Age Breakdown of the Resorts

Discussion in 'Purchasing DVC' started by PamOKW, Feb 14, 2002.

  1. PamOKW

    PamOKW <font color=green>The two most important items for

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 1999
    Messages:
    10,561
    As of 2:00 p.m. today it looks like the majority of people at each resort fall into the 30-50 age group at roughly the same percentages. OKW 76%, BWV 70% and WLV 81%.

    OKW’s poll was confusing on the Under 30 question so I haven’t included an amount for them in that category.

    For Under 30, BWV has 12% and WLV 10%. For 30-40, OKW has 33%, BWV 36%, and WLV 45%. For 41-50, OKW has 43%, BWV has 34% and WLV has 36%. 50-59 is at 18% for both OKW and BWV and 6% for WLV. Over 60, has 6% at OKW and 3% at WLV.

    BWV breaks out pretty evenly between the 30-40 group and the 41-50 group. OKW leans toward the 41-50 bracket and WLV towards the 30-40 group. Looks like we’re basically the same with WLV leaning slightly younger.

    No 60+ members at BWV??
     
  2. Avatar

    DIS Sponsor The Official Ticket Center is Orlando’s #1 discount attraction ticket agency, selling millions of Walt Disney tickets around the world.



    to hide this adverts.
  3. PKS44

    PKS44 DIS Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2001
    Messages:
    1,457
    SO for OVER 50- the numbers are-

    OKW 24%
    BWV 18%
    WLV-9%

    OKW is an older group. There are 50% more older folks by percentage than BWV and more than double compared to WLV.

    Multiply those percentages by the much larger total group for OKW and sorry, no matter how you slice it...there are more "O" folks at OKW than at the other resorts.

    Paul
     
  4. DVC-Don

    DVC-Don DIS Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2001
    Messages:
    7,000
    That's sort of what I heard from a CM about the owners at OKW being an older group. Being a past EMS worker I got into a discussion of deaths in Disney Resorts. I know, weird conversation, huh? An ambulance came through Priority 1 (lights & siren, I think that's how it started.) Anyway he said that most of the deaths in a Disney resort are at DVC resorts, with OKW having the most of the DVC resorts. His statement now, not mine, "They're an older bunch over there you know."
     
  5. Beth

    Beth Just happy to be here...

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 1999
    Messages:
    1,809
    What is the point of this discussion?!?

    How many OKW members were there when Boardwalk first opened - in '96, right? 20,000? I know there were 25,000, total, in '97. That's approximately 20,000 members who had 5-6 years on those that FIRST bought into BWV. It could easily account for the higher percentages of OKW'ers being in a higher bracket, couldn't it?

    I know "I've" jumped an age bracket since we bought into OKW - I was a 20-30 when we bought in. I don't consider myself old, and I "still" prefer OKW over either of the other two Disney properties. Why does that lump me in as "old?"

    I'm just trying to understand...
     
  6. PKS44

    PKS44 DIS Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2001
    Messages:
    1,457
    There are many reasons why OKW might be an "older" crowd...we were trying to see if the perception that it seems older is reality...it appears it is...the discussion stems from the apparent disinterest in changing the OKW main pool-as Disney has done with every other older pool.

    Those of us in favor of seeing change suspect that the older demographic at OKW prizes quiet pools over children squealing with delight (or whatever), stability over change. They don't like new styles, new music, or new ideas. They tend to be conservative rather than experimental. Older people tend to resist change.
    In other words we can probably forget about ever seeing OKW changing that main pool.
     
  7. Granny

    Granny Yeah, I'm a guy

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2001
    Messages:
    11,766
    Well, there used to be some 60+ aged members but they all keeled over trying to get from the elevators to their rooms! :D :D :D
     
  8. PamOKW

    PamOKW <font color=green>The two most important items for

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 1999
    Messages:
    10,561
    That's what I was thinking, Granny. ;)

    Paul -- Unless you are kidding I think you are taking this way too seriously.

    At the time I looked at the numbers, there were 17 people in the 51-60 category at BWV or 18.48% of that total. At OKW there were 19 people in the 50-59 category or 17.92%. We can round them both to 18%....or we can say BWV is slightly older. ;)

    The difference in total people over 50 is the 6 people over 60 at OKW vs. none at BWV. Considering we may have folks trying to sway the vote to older....I don't see where those 6 people make OKW an old folks home.

    As we all know, there is much more space in the rooms at OKW making them perfect for family gatherings....multi-generational family gatherings where people are likely to have a medical emergency.
     
