1. Follow the DIS on Instagram! www.instagram.com/the.dis

A question regarding the growth of WDW

Discussion in 'Disney Rumors and News' started by DVC-Landbaron, Jan 13, 2013.

  1. rantnnravin

    rantnnravin No room in the suitcase? U can land a plane in it!

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2005
    Messages:
    1,582
    Please don't misunderstand...I don't believe that the value resorts come anywhere close to accomplishing that goal - and i'm not really quite sure where the twains might meet on that, anyway... maybe if we looked at like the ipod shuffle...
     
  2. Avatar

    Google AdSense Guest Advertisement


    to hide this advert.
  3. YoHo

    YoHo If you have any poo to fling, now is the time.

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 1999
    Messages:
    3,447
    I already answered Landbaron's original question, but I'll expand a little bit. And some of this is going to be reposting from 10 year old posts.

    I have some very specific problems with the expansion at Walt Disney World since Eisnery took over (and DL).

    I cannot personally envision how the original EPCOT would work in reality, so I'm hard pressed to say I'd have preferred that, but in the context of traditional Disney themeparks, I am disappointed in both the Studios and AK.

    Now, both concepts are in a real sense simply spin offs of EPCOT CENTER. There were plans for a Hollywood land and a "animal park" as part of EPCOT Center. All the was done was that they were spun off into their own parks. I'm not sure The studios in particular was a good choice for that however my chief complaint is execution.

    Similarly, I have no problems with the idea of expanding the number or price points of hotels on property. I have very specific problems with what was built. Disney had some very impressive ideas that got nixed in favor of what was built. The original hotel plans for Animal Kingdom in particular would have upended our understanding of theme park resort hotels. Instead they built a cookie cutter lodge.

    And Disney has now just been selling off land and reducing their control in ways that undermine the potential of the property to be more than just a collection of Themeparks.

    As hard as it is to imagine Walt's EPCOT, I think the concept of EPCOT Center should have been what drove the property going forward. Alas, it was left to stagnate and become a joke.
     
  4. disneyworld1977

    disneyworld1977 Mouseketeer

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2009
    Messages:
    399

    I totally agree with you on this. The Imagineers came up with their own unique ideas, storytelling, theme, whatever you want to call it with HM but with Carsland it already had the tie ins and story points as you said.

    But on the flip side of that what about Snow White, Peter Pan, and whatever original rides were at Disneyland. Those where movie tie ins.

    Now, having said that. I am with you on what you are saying. But I almost think there can be attractions on both sides of that, purely unique ones and at the same time make some that bring the Disney movies alive. Now catch that? DISNEY movies. Thats why I don't care for the Avatar deal. But of course we had Star Tours for a while without Disney having all that until now.

    Got to run for now.....
     
  5. YoHo

    YoHo If you have any poo to fling, now is the time.

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 1999
    Messages:
    3,447
    You will note that Snow White, Peter Pan and the rest were firmly kept in Fantasyland and were never E-ticket attractions.
    Zoro, Davy Crocket and tom Sawyer made appearances in Frontierland too, but again, they didn't comprise the E-ticket experience. That Was Mine train through Nature's wonderland.


    There is a place for Tie ins. Walt was very particular about where and when such tie-ins might go, but they existed and they were never in Walt's time the E-ticket experience.



    And I agree, I think bringing in outside properties is less compelling than bringing in Disney's own movie properties, but to me, that's a business decision separate from execution. The fact that these Tie ins are now the centerpiece attractions instead of the filler is the real problem to me.
     
  6. DVC-Landbaron

    DVC-Landbaron What Would Walt Do?

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2000
    Messages:
    1,861
    OK! Let’s get at it!!

    Of course!! That’s why I chose it as an example. It is a case of carrying a point to absurdity in order to make the point. But at least you understood the premise, so we can continue.

    EXACTLY MY POINT!! If you didn’t want to ride that ride (and maybe it was just too expensive for you) you skipped it. There was no dumbed down version of the ride you could go on for half the price!! The same with Disney resorts! If a Disney resort is out of your reach financially then you stay somewhere else! It’s really that simple. Now remember, the price point that Disney set for their “Disney Resort Experience” was WAY the heck cheaper than the God-awful prices we see today. But that goes hand in hand with making different levels to match different pocketbooks. The sharp-pencils-guys worked overtime at that one!!

    And the difference between buying more tickets to ride the ride is NOT the same as different levels of “Disney Experience”. It equates to spending more days in the resort. If you ride the ride once, it is the same experience as riding it ten times. If you stay in the resort for one day, it is the same experience as staying in there for ten days. See the difference? It’s the same SHOW. You’re just staying there longer. Same as the ride. It’s the same SHOW; you’re just riding it more often.

    I know I sound callous when I say that not everyone can afford Disney prices. But Disney is NOT a communistic company!! There are people in the good old USA today that cannot even afford the Values? What should Disney do with them? Maybe another level of resort is in order. A new price point set 25 to 30 bucks cheaper than the current Values. One that has block type buildings, painted eggshell white, but you get a Mickey balloon when you check in, the hostess is wearing Mickey ears and there is a rather colorful statue of Mickey in the lobby!!! Does that make it a “Magic” place? Does that give you a “Disney Experience”? After all, it has the Disney© on the top of your receipt?


