A bit confused

Discussion in 'Purchasing DVC' started by Jobelly, Feb 22, 2013.

  1. fortheloveofminnie

    fortheloveofminnie Earning My Ears

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    Here are a few points to consider:
    1) I think it's best to buy where you would most like to stay. For me, I love AKL and it just wouldn't be the same anywhere else so that's where I'm buying my points (resale). If it truly doesn't matter, buy SSR and save money.

    2)If you know what resale does and doesn't get you, then you should have no reservations about buying resale. Even my member guide told me he would buy resale if he were me. I am buying to stay at a DVC resort. Period. I'm not interested in using my points in any other way. Just use a major resale broker to safeguard your investment.

    3)As for how much to offer? Offer what you think it's worth. Check out the ROFR thread. I made MANY offers before I had one accepted. In fact, I offered $61/pt on a AKL contract listed at $75/pt. It was the last contract left to make an offer on through Fidelity that met my criteria. The sellers agreed to my price without so much as a counter offer. The right contract at the right price will come along if you're patient. (Mine still has to pass ROFR though!)

    Do your research and make sure you are happy with your purchase! Good Luck!
     
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  3. Caren90

    Caren90 DIS Veteran

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    On each one of my resale contracts (10 total) I was given a listing of all the current and future points available and this became part of the legal purchasing document. Therefore, if I did not receive the points listed, I would not be bound to the contract.

    Stephen
     
  4. Dean

    Dean DIS Veteran<br><a href="http://www.wdwinfo.com/dis

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    While issues happen, they aren't an innocent bystander in this process. I wouldn't put too much stock into this. The reality is unless they take your money and you don't get anything in return, the chances of being worse off than buying retail is non existent for all but very small packages.
     
  5. Jobelly

    Jobelly Earning My Ears

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    Thanks for all the reassurances for buying resale. I didn't imagine it was something that happened very often.
    Think I've won my case with hubby, he does love our holidays in Florida but also likes to go elsewhere so the fact we would probably only be able to go every two years is a plus to him. I know we could save money by not doing dvc and staying off site in cheaper accommodation but that's not what we want and we couldn't afford to pay OOP for 2 bedrooms in site.
    Now just to decide between SS and BCV, this is the hard part because I know I love BCV but I have the feeling I will love SS and was already looking to stay there next year. It worries me slightly though that it seems so unpopular, as though there might be something we're missing and we'll only see it when we get there. I know that's an argument for renting first but that's probably half the cost of the points by doing that. It's all a bit of a dilemma!
     
  6. zavandor

    zavandor DIS Veteran

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    SSR is not popular because it requires a similar number of points than other resorts, but:
    - the crescent lake resorts are in walking distance to two parks
    - BLT is in walking distance to MK
    - BWV, AKV and BLT have some views that are extremely difficult to book and very cheap on points
    - OKW has bigger rooms and is cheaper on points
    - SSR is so huge that the 11 months window is nearly useless

    SSR once had the treehouse villas, 3 bedrooms for the cost of 2, it increased its popularity, but they removed that advantage (now they cost more).
    So it's not that SSR is an ugly resort, simply there are advantages for the other resorts so that people want the 11 months advantage
     
  7. DannysMom

    DannysMom DIS Veteran

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    I agree it is not that SSR is not nice. But it is huge, so you can nearly always get a villa there. And fewer people find "close to DTD" as big an advantage as "walkable to xx park/s". More owner at SSR that want to stay at other resorts, means that if you are booking last minute, within 3 months or so, it will nearly always be SSR that has room.

    Sent from my iPad using DISBoards App, please excuse any typos or autocorrects!
     
  8. disbound09

    disbound09 Mouseketeer DVC Gold

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    The overall price makes SSR attractive. It is a great resort in itself, but not as close to the parks as some would want. I wish THV were a bit less. We have stayed in BC AK and SS before we bought and purchased SS because it was laid back and you got away from the hustle and bustle and more of a relaxed vacation atmosphere. All of resorts have a degree of desire that varies with users and their needs. We love SSR
     
  9. ELMC

    ELMC DIS Veteran

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    These are two mistakes that we see frequently on here. Sometimes they're made by someone who hasn't really taken a good look at the math and sometimes they're justifications that people need to reassure themselves that purchasing is the right move for them. Sometimes they're just mistakes.