  9. PamOKW

    PamOKW <font color=green>The two most important items for

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 1999
    Messages:
    10,561

    LOL!! We're drawing an awful lot of conclusions from this stupid, totally unscientific survey. They don't like new things, yet they are here on the Internet discussing their DVC purchase. Most of them are older because they are from the older resort where they've owned for 10 years. The folks who are in their 50's now were in their 40's when they purchased and they took a chance on a experimental concept called DVC. ;) ;)
     
  10. Werner Weiss

    Werner Weiss Curator of Yesterland

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 1999
    Messages:
    1,149
    Thank you for putting the remarks about "older people" into perspective! My first reaction was to find the remarks offensive, although I'm in my 40s. I agree that it's healthier just to laugh.
     
  11. GAIL HAYDEN

    GAIL HAYDEN DVC Member since '92

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 1999
    Messages:
    13,025
    Pam,
    Nicely said.
    For the record I do like new music, I do like to try new things, I do resist change, but most people do. I don't really feel I need to defend, however, the fact that my age is just something that happens naturally and something I have no control over. I am not too old to have an open mind, a very important tool, btw, for fighting ignorance.
    It is a shame that some intolerant people ,who cannot get their own way, will point the finger and say it is because Old Key West has Old people.
    Disney can improve all the resort pools they want, but, Disney itself does not own DVC, members own DVC.
    The vast majority of your unscientific poll and DVC's member polls state that they don't want a pool with a slide. Simple, easy and hopefully, the end of it.
    Now, tell me, Pam, how is the thought of an ADULT's only MEMBER pub going? ;)
     
  12. PKS44

    PKS44 DIS Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2001
    Messages:
    1,457
    Pam-

    First, I find this all very interesting and amusing, nothing to take seriously... if you knew my day job, you'd know I need something this inconsequential to distract me...

    The survey may or may not be accurate. It is the only data we have. If it represents the truth, it would fit with everything we know and have heard here on these boards. The EMS comment posted here confirms what I think the surveys show. OKW is made up of a larger percentage and a greater number of older people than the other resorts. Why dispute it? I did not say that makes it bad. I think it explains why the resort is the way it is, and why some people do or do not like it according to their own philosophy of family vacation. Today my wife told me she would not like OKW no matter how great the pool was- too quiet and far from the shops, the restaurants, the action....That probably causes shudders in some people, that is not the point.... The point is that making the pool more family- oriented (as Disney would do if they owned it) and less "grown-up/old" would not change the atmosphere-OKW would still be the quiet, peaceful, relaxing and beautiful golf course resort it always will be...unless they add a bunch of night clubs, restaurants, shops, etc...and no one suggested that they should.

    Presumably the OKW group is older because they have been around longer, but that still makes them older. ( When they bought into the new idea of DVC they were younger.) Older people whether you or I like it, (and I do not) in general, do tend to behave and think in certain ways. Not all people, not every old person, but the whole science of surveys depends on the idea that groups can be represented somewhat accurately by a portion of the whole. These thoughts about how older people think are not based on these threads or surveys, but on observation of how people in general behave. If you read through the various OKW pool threads, the sentiment expressed seems to me to be one I would expect from an older demographic. "Less noise," "fewer kids," "adults only"...these are not what you would expect to hear from young families, but empty nesters--either the always childless or currently childless if the kids have grown (as in older people). What would be so bad about that if it were the truth? Why would you dispute it? It would explain a lot.

    Paul
     
  13. Werner Weiss

    Werner Weiss Curator of Yesterland

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 1999
    Messages:
    1,149
    The resort "is the way it is" because that's how Disney designed it!

    And it's not as though there's a homeowners association of elected senior OKW owners calling the shots.

    When somebody buys into a timeshare (and, yes, DVC is a timeshare), they expect to be able to enjoy the resort for many years, consistent with what they saw when they bought. The timeshare management company has an obligation to manage the property prudently, both to keep annual costs reasonable and to make sure that the owners get what they bought.

    Of course, this raises the question of how the management company should react to changes in taste, expectations, and technology over time.

    OKW, although it's ten years old, has aged gracefully. The decor and architecture don't seem dated. In comparison, we recently stayed at Marriott's Cypress Harbour in Orlando which is also around ten years old. Although we enjoyed our stay, the decor screamed "late 1980s" (which is when Cypress Harbour was designed).
     
  14. GAIL HAYDEN

    GAIL HAYDEN DVC Member since '92

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 1999
    Messages:
    13,025
    Werner,
    Ah, so nicely put, as usual. Thank you !!!!!
     
