TV distracts and stimulates my daughter too much. The TV isn't turned on in the morning. Things just don't go well, even to this day, if the TV is on.

    ETA: DD14 is in counselling right now. She's responding very well to CBT (Cognitive Behavioural Therapy) for OCD. We started this after her obsessive compulsive tendencies exploded into full blown OCD thanks to PANDAS (strep induced OCD). Other than that, we've worked with her OT and Speach & Language Pathologist for these kinds of issues.
     
  4. mchllevns

    mchllevns Mouseketeer

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    I don't know where you are located, but several states have therapists who are certified in Applied Behavior Analysis...(i.e. MA, NJ, FL are a few states I am aware of). I spent over 15 years working with individuals with autism, and saw great improvement in individuals as a result of the ABA programs we consistently used...a therapist could help you design a schedule and behavior plan geared to your DD, and also work with her on strategies for dealing with changes in routine and how to better express anger. I would look into this through your school system as well...your DD will do better with a response that is consistent between your home and school.

    Also...as an aside, I used schedules, check lists and written directions with my son who has ADHD...helped keep him on track and helped us avoid some of the conflict over telling him what to do...
     
  5. kirstenb1

    kirstenb1 DIS Veteran

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    Thank you so much CMC!! She does see an O/T weekly for help with sensory defensiveness, muscle weakness etc. I'll ask her O/T for advice.


    DD is also very manipulative. She'll issue an immediate, very insincere apology, almost like she's trying to check it off her list. Lately, we've been trying to tell her she needs to "act" like she's sorry, which is more important than just saying it.

    She will deliberately provoke our older dd, like laying across her, totally getting in her personal space. I constantly tell Zoe (younger dd), that if someone is looking like they're mad at her, she needs to stop what she's doing, and make a better choice. I feel like an idiot saying that, because part of me is like "this is common sense, of course people know to stop when they're making someone mad". But part of me is trying to think that maybe Zoe really doesn't know that. The other part of me thinks she totally knows it, and gets some payoff out of being contrary.

    I will definitely try for a more structured and written out morning routine. I try to wake up the kids earlier than later, just to build in some down time, so they don't feel like rush/rush/rush. But maybe a checklist is just what we need.


    BTW, I know of one other family with a son with PANDAS. He's 19. The mother said she'd take "plain old autism" any day of the week, and she's a great mom. So my heart goes out to you. :grouphug:
     
  6. kirstenb1

    kirstenb1 DIS Veteran

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    Unfortunately, there are few ABA therapists in the Richmond area, since virtually no insurance will cover them here. Actually, I had a huge fight, just trying to get coverage for O/T.
     
  7. clanmcculloch

    clanmcculloch DIS Veteran

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    I really hope you take what I'm about to say in the supportive way in which it's intended. I'm not sure how to say it without coming across like I'm criticizing (I'm also an Aspie so I'm not always sure of how to say thing right). I'm really trying to be helpful.

    A lot of what you're saying about her behaviours is painful for me to read. I honestly believe that you're applying behaviours and expectations fo a neurotypical child to your daughter who is not neurotypical. Her reasons behind some of these behaviours is NOT necessarily intentionally manipulative, defiant, difficult or even fake. You're doing her a disservice by saying this. Don't get me wrong; high functioning kids on the spectrum are capable of this but what you're describing does NOT sound like that to me. I'm reading a description of a child who is in pain and is fighting to try to figure out how to fit her square peg into a world that only has round holes. Let me try to explain using what you've posted.

    "She'll issue an immediate, very insincere apology, almost like she's trying to check it off her list. Lately, we've been trying to tell her she needs to "act" like she's sorry, which is more important than just saying it."
    Kids on the spectrum often do not know how to express their emotions in ways that are recognizable by others. It's possible that she really is genuine but doesn't show that in her body language or facial expressions because she doesn't know how. Learning how to pretend doesn't change this and it can be very hurtful to be told you're doing it wrong, especially by your parent, when you're in fact trying. Of course there's also the other possibility of something I used to encounter with my DD which is in the version of events in her mind, she was the one wronged or doesn't recognize what she did wrong and has learned that the socially expected convention is to say the words "I'm sorry" in order to fix the problem that you just don't understand when you can tell that people around you are upset with you. Then being told that it's not enough when you don't even know what is the right way to do it adds to the confusion.

