ALL RESORTS BOOKED FROM OCT to JAN

Given that studios were already more popular than 1 BR and that the changes you reference will further alter than demand, I suspect we'll see a reallocation in a few years raising studios by 10-15% and lowering 1BR by a similar amount.

I tend to agree, especially in a place like VWL or BWV where a studio now nominally sleeps 5 compared to the 4 in a 1BR.

I better start buying popcorn stock now for those studio increase reallocation threads, there's bound to be a national popcorn shortage!
popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::

Oh yes this will be a hot one! Look at those who were quite upset when Disney reallocated seasons a few points and they couldn't do what they had in the past. Now if people will only be able stay 5 nights in a studio instead of the usual 7 nights for the same season...yes, quite a popcorn shortage.

As for the OP, if DVC doesn't work for you any more then it is like any other asset...you sell it. That goes for automobiles, homes, etc...just the nature of a changing world and needs. As long as I've been a member and looking on this board, the need to be able to plan at least 7 months out has always been advised to prospective buyers. This is not new, but availability may be less than past years based on aging demographics (that can take off time in a more flexible manner) and the growth of events such as F&W festival. Neither of these are something that DVC sales reps control.
 
There actually are warnings concerning availability of rooms in the public offering documents that were provided by Disney at the time of sale. In the declarations, Disney explains how the point system means any member can reserve any room at any time of the year and then warns that all reservations are on a first come first served basis and there is no guarantee you will be able to get the reservation you want, and you are encouraged to reserve as far in advance as allowed to be able to get your choice of vacation homes and times. See, e.g., section 4.2.b in the declarations. The multistate POS, which deals mostly with reserving resorts other than your own, also mentions that Disney does not guarantee you can get a reservation and states that Disney may in the future add new resorts to the DVC system without your consent, and that doing so could result in many new members competing with you for reservations at your own and other resorts. It also declares that reservations are on a first come first served basis, that there is no guarantee you can reserve what you want, and that the longer you wait to make a reservation the less likely you will be anle to get it. See, e.g., Multistate POS sections II and III.4.

DVC cannot legally sell memberships where the number of points sold would exceed the number it takes to reserve all the rooms for a year. I did a check of BWV's public filings on its units and total points for each and all of the units, which would include the share of points that would be kept by DVD (the 2% to 4% of all the units), which showed that the total total number of points created for BWV was a little less than it would take to fill all the rooms for a year if you assumed all 2BRs were reserved as 2BRs and not separately as studios and 1BRs. In other words, Disney actually "undersold" the resort in that it did not determine total salable points on the basis that those 2BR lock-offs could be reserved separately as studios and 1BRs for a higher total of points than reserving a 2BR.

What you are seeing now for Oct to Jan is a culmination of many factors that have developed over the years. Late Sep to marathon weekend in January has become the high demand season at WDW and demand during that time makes most of the rest of the year look like off-season. Most of the rooms at near park resorts are gone before 7 months out, and even SSR is disappearing some days during that high demand season before 7 months out, and only hope, prayer, and diligence in constantly searching availability, can possibly get you a studio anywhere during that high demand season at 4 months out or less.

Factors that have contributed to that high demand, including demand to the ultimate extreme for studios, include: (a) the ever growing popularity of Food & Wine, Halloween events, and Christmas decorations and related events; (b) the low, choice or adventure season points needed for most of the time during that high demand quarter; (c) ideal weather most of the time before you get to December and even then it is usually OK; (d) the ever growing, aging population of DVC members who are no longer tied to school schedules because kids are grown, no longer need rooms larger than studios, and now choose that period for reasons (a), (b) and (c) above; (e) the ever growing population of members who own 100 points or less, can get only studios, and highly prefer low point cost seasons because they have bought low point add-ons in the resale market, a market that has over the years become so much easier with the development of the internet, or have purchased from Disney since the Great Recession of 2008-09, when it lowered its point minimums to 100 and sometimes as low as 50; and (f) there are now a lot more members competing at 7 months out for the highly desired, "close to park" resorts. Moreover, in the last several years,members have become far more aware of the high demand season, including because websites discuss it and you can now see availability on the member site, with the result that more are reserving their home resorts at 11 months out while reserving the possibility of switching at 7, and most who attempt to reserve a non-home resort during that time are making the attempt at exactly 7 months out.