  15. PKS44

    PKS44 DIS Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2001
    Messages:
    1,457

    Ah, but would Disney leave the pool the way it is if they still owned it? Doubtful. Now, it reflects its current owners.

    Also, interesting- Gail points out in another thread that Disney is marketing to empty nesters and older folks. To do so they have to assume such people think as a group in a certain way. Disney designs this resort possibly to capture that market? Yet I suggest that older folks think a certain way and it is considered offensive. Do or don't age demographics reflect how people think? Quoting myself- "the older demographic at OKW prizes... stability over change. They don't like new styles, new music, or new ideas. They tend to be conservative rather than experimental. Older people tend to resist change.
    In other words we can probably forget about ever seeing OKW changing that main pool." If I misunderstand the older market please correct me, and correct Madison Avenue, and Disney while you are at it. People are assigning value to subjective judgements....It is not wrong to be conservative rather than experimental--to prefer the old and not the new---give me old Penn Station over new Penn Station ..It is not attacking to note the market preferences of certain age groups...it is not intolerant..but calling people names just because they don't share your opinion is. We can differ in our perceptions of pools and people, but it is wrong to start attacking people.

    The real difference of opinion here is that I don't share the sense that a change in the pool would alter the resort atmosphere or theme to any degree. OKW is a large and lovely resort. I was hoping that the owners would treat it's pool the same way Disney would if they owned it. Others VEHEMENTLY feel any pool change would seriously damage the peace and tranquility of the resort. I don't see it and I am trying to understand why anyone would think that it would.

    From what I have read and understand about the demographics of OKW, it looks like it will not be changing the main pool. Is that true or not? Is it possible the demographics have something to do with it? If they don't- where is the harm in thinking it might? Is it intolerant to suggest demographics can predict preferences?...then you should be offended by every attempt to target a demographic market.
     
  16. CRobin

    CRobin DIS Veteran<br><a href="http://www.wdwinfo.com/dis

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2001
    Messages:
    584
    This is certainly an interesting thread, albeit with little likely consequence.

    I doubt that "demographics" will play a big role in what Disney does or doesn't do with the pool. Last I looked, OKW was SOLD OUT. That means that, save a default or two, Disney is going to get the operating expenses, property taxes, and capital budget for that resort for the next 40 years. So, "targeting" a specific age group really makes no sense.

    I guess I missed the post where someone vehemently opposed changing the pool, or maybe I read it wrong. I felt the gist of those not wanting to change was "it ain't broke and we don't have a problem with it".

    Pumps and valves go south. Concrete cracks. Pools break. OKW's will too (however it has certainly had a better track record than VWL;) ). When it's time for a major overhaul, Disney may decide to put in some upgrades, change the theming, or they may not. What the members think will likely be taken as a consideration but nothing more, IMHO.

    Granny - you beat me to the punch with the explanation to Pams' query as to why there were no 60+ aged members @ BWV. LOL!
     
  17. Towncrier

    Towncrier DIS Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 1999
    Messages:
    10,309
    Pam hit the nail on the head. When I first looked at DVC, I was in my 30's. By the time I bought at OKW, I had just turned 40. Statistics are a funny thing. You cannot compare DVC ownership without factoring in the availability date of the resorts. So far there aren't any young or old folks at all at Eagle Pines or the DVC at Disney Institute. What conclusions can you draw from that? (other than perhaps Towncrier got out of bed on the wrong side this AM).
     
  18. LisaR

    LisaR <img src=http://www.wdwinfo.com/images/silver.jpg>

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2000
    Messages:
    8,981
    Just my .02 cents but......
    Some of us that are young, OKW members who like new things, music, styles, etc and have 2 young, noisy children don't see the point in spending money on a new pool. My kids LOVE okw pools. My kids do not have an inground pool at home. They have a 15' above ground pool that we don't get to use often as our summers stink! To go to OKW and swim in a huge pool and make new friends is something they are overly thrilled with.

    In all honesty, if my kids ever complained about the OKW pools being boring, they would have some very angry parents. They get to go to Disney 2 times a year and stay in a 2 bedroom resort. They dine with the characters, go on rides, see shows, etc. And they get to swim in something that can't even compare to what they have at home. Yes, my kids are spoiled. However, they can't have every single thing in life. If a huge pool isn't good enough for them, they would spend a vacation with grandma while mom and dad went and slummed it in the OKW pools! LOL

    Lisa
     
  19. PamOKW

    PamOKW <font color=green>The two most important items for

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 1999
    Messages:
    10,561
    There are several disparities in the way the different polls were worded that make direct comparison difficult. There was no Under 30 category for OKW. Write-in was suggested but that is not an equal option to being able to click the poll. Also, 50-59 was the category for OKW while BWV & VWL used 51-60. A 60 year old would be in a different category depending upon resort. OKW also had 41-50 and 50-59 as categories vs. 41-50 and 51-60 as the breakouts for BWV and VWL.