    "She will deliberately provoke our older dd, like laying across her, totally getting in her personal space."
    Kids on the spectrum usually have no concept of personal space. Some need an extreme amount of personal space while others don't seem to understand that people need any personal space at all. Your daughter sounds like the latter. Mine was the same way. Laying across people can also be a type of sensory seeking behaviour that she does with people who are deemed safe in her mind.

    "I constantly tell Zoe (younger dd), that if someone is looking like they're mad at her, she needs to stop what she's doing, and make a better choice."
    Kids on the spectrum often don't read body language or facial expressions. Without these tools, how is somebody supposed to know that somebody is looking like they're mad? She's being told that she's making bad choices but she doesn't have the tools to understand how to identify that the choices aren't the right ones.

    Please understand that I'm not in any way saying that her behaviors should be excused. They absolutely shouldn't and as are demonstrating you know. What needs to happen though is that you and your DH need to understand the underlying cause of the behaviours so that you can better address them and teach her what she needs to know. You need to be MUCH more specific with your correction of her behaviours. Very straightforward rules like "no lying on other people allowed" rather than lecturing her will be much more effective. I'd also try reading up on Social Stories by Carol Grey. Social Stories are an amazing tool which allows you to explain rules and expectations in very simple and clear ways. I've found Social Stories to be immensely helpful. They've forced me to step back and really think about how to word instructions as I have a tendency to become very verbose (as you're unfortunately finding out by reading my long winded response).

    I've had to make a drastic change in mindset to go from punishing to disciplining. I know it sounds like semantics, but it's not. Punishing is just handing over a consequence and really doesn't teach anything besides the fact that something negative will happen when you do something wrong. Discipline involves teaching and generally the consequence has a direct correlation to the wrong behaviour and in our case I've also found that consequences that provide something she needs, like a sensory break or sensory inputs or opportunity to let out repetitive behaviours or whatever she seems to need at the time is also important. These days we do groundings from electronics since with DD14 she tends to get overstimulated with too much electronics to we basically unplug her when she starts getting out of control. We talk about why it's happening both discussing the offending behaviour and the reason for the specific consequence. At 6 years old your DD's not mature enough yet for that, but still, you can work with consequences that maybe give her some kind of sensory inputs when she's showing signs of needing it (maybe jumping jacks when she won't stop lying across her sister or writing a short story demonstrating what she thought she did wrong so she'll learn about the social interactions and maybe can explain it better than the unemotional I'm sorry; just a few off the top of my head thoughts).

    Thank you for the hugs. We're getting through the PANDAS treatment. She's finally off antibiotics as her titres are now below what's seen in the normal healthy population and her meds and CBT for OCD have her back to our "normal" daughter. It's certainly been a LOT of work to learn about her autism and then the OCD and PANDAS but we now have a friendly, talkative, excited and happy 14 year old (yes, she's actually a happy 14 year old girl; how many of those are there even in the neurotypical world? LOL) who has a world of possibilities for the future. Of course lets see if I still say that in a month when she enters high school. Yikes!
     
  8. kirstenb1

    kirstenb1 DIS Veteran

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    CMC, I'm definitely taking your comments to heart, and am thinking them over. Like Dr Phil says, do you want to be right, or fix things up?

    I have a sincere question. First of all, dd's therapists, school psychologist, etc have never agreed whether she's actually on the spectrum or not. I sat through a 2 1/2 hr IEP meeting in June, while they debated that topic. I knew the only way to get sped for dd was for them to find her blind, hearing impaired or ASD. So I told everyone that I thought even if she wasn't on the spectrum, she has a first cousin variant of ASD, so don't let's split hairs.