Disney obviously did contribute to the high demand during that quarter but not in an illegal manner as far as I am aware. It set the points at the choice and adventure season level for most of that quarter and has not done a reallocation to lower demand. It created the WDW events that have caused high demand for that time. It built many new DVC resorts increasing the total membership. It did contribute to the over demand and the legal "oversell" of studios by: (a) creating, beginning long ago, low point add-ons that could be resold to new members; (b) lowering the minimum point requirements for new purchasers from DVD to a level where the purchasers could get only studios, while coupling that with (c) a 50% increase in the price per point in the last six years during which inflation has been less than 2% a year, thus making it more difficult for purchasers to buy more points than those needed for a studio, and (d) creating resorts in VGF and Poly (and soon Copper Creek at WL), where the price per point and the points needed per night are so high that most can buy only enough points to get a studio, while DVD sells all those points for larger, but outragiously expensive, signature rooms, like GVs and bungalows, to members who can afford to buy only enough points for studios, thus creating a much larger pool of members who are seeking studios both at the 11 month window for their home resorts and the 7 month window for others.
 
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@drusba I think your points c) and d) are key.

Orginal OKW contract minimums were basically enough for a 2BR in Dream season (270 points) for about $14k

Today, buying enough points for a VGF 2BR in dream season (480 points) is about $80,000.

While orginal owners were basically the reason weekend vs weekday needed to be re-allocated. We are now to a point where long term owners may be getting punished because of a greedy sales organization.

And pushing this faster is Poly. They need to reduce bungalow points...but will have a hard time increasing studios, unless they happen to increase all resort's studios at the same time.
 


Yea, it should be entertaining.
As a family of 4, we prefer 1BR's over studios and we only own 150 points. I would be over the moon if the cost of a 1BR were reduced:cloud9:. We also typically travel Sun-Fri (5 nights) and the reallocation back in 2010 was a big blow for us. Lowering the point requirement for a 1BR would go a long way in getting us back to the plans we started with in 2008 when we bought in.:yay:
 
As a family of 4, we prefer 1BR's over studios and we only own 150 points. I would be over the moon if the cost of a 1BR were reduced:cloud9:. We also typically travel Sun-Fri (5 nights) and the reallocation back in 2010 was a big blow for us. Lowering the point requirement for a 1BR would go a long way in getting us back to the plans we started with in 2008 when we bought in.:yay:
Per the POS, DVC is required to rebalance if the systems gets out of balance too much. Plus, IMO, the breakdown between studios and 1 BR was off from the start.
 
And pushing this faster is Poly. They need to reduce bungalow points...but will have a hard time increasing studios, unless they happen to increase all resort's studios at the same time.

The bungalows are 85% sold out over the next 150 nights. That number is about the same as grand villas at BLT & VGF, higher than SSR & AKV. And Poly Standard View Studios have availability on about 10% of nights over the same period--not much different than the bungalows.

Really not seeing how the Poly points need to be altered.
 


The bungalows are 85% sold out over the next 150 nights. That number is about the same as grand villas at BLT & VGF, higher than SSR & AKV. And Poly Standard View Studios have availability on about 10% of nights over the same period--not much different than the bungalows.

Really not seeing how the Poly points need to be altered.
Question is: How many of those are cash bookings vs. point bookings? If they're mostly cash, as the points sell out it may create system imbalances, especially if most people are buying small point contracts.
 
Question is: How many of those are cash bookings vs. point bookings? If they're mostly cash, as the points sell out it may create system imbalances, especially if most people are buying small point contracts.

Guess is that Tim used the RAT to see what was available for points and 85% of the nights for the next 5 months or so were unavailable to be booked for points.

Personally, I'm not so sure that seeing bungalows booked for cash is a bad thing. Since so many members use points for cruising (and there are many, many points used this way), what if DVC is sending those "unwanted" bungalow nights to DRC instead of the villa nights members are more likely to want? I see that as a good thing for the membership as a whole as well as for Disney!
 
There are two ways out of the overall conundrum for DVCMC. One is to reallocate studios vs. 1BRs. But, the other is a seasonal reallocation bumping up the Fall quarter costs and lowering something else. One candidate for a seasonal lowering would be the summer period of July to mid-August. In cash rates, that's "Value 2" season, but still Magic season for points. In some resorts/room sizes, a room rented from Disney during this period with prevailing discounts is about the same as renting from e.g. David, but the cash reservation is under much friendlier terms---you can cancel it, get daily housekeeping, etc.

If I were forced to place a bet, I think a seasonal reallocation is more likely than an across-the-board studio vs. 1BR reallocation, but one never knows.
 
Question is: How many of those are cash bookings vs. point bookings? If they're mostly cash, as the points sell out it may create system imbalances, especially if most people are buying small point contracts.