    And I keep going back to the thousands of people across the country that can’t even afford the Values and ask, “How much dilution of the Disney Experience can happen before it ceases to be “Disney”? Where is the line?"
    Two things here. If the theme isn’t deep enough it is NOT Disney. Plain and simple! Where we might disagree is where to draw that line.

    And second, my personal opinion of likes and dislikes have nothing whatsoever to do with whether or not it is Disney. Personally I don’t care for the Contemporary’s theme. But I will admit, it is (was) immersive and up to Disney standards in every regard. On the other hand I LOVE the theme of the Poly! But I couldn’t say it is any better than the Contemporary or Fort Wilderness. All three are Disney. Period.

    That doesn’t matter one iota!! It is either Disney or it is not. How much time you spend there is totally irrelevant. In fact it makes the case that since you spend so little time at the resort, maybe you should consider and off site location. Makes sense, doesn’t it?

    Funny. They were making a tidy profit back in the seventies. So much so that because of their profit making abilities and because they were unwilling to build more, it made them very, very ripe for take-over!! Far, far from a money losing proposition!!

    You call it themed. I call it decorated. And I really don’t know how you can’t see that point. And further I don’t know how to adequately convince you. Maybe it’s time to agree to disagree.
     
  7. YoHo

    YoHo If you have any poo to fling, now is the time.

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 1999
    Messages:
    3,447
    Is it time to break out the Excel graph that shows the spike in Original (Deluxe) hotel pricing against inflation over the life of WDW? Because we have that spreadsheet :D


    Again, the Imagineers came up with a plan for multitier accommodations without sacrificing on the core concept of Disney themeing. Management decided they're rather build Wilderness Lodge 2: Wrath of the Tribal Masks.
     
  8. DVC-Landbaron

    DVC-Landbaron What Would Walt Do?

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2000
    Messages:
    1,861
    Last one and I think I'm caught up!!


    rantnnravin
    Yeah! I always like a good talk.
    Ah! Don’t worry!! You are certainly not the first. Just ask the Pirate or Mr. Kidds or the ghost that was Scoop!! Now. Let’s see where we might disagree (so I can tell you where you are wrong!!!) :)
    Ah! A common mistake. And really no problem to clear this up. You see, there is no difference in the “Disney Experience”, from “E” to “A”. What there is a difference is in concept, length, ride vehicle, etc., etc., etc. Let me see if I can illustrate it for you.

    You have Pirates. Probably universally considered the zenith of Disney Magic! An “E” Ticket if there ever was one! And on the other side of the coin you have the horse drawn carriage or the omnibus rolling down Main Street. An “A” Ticket if ever there was one.

    You cannot possibly charge (and that’s what we’re talking about in ticket differences) the same for riding on that bus as you could charge for the Pirates. Could you? NO!! But the experience, The Disney Experience, is absolutely the same! Same attention to detail, same immersive theme, same everything!! The only difference is the concept (big or little) itself. A resort, on the other hand, is a place to stay while in Disney. There’s no such thing as a smaller concept in spending the night!! You’re either spending the night or you’re not!!

    A better example might be Disney restaurants. One can be a fast food joint, and another could be fine dining. Both at vastly different price points (“A” ticket to “E” ticket!). But both should have the same level of theme, ambience and Disney magic! Real crystal chandeliers in both places!! At least, that’s the way Walt thought!!

    Does that make sense?
     
  9. Peter Pirate 2

    Peter Pirate 2 <font color=red>I may be a Disney curmudgeon but I

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2006
    Messages:
    2,839
    No, no, no. You're not caught up. Go back and check again.
     
  10. MassJester

    MassJester <br><img src="http://www.wdwinfo.com/dis-sponsor/i DIS Lifetime Sponsor

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2001
    Messages:
    2,725
    How do we know that? Not being snide, just curious.
     
  11. DVC-Landbaron

    DVC-Landbaron What Would Walt Do?

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2000
    Messages:
    1,861
    rantnnravin
    Ah!!

    Walt and the Chandelier!!

    You never heard the story? It goes to What Walt Wanted!! It is a marvelous story. Let me see if I can find it on an old thread. It was told WONDERFULLY!! But it’s going to take some time and it could be that it was lost during the great crash of 2000. If I can’t find it I’ll do my best to re-tell it.

    See ya later! I have research to do!!!



    (HOPE!!! HELP!!!!)
     
  12. DVC-Landbaron

    DVC-Landbaron What Would Walt Do?