    Now to my question. When I said Zoe will do something hard headed, like persisting in laying on top of her sister, when her sister says stop. I sometimes feel like I'm in the Groundhog Day movie. Despite being told to stop, Zoe will do the same exact thing several times a week. Like it either never sinks in, or she's being hard headed. BTW, ironically, in her special ed preschool, she was the one kid who could correctly identify pictures of different facial expressions with the correct emotion, so I tend to think she understands when people are mad (but it is for some reason not relevant to her, no sarcasm intended, at all).

    Do you ever find with kids with ASD that things really do not ever sink in? Or do they sink in, but it's less relevant than for the average person? That is my sincere question.
     
  9. clanmcculloch

    clanmcculloch DIS Veteran

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    I'm so glad you didn't take any offense to what I said. I really am trying to be helpful.

    Honestly, it doesn't really matter if she's technically autistic or not. Her needs are what matter, not the diagnosis. You should take another look over the detailed results of her evaluation though. How's her pragmatic language? Does she have obsessive compulsive or sensory or anxiety issues? These things are important to understand. The diagnosis, not so much. The details of her areas of difficulty, abosolute.

    Regarding the pictures: There's a huge difference between identifying an emotion in a picture and recognizing it in real life. There's also a big difference between rote memorization of an academic fact (the 2D image on paper) and actual application of that fact which requires comprehension. In addition, knowing that the word mad goes with a certain facial expression doesn't necessarily mean that she puts the word mad together with the emotion. It's a group of letters and it's hard to say what meaning she has associated with that word. My DD had to go through this program called How Does Your Engine Run with her OT in order to understand that these words had specific meanings and what those meanings are. Obviously I don't know your daughter so I can't say for sure if she doesn't recognize facial expressions or is choosing to ignore them. Hopefully this is something that her OT and S&LP (I hope she has one) can help you distinguish.

    Things sinking in..... hmmmmmm..... Sometimes I think there's a comprehension issue when it's social stuff, sometimes I think they just don't agree that you're right because what you're saying just doesn't make as much sense to them as their interpretation and sometimes I think that they prefer to do things their own way. It's hard to tell what's going on. And yes, I do find I have to say things SOOOO many more times to DD14 (my Aspie) than to DD12 (my neuro-typical child) in order for it to stick. That doesn't mean DD14 gets away with inappropriate behaviour; it just means a lot more re-enforcement and discipline and much tighter reins. She sometimes doesn't get as much freedom as other kids her age to make some of her own decisions because she just doesn't weight all the same information. We have to lay out her choices for her in more detail.

    Remember that being hard headed could also be viewed as obsessive compulsive. If in he mind there is one right way of viewing or doing something, even if you tell her differently, her brain is convinced that you're wrong. She's not necessarily being willfully dismissive of what you say; it may take effort for her to ignore what her brain is telling her is right to listen to you when that same part of her brain is saying you're wrong. The compulsive need to listen to that part of her brain is very strong. It takes a lot of effort to ignore it. It can actually be very anxiety raising to try to ignore that part of her brain. Assuming that's what's even going on. Again, hopefully her OT and S&LP can help you distinguish between that and just plain old stubborness. I still struggle to differentiate these after all this time so don't think you're necessarily missing something obvious.

    It's very obviously that your questions are sincere. You're a great mom looking for some difficult answers to a very stressful, complex, confusing and emotional situation. Just keep asking questions of every resource you have. All of us who have special needs kids have been in your shoes and know the pressure you're under. Just keep moving forward one step at a time.
     
  10. kritter47

    kritter47 Mouseketeer

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    As an adult with AS, I can lay out the way my brain works for you. This may or may not apply to your daughter, but their are some similarities I would suspect.