    To try to make the comparison more apples-to-apples, I've eliminated the Under 30 votes. I'll let the disparity on the Over 60 category stand. Unfortunately, my attempts at charts don't seem to line up well here so I'll do my best to lay it out. (#) is the total number of votes

    30-40 OKW 29% (36) BWV 41% (39) VWL 54% (45)
    41-50 OKW 46% (57) BWV 39% (47) VWL 37% (30)
    50-59 OKW 19% (23) BWV 19% (18) VWL 5% (4)
    60+ OKW 6% (7) BWV 1% (1) VWL 4% (3)

    Combined:

    30-50 at OKW 75%; BWV 80%; VWL 91%
    Over 50 at OKW 25%; BWV 20%; VWL 9%

    The proposition was that age of members was the reason there was not a push for a slide at OKW. Taking just OKW votes on the slide question (with it's own imperfections) that doesn't seem to hold up. A total of 30 people identified themselves as over 50 but 75 votes were received to keep the slide as it is. It seems that votes must have come from those Under 50 as well. The breakout on that poll is:

    112 OKW votes on the subject
    17% for a new slide
    13% for a new pool
    3% for some lesser improvement
    67% leave as is.

    Coincidentally, this is about the same breakout of vote DVC got on their poll several years ago.

    Some valid reasons to consider changes at the OKW pools have been given here and some valid rebuttals as well. Age, however, does not seem to be the deciding factor on how people feel about the pools and I don't think a huge age disparity among the DVC's has been proven either. Not wanting a slide does not mean children aren't welcome. Looking for upgrades in the adult features doesn't mean children shouldn't be considered also. No one said to make it "adult only". The GF has a much more adult feel -- the All-Star appeals more to children -- you'll find children and families at both of them because it is WDW. The same with DVC's -- maybe as their personalities develop one will be more adult and one more childlike. I'm guessing the Eagle Pine development will cater to more adult tastes trying to bring in the golfers. Maybe the DI will develop into a resort that is looking for the young family even more so than BWV.

    Combining all the votes (but still eliminating the Under 30), the total breakout came out as follows:

    30-40 -- 40%
    41-50 -- 41%
    50-59 -- 15%
    60+ -- 4%

    That may give us some idea of who our fellow posters are. The number who identified as Under 30 was roughly 20 posters.
     
  20. GAIL HAYDEN

    GAIL HAYDEN DVC Member since '92

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 1999
    Messages:
    13,025
    Paul,
    It is not what you say that offends, it is how you say it. Your comments come across in a very flippant and rude manner and
    it appears you have no tolerance for anyone over the age of 50.
    I can understand your wife's thoughts on OKW and it appears that it is not her "cup of tea", hey, I don't find that offensive in the least, I find it honest and to the point. The way you repeated it to us made absolutely no slights to the Oldies here.
    I would not stay at BWV as it is too busy for me. It is a beautiful resort and I love the fact that you can access two parks from there quite easily, but I don't think I would be comfortable with the "hotelish" atmosphere or the noise that seems to be constantly present. Until recently, I worked in retail, and I received more than my share of noise in that enviornment, that is the last thing I want on vacation. For others, they don't care and that is great. Perhaps that is why Disney and DDC make so many different kinds of resorts. Diversity!!!!!!
     
  21. Granny

    Granny Yeah, I'm a guy

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2001
    Messages:
    11,766
    Pam,

    Whew....makes me tired just thinking of the effort you put into pulling those numbers together! Thanks for recapping (and hopefully putting to bed) those many polls! :)

    So what's it all mean? Nothing, but it's fun to get some results and see what the people posting on the boards are like.

    It's been interesting viewing the OKW pool debate, and even the pool hopping feedback in general. Personally, I think I would like to take advantage of pool hopping just to provide a little variation in future vacations.

    But I don't drive 900 miles to Orlando for the main purpose of swimming. So I can't get too excited about the pool stuff. As long as they keep them maintained, clean and OPEN (whine, whine), I am happy with them all.

    Thanks, Pam for pulling the information together.
     

Share This Page