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2000
    Messages:
    1,861
    Taken from this thread:
    http://disboards.com/showthread.php?t=28781&highlight=chandelier


    OK. I haven't told a Walt story in a long time (Alright. No eyeball rolls. It's not very long). I think it may clarify things:

    Seems there was a particular time in the building of Disneyland when money was especially tight. Roy was trying his absolute best to keep things under control. The banks were breathing down his neck, business investment were drying up and his personal bank account didn't look much better. While musing about his lot in life on this particular dreary day, he was handed an invoice. The invoice was for a chandelier for one of the fast food restaurants. It cost thousands of dollars. In 1954 it was a small fortune. Roy was fed up. Time to have it out with Brother Walt. He found Walt and went off on him. He told Walt that he'd never sell enough burgers to ever get a pay back. He said that it was frivolous and a waste. Walt, so the story goes, listened and tried to explain that it was his goal to give the guest something that he wouldn't get anywhere else in the world. And if someone, sitting eating his fast food, admired this chandelier and it added to their experience just a little bit, the company would get a bigger payback than could ever be noted on a balance sheet. Roy and Walt didn't talk for weeks after that. But Roy paid for the chandelier.


    OK! Back to real time. What’d ya think?
     
  13. hopemax

    hopemax Note to Self:

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2000
    Messages:
    5,611
    With what, my dear Baron?

    I'm also curious about YoHo's Excel spreadsheet. I want a copy. ;)

    Earlier in this thread, I was almost tempted to make a longish reply but I'm still debating if the knowledge gap has gotten too big, Disney has fallen to the point that I don't care what they do now, and my Disney discussion skills have gotten rusty. My E-ticket Magazines are still packed in the box from when we moved into our house in 2009, for goodness sake!

    You all have moved on from what I wanted to ramble on about. So I don't know.
     
  14. dwaters

    dwaters Mouseketeer

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2006
    Messages:
    381
    Yet Buzz is tiny in comparison to some of the egos on display in this thread.

    Not sure if you realize how condescending you come off.

    So, is the Cinderella Castle a decoration as well?
     
  15. rantnnravin

    rantnnravin No room in the suitcase? U can land a plane in it!

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2005
    Messages:
    1,582
    Sure Baron, what you say makes perfect sense...BBBBUUUUUUUUUUUUUTTT....

    You missed the very last ( and, in this case, most important) line of my post:

    and that's where the speculation must come in. What COULD they have done to provide consistency of experience with differing levels? What factors would make a "C-ticket" or "B-ticket" resort different from an "E-ticket"?
     
  16. hopemax

    hopemax Note to Self:

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2000
    Messages:
    5,611
    Alright, here's my thing with the 35 foot Buzz Lightyear?

    What's its purpose? Take the newest value Art of Animation. Now I have some issues with that resort, but I do like the Cars area. Guido & Luigi are my favorite. And I like the traffic cone cabanas and I like the cars. It's built to a scale to put you in the middle of their world.

    I could maybe get behind some sort of attempt to replicate Andy's House and Room. Put you in the middle of the Toy Story world where you are one of the other toys. But you don't accomplish that with a giant Buzz Lightyear. Unless you are building something to scale for one of Buster's fleas. Based on the scale of most of the pieces, I think we're supposed to be feeling more Honey, I Shrunk the Kids than Toy Story. But maybe we are supposed to be the flea.
     
  17. Peter Pirate 2

    Peter Pirate 2 <font color=red>I may be a Disney curmudgeon but I

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2006
    Messages:
    2,839
    :thumbsup2This made me truly laugh out loud and yes I'm laughing at my less than eloquent self (in comparison) as well.:lmao:
     
  18. Peter Pirate 2

    Peter Pirate 2 <font color=red>I may be a Disney curmudgeon but I

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2006
    Messages:
    2,839
    Now that is what I was waiting for but far less impassioned than I imagined. Nonetheless, thanks!:thumbsup2
     
  19. bcrook

    bcrook DIS Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2008
    Messages:
    4,045
    I didn't see that coming! Nice! I am enjoying the posts! Sadly, I have very little to offer, I am too embroiled in the horrors of MyMagic+, but that is a different thread (a long and wild one at that).

    But, I do have this story about my short tour of Pop Century last summer. My daughter and I wandered around the Art of Animation resort and didn't find it much to our liking. It still felt to much like a motel, and even though the pool was cool to look at, the shadeless sea of concrete drained me of any joy I might have found. We walked across the lovely bridge to Pop. I circled the buildings a little confused. What we didn't like were the "stockades" at the front to wait for the buses. Once again, endless concrete, winding keys, and those chains to keep everyone in place.

    It was such a shock from walking out of the Polynesian lush gardens onto the monorail! Or, sitting casually in the wooden huts at Kidani. We were sad by the visit, and vowed to never return.
     
  20. DVC-Landbaron

    DVC-Landbaron What Would Walt Do?

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2000
    Messages:
    1,861
    You are very welcome, My friend!!

    It is less impassioned because it is one paragraph out of a thread that is very, very, long and very, very impassioned!! Look it up! The link is at the top of my post. It'll bring back memories. You have a lot of posts in that thread.

    And I was... rather good, but I don't want to come off as a condescending egotist!!


    :crazy:
     
  21. MassJester

    MassJester <br><img src="http://www.wdwinfo.com/dis-sponsor/i DIS Lifetime Sponsor

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2001
    Messages:
    2,725
    It's a good story.
     

Share This Page