    First of all, sibling rivalry exists between the most normal, average children in the world, and while it is something that needs to be dealt with, it's also something every family struggles with. My sister (two years younger, in my case) and I sometimes fought wars and were sometimes great friends. We both deliberately pushed each others buttons as well. If she's only acting out in one particular way toward her sister, I'd suspect that before any other motivation.

    As far as how I think, for me and many people with AS/HFA, our world is extremely logical with little regard to what others think of the decisions we make. After all, if my decision is made in sound logic, everyone else is obviously missing something something and their "wrong" thoughts and impressions are irrelevant and inconsequential. So during my school years for instance, if I could find a different, more efficient way to solve a math problem, I would disregard my teacher's instructions to follow certain steps and continue to solve it that way regardless of if I was continually marked down for it. My a means b and b leads to c, so there's no need for d, e or f no matter how many times I was told to do it that way.

    Even now, someone else's emotional response is fairly irrelevant to me. It's not that I can't tell they're upset that I'm picking apart their argument or making a point their are incredibly opposed to - it's that I think it's more important make my own point to them so that either a.) I can learn something more about their point of view by making them explain it in more detail or b.) I can correct whatever fallacy they have so that they don't continue to repeat it. This drives my mother absolutely nuts, but it's a part of me I can't really turn off. I just hide it better than I used to.

    So when you're correcting your daughter, I would suggest you explain your own logic in the decision, no matter how absurd it seems. If you lay down a rule, explain why it's important. And be prepared for her to challenge that logic if it doesn't mesh with hers ("Because I say so!" is perhaps the worst response if you want a kid like I was to change her behavior), and answer whatever problems with it she might have. "I can't get your DVD because I am cleaning up right now. When I am done, I can get it. If you want it right now, you can get it." Whenever possible, lay out the underlying rationale.

    As for the apology thing, there's a very good chance she might not be sorry if she doesn't understand what she should be sorry for. If I hurt someone's feelings by telling them their play needs more rehearsal, I think I've done them a favor by making sure they get better for the future. Many things come out "mean" that are just really, really overly blunt. And for me, at least, it makes life easier - I hate when people talk around a problem or hint at something or disguise a critique in a compliment.

    Following this, she is probably "manipulative," though likely not consciously. If she's like me, she learns what behaviors from her get the reactions from you and forms essentially an "if XXXX, then XXXX" reaction in her head. The fact that her tantrums stress you out is irrelevant, because she gets what she was looking for. In many cases, the best response to a tantrum is to a.) make sure she can't do anything ridiculously destructive to hurt herself and then b.) walk away. Or if she's got a room or something, then immediately put her in her room and leave her there until she's calmed down. Either go negative reinforcement or (if possible and IMO better) no reinforcement. She'll learn pretty quickly she has to find new ways of getting what she wants.

    So to that - explain to her what you want out of her being "sorry" for something. It's obviously not just the words, and you can't force her to regret a behavior she thinks is completely appropriate. What you want to start to get her to do is to try and project herself into the other person's shoes (which is both really hard and really easy for me - I can "logic" out what a person ought to be thinking and feeling and am therefore pretty good at arguing both sides of a point, but I have a hard time understanding their emotional connection to an incident). Turn the tables on her for some of her behavior - have someone lay across her and pin her down and ask her if she likes that. The more she is able to understand how certain behavior makes her feel, the more she'll be able to "logic" out how it affects others.

    A checklist/schedule is a great idea, though be aware they can also raise the stress level immensely on mornings where it has to be different (doctor's appointment or plumber coming over or whatever). I love my schedules, but I can become fixated on them too much and freak out when something unexpected happens.
     