    The fact of the matter is that you can afford to pay OOP for a 2 bedroom on site if you rent points. If you have the cash to pay for a DVC resale up front, then you definitely have cash to pay for that stay.

    Pertaining to your second quote, I encourage you to do the math behind renting and purchasing, and you will see that this statement is off. Of course it varies contract to contract depending on purchase price and other key variables, but typically one can rent points between 6-10 years before they "use up" all of the money that DVC would have cost them for that period. So please don't feel that you would be spending half your DVC budget if you rented points once. It's more like 10-16% and it might be money well spent if it saves you from buying a resort that you don't like. Good luck! :)
     
  10. gopfans

    gopfans Earning My Ears

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    I would really go see SSR (or anywhere) before you buy. I thought I would really not mind SSR when we stayed there but honestly it is my least favorite DVC. If you love BC I would buy there. Why not start off with the number of points you can afford and add on as you can afford to until you can accumulate enough points for the longer stay at BCV. You can stay at SSR on you BCV points and if you find you love it there, buy points there too at a lower cost. You can always do a split stay too. I wish we had understood that you can always add on points down the road when we had looked into DVC Years ago and hadn't waited until we could afford the max points we thought we needed to buy.
     
  11. Jobelly

    Jobelly Earning My Ears

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    ELMC, unfortunately we would be spending quite a bit as at $11 per point for 2 weeks in may it would be quite costly.
    I agree with everyone that it would be ideal to see SS but that wouldn't be until may 2014 and as I said the to stay would be high.
    I'm not that much of a risk taker but I've got a good feeling about SS. It looks like and airy and not that dissimilar to BC. We've looked to stay at AK in the past but I didn't like the look of it and sure enough when we went for a meal we weren't keen on it. I like the idea that SS is more relaxed and that being there for two weeks we can walk around more and try different pools. I also think as DS gets older the location to laser quest and the golf course will be good.
    I might be totally wrong of course and if we buy and hate it we're a bit stuck but I've put an offer in for a 300 point contract. Not sure we'll get in as I've went in lower after checking the thread about passing ROFR.
    I will let you know, and if we get it probably spend the next year praying we love the resort.
    Thanks again for all the help. First time on dis other than lurking and it's been really useful and friendly.
     
  12. ELMC

    ELMC DIS Veteran

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    I understand what the rental rates are, but I am a bit nervous that you are not taking the time to do the math. You can spend $11 per point to rent the points now, or you can spend $50-60 per point for purchase, plus closing costs, plus maintenance fees of $4.80+ for each of the next 40 years. Like I said before, renting points for one vacation will not be half of your DVC purchase price assuming that you are comparing the purchase of a contract that has points equal to the number that you would be renting. One option will cost you just short of $5,000 (assuming 2 weeks in a 1 BR). The 300 point contract you are bidding on will cost you between $17,000-20,000 this year, plus an additional $1,500+ each year going forward.

    Whether or not you would like the resort is a completely different issue.
     
  13. Dean

    Dean DIS Veteran<br><a href="http://www.wdwinfo.com/dis

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    As long as you truly know (by experience) that you value staying on property and have several stays at Moderate's or above, you should be OK. You mentioned you love BC, I presume you've stayed there and not just visited. Ideally new members will have sufficient Disney and DVC experience over several years with a number of Disney trips AND a comparable off property Timeshare experience to truly know (beyond emotion) that DVC is right for them. IMO it takes all 3 components to make a truly informed decision. Someone who has enough experience in 2 of the 3 areas can likely to OK most of the time.