Cash reservations can only take from DVC inventory at 60 days. There are dozens of nights beyond that point where the bungalows are already full. (And even nights where the website is showing SOME availability, it could be as little as 1 unbooked bungalow. I find it very difficult to believe that the bungalows are fully booked one night and nearly vacant the next.)

I just don't get this obsession with the bungalows. The DVC program has had high-priced Grand Villas for 25 years now, and nobody has ever tracked their occupancy and speculated over reallocations. Heck, SSR alone has 36 Grand Villas--nearly twice the number of bungalows. And every time I've looked, there were more openings for a larger SSR grand villa than a Poly bungalow.

Additionally, there are far greater imbalances in the point system. Early December has been over-priced (respective to demand) for more than a decade. Fall demand continues to climb. Yet the fixation with the bungalows continues.

I realize that the bungalows are not affordable for most members--myself included. But they are TWENTY ROOMS out of THOUSANDS in the entire DVC program. It doesn't take much demand to fill that tiny number of villas.
 
I think if they were to increase the studios and decrease the 1brs you'd see more people exit DVC honestly who had planned based on their purchase of using studios all the time
 
Early December has been over-priced (respective to demand) for more than a decade.

Early December is currently extremely high demand, in part because of the current valuation. Not sure it's "over-priced" for demand there. I'm sure @drusba can comment in much more detail, but demand is absolutely there in early December right now. I think first week of December, prior to the new declaration, Poly actually filled before 7 months.
 
I think if they were to increase the studios and decrease the 1brs you'd see more people exit DVC honestly who had planned based on their purchase of using studios all the time

You could be correct. Certainly the sales people use studios when they are pitching the "save 50%" kind of numbers, and I'm sure that many members have only stayed in studios (and have been happy to do so). If they bump studio point schedules significantly, you could well see a sell-off of many contracts. The alternative would be for those members to add on points and I think many would be reluctant to do so at today's prices.
 
There are two ways out of the overall conundrum for DVCMC. One is to reallocate studios vs. 1BRs. But, the other is a seasonal reallocation bumping up the Fall quarter costs and lowering something else. One candidate for a seasonal lowering would be the summer period of July to mid-August. In cash rates, that's "Value 2" season, but still Magic season for points. In some resorts/room sizes, a room rented from Disney during this period with prevailing discounts is about the same as renting from e.g. David, but the cash reservation is under much friendlier terms---you can cancel it, get daily housekeeping, etc.

If I were forced to place a bet, I think a seasonal reallocation is more likely than an across-the-board studio vs. 1BR reallocation, but one never knows.
I wouldn't be surprised if they did both at the same time.

I think if they were to increase the studios and decrease the 1brs you'd see more people exit DVC honestly who had planned based on their purchase of using studios all the time
Irrelevant from DVC's side, if one sells someone else will be there to take their place. Certainly it could push DVC to not being a good choice for some but it'd make DVC a better choice for others, IMO it'd be a wash overall.
 
I wouldn't be surprised if they did both at the same time.

Irrelevant from DVC's side, if one sells someone else will be there to take their place. Certainly it could push DVC to not being a good choice for some but it'd make DVC a better choice for others, IMO it'd be a wash overall.

I'm not sure about that... even if folks hold onto their DVC membership it may force them to go less often and bank points instead which might decrease some park attendance numbers as well. hard to tell
 
I'm not sure about that... even if folks hold onto their DVC membership it may force them to go less often and bank points instead which might decrease some park attendance numbers as well. hard to tell
The rooms will get used even if it's breakage or cash exchange inventory. It will make zero difference in park attendance. And they get to pocket the breakage rentals fees once it hits the limit. Even then it could only push it back for one year.
 
I'm not sure about that... even if folks hold onto their DVC membership it may force them to go less often and bank points instead which might decrease some park attendance numbers as well. hard to tell

Keep in mind that there are a number of DVC members who book 1BR instead of studios (like me). Ostensibly, I could go for more days in a year to offset some of that issue. Also, as Dean pointed out, banking points is a one time issue and if I had to guess, the number of people that would be affected by this wouldn't be much of a percentage of WDW's annual attendance. But I still agree that there would be a number of people selling their DVC contracts...and I also agree that Disney couldn't care less about that.
 
I think if they were to increase the studios and decrease the 1brs you'd see more people exit DVC honestly who had planned based on their purchase of using studios all the time

That's kinda the point. If Studio demand exceeds supply, part of the solution is reducing the number of guests who are drawn to Studios.

The other intended results are:

1) Requiring those who still wish to stay in Studios to expend more of their resources (more points per night), and
2) Increasing the desirability of One Bedroom units by lowering their cost
 

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