  11. bookwormde

    bookwormde <font color=darkorchid>Heading out now, another ad

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    I guess I will start with why would she not be angry. She was born into a world where she is not understood and that she does not understand and because of that the world is non accepting and abusive.
    A good psychologist or councilor who has understanding and accepting of her differences and can help her understand the NT world and that the abuse is mostly unintentional can be a big help to her.
    Surrounding her with people (clinician, educators, friends and family) who truly understand her genetics and accept them with their challenges and gift is key to her health.
    "I honestly have no idea how to parent her, and neither does dh" This realization is the best first step since no parent even myself who is an aspie is provided any useful information by societal standards and in most cases what we have learned through life is counterproductive.
    Read, read, go to seminars, HFA/Aspergers support groups and read some more. not stuff meant for the general population, but information written for and about Aspergers and HFA.
    Only once you understand your child's genetics and the challenges and gift will you understand that she is much less manipulative than typical children, is just trying to manage (survive) in a world that is abusive and does not accept her for who she is. These kids do amazing well considering the level of stress and uncertainty that they deal with on a daily basis.
    I can tell you that the transformation is amazing once her environment supports her for who she is, understands, accepts and makes the necessary accommodations for her needs. I wish you lived a little closer to me, so I could visit you and provide the core knowledge and understanding that I have been able to help so many families in your situation.
    Bookwormde
     
  12. Schmeck

    Schmeck <font color=blue>Funny thing is now my 17 year old

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    This works for every single kid in the world, BTW - no one is born knowing how society works, some just pick up on the cues faster than others, or have a more flexible acceptance rate.

    You also described my parenting/teaching style to a "T"! I've found it to be pretty successful, with my own daughters (who have some issues but never needed to be diagnosed) and with the students I work with.
     
  13. clm10308

    clm10308 DIS Veteran

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    You may be too general with some of your expectations.

    Most AU kids do well with lots of structure. I would suggest that you make up a list of rules/procedures for the most problem situations. For example, for TV time with sis have a list of procedures something like 1. Hands and body to yourself., 2. Sit with bottom in chair. 3. No touching sis. Have the rules posted by the TV. She will have. A hard time understanding "get off your sis when she gets mad." while it will be much easier to understand "don't lay in sis"

    If she doesn't read yet add pictures to the procedure list.

    You can do the same thing for a morning routine. Have a set procedure for every morning with a written/picture schedule for her to follow. your oT can probably help with creating a picture schedule as well.

    The hard part for you with this is sticking to the schedule. If you know that Dd needs to watch a set program each morning, you will have to always wake her up in time or face the consequences (a melt down)

    Something else that might help
    The school district that I used to work for used a Boy's Town social skill program that has sdistinct steps and procedures for a wide variet of social skills. They start very simple with "How to Follow Directions" and "Greating Others" to "How to make a request" and "how to disagree" and "how to make an apology"

    If the child does not do one of the skills appropriately, then the teacher (or parent) reviews the steps to the skill, practice the skill, then gives a consequence.
    It might go like this "Susie, you did not .... correctly. The steps for ... are .... let's practice the steps. Show me the correct way to... that's right, very good. As a consequence of not ... We have run out of TV time and now we have to clean up for dinner."
    Although I don't have to use this system much now that my kids are older, we used it a lot in early elem years.
     
  14. kirstenb1

    kirstenb1 DIS Veteran

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    Thank you everyone, here. I'm a little overwhelmed with the whole situation right now, and am trying just to slow things down, and think carefully about the advice each of you has given. I really appreciate all of your advice.
     
  15. jodifla

    jodifla WDW lover since 1972

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    I would look for a Board Certified Behavior Analyst who can do a behavior plan for you.

    My son had some difficult behaviors in school. After the behavior plan, the behaviors stopped almost from the first day the plan was in place.
     
  16. cornflake

    cornflake DIS Veteran

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    Not for nothing, but a lot of what you describe sound like behaviours not unusual for kids without any diagnosable anything.

    Different kids are different. Some kids are more stubborn, or will argue about anything under the sun. Some are negative, some are uber positive. General personality is pretty set in the womb.

    I'm not saying your daughter doesn't have issues or etc. I have no idea. Just saying that her acting completely differently from how your other daughter did, not seeing things or responding the way you'd think would be obvious, and the parenting techniques that you'd developed that worked great the first time round having no effect, etc.? This happens with lots of "normal" kids too.

    Haven't you met any "if we'd had him/her first, he/she'd be an only child' people? ;)
     
  17. buffettgirl

    buffettgirl The whole tag thing, so 1990's internet.

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    she said in the first post that her daughter WAS diagnosed at 20 months. Unless you know more than her doctors, the suggestion that simply she needs to parent better is pretty insulting. I'm insulted, and I'm not even the OP.
     
  18. GraceLuvsWDW

    GraceLuvsWDW DIS Veteran

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    My dd is 9, and has been in and out of various therapists for over 3 years. None have done any good. She is a master defector and no therapist has ever even cracked the surface of her behavior issues. My daughter has two major issues: Anxiety and explosive (meltdown) behavior (as you described). She has put holes in her door, in her walls, has hit me (and very rarely others if she is "backed into a situation"), has hit herself, etc.

    No parenting book has ever described a child with the tenacity of my daughter. I've followed every technique to the nth degree-she always comes out the winner.

    All that said, I will tell you what has worked the best---getting to the "root" of the behavior. For my daughter 99.9% of the time her explosions are a direct result of anxiety. Over time I have come to realize that anxiety, as felt by my dd, is not a typical, garden variety type of anxiety. It is full on panic, fight or flight inducing anxiety. And it can be brought on days later, after days of minor things, or completely seemingly "out of the blue". But when the anxiety/panic occurs all bets are off on her controlling her impulses or behavior.

    So, reduction of anxiety is the key. Recognizing the warning signs of stress build up. Developing a mood barometer-type sixth sense that allows you to decrease the expectations and pull back on the requirements.

    I think any parent of NT kids would call this a lax parenting tactic. I think any parent of a child with AS would tell you it's the key to everyone's sanity. :goodvibes

    Tomorrow's a new day. Bad days happen for all of us. :grouphug:
     
  19. GraceLuvsWDW

    GraceLuvsWDW DIS Veteran

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    My dd does things like this too. I think she doesn't really "get" how other people see this as such obnoxious behavior (your dd's face recognition may not translate in actual situations yet). In fact, she might see it somewhat as a game, becuase it usually gets a rise out of people.

    My dd doesn't learn lessons in the typical way. She rarely is able to connect her behavior to a consequence-instead she blames me for the consequence. All I can say is keep at it in the hopes that through age and maturity, these lessons will stick.

    Natural consequences are the best: such as the sister not sitting next to her anymore. And being "angry" with her is a natural consequence. I don't think AS should be a ticket for behaving rudely, but understand that she may not understand how offensive her behavior is, as her theory of mind is limited.
     
  20. kirstenb1

    kirstenb1 DIS Veteran

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    Grace, I was hoping you'd see this!! I can remember you posting about your dd a couple of years ago, and Zoe reminded me of her. Thanks!

    Everyone, I did ask Zoe's OT for advice. She said Zoe had always been so passive that this was progress. She said she thought Zoe was trying to control things, and gave me some ideas to work on.

    Cornflake, for the millionth time the whole DIS has asked, do you even have children?
     
  21. GraceLuvsWDW

    GraceLuvsWDW DIS Veteran

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    @ kirstenb, yes my dd has behaviors that definitely look willfully malicious! And your OT is correct imo, it does stem from a need to control, but getting deeper than that---the underlying reason why she needs to control is probably due to anxiety. I only know my dd, so can't be sure about Zoe, but truly-anxiety reduction methods will get you further than "disciplining" the controlling behaviors.


    One thing I wanted to add is that we often don't realize that our AS children do not interpret things like emotions and body language as well as our NT brains. So, brustling or acting angry doesn't always make a clear impression. I tell everyone my daughter is around to be VERY SPECIFIC AND CLEAR when communicating with her. So, if she is bugging them I encourage them to say "I don't like it when you ______. Please stop doing ________ now ". Clear, concise statements not laced with confusing emotional tones work best with my dd. :goodvibes
     

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