    IMO far too many people make the assumption because they like staying on property that they won't like staying off property. I remember a recent post where someone's experience off property was a condo once and a timeshare stay some 20 years ago, that's simply not enough info to make an informed decision. We also see people who stayed off in a cheaper hotel and really enjoyed Disney and assume that they want to go year after year without sufficient track record to really know. IMO there are a number of very comparable off property timeshares that are, in some ways, better than DVC resorts. No one does theming like Disney and the location can't be beat but many actually prefer to stay off property when they visit Disney.

    As for buying now to allow part of your next trip to reduce your overall cost, it's likely not as much difference as you think. By the time you pay dues on 2 years of 300 points you're close to $3500 and you can figure that SSR will be a little cheaper in 2 years, maybe $3 per point, you're actual additional cost for that next trip is only in the range of $1200 extra. Still money that could reduce your overall investment but you could look at it as an insurance policy against not liking your current choices and/or if life happens.

    We all wish you well not matter how things work out, hopefully your bid will be accepted and you will love SSR.
     
  14. AquaDame

    AquaDame Are we there yet?

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    Do you feel that this is the proper thinking for all the DVC resorts..? It seems like the price per point that Disney raises year over year is more than $3 per point, isn't it? The price we were offered has already gone up $5 pp since that time (and was three months ago).

    I'm also still wondering about direct vs resale. I could honestly seeing us using our 160 points from time to time to do something different - go to a foreign country for a week, or stay at one of the partnered places. Would that benefit outweigh just renting out the points that year and using that money towards a hotel at a different place? Or is that benefit really something that shouldn't matter because it is no good anyway and we'd still want to get a different hotel? What places on property COULDN'T we stay at if we had bought resale? (Pointing me to the right thread for those questions would be helpful too.. I just can't seem to find it!)

    Thanks!
     
  15. Dean

    Dean DIS Veteran<br><a href="http://www.wdwinfo.com/dis

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    I'm assuming resale since that is the context of this discussion but I think the principles hold for every situation. That is the principle of waiting rather than making a bad choice. There is potentially more cost to waiting but it's better than rushing into something that may not work out and certainly better than being forced to retail to get things done quickly.

    As for retail vs resale and the limitations, IMO there are currently no limitations of consequence and the price difference has gotten much larger. The current restrictions are no Concierge Collection, DC, DCL or ABD. You're contractually guaranteed the right to reserve subject to availability at your home resort and for any club resorts. You'll continue to have some exchange options but it could be private and independent's only. IMO that's all you should buy for anyway. There are none of the options that are restricted that are both guaranteed and a good value, actually NONE are guaranteed. While there are a few POTENTIAL exchange options that are a good value, there aren't many and the chances of getting them are extremely small.

    Now for those that already own and won't use the points otherwise, you have to decide how to approach it. Renting is a good option for many and some decide to use the points they have anyway for items that may not get a great value. Others simply use the points for their trips and cash for the non DVC options. Their option of course and IMO, it's a much different playing field if you own already vs one looking to buy in. Sometimes what we see is we're discussing this topic in terms of buying in and those that already own and have used points, or are thinking about doing so, tend to get their feelings hurt. Personally I don't care what others do with their points within the rules/options but I do care if they have the info to make informed decisions.
     
  16. ELMC

    ELMC DIS Veteran

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    One thing to keep in mind is that your ability to trade out through RCI is the same regardless of whether you bought direct or resale. However, if you were planning on using your 160 points to exchange for a week of hotel stays within the Disney Collection, you might want to think again as that 160 points will probably only get you 2-3 nights.
     
  17. Jobelly

    Jobelly Earning My Ears

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    Elmc, you're right to say I need to look at the math again, so will do so.

    Dean, I am unsure what is meant but SSwill reduce in the next couple of years by $3, do you mean the resale value will go down by $3 so we would get it a little cheaper? I have been reading a long thread about resales maybe being restricted to their home resort only and this does have me concerned. I do think I will love SS and I feel in a lot of ways for our family it is a good resort for us (in some ways more than BC although I really love that resort ) part of the attraction of the DVC is that you can try other resorts and if that was taken away I don't think it is quite so appealing. The thought of even a couple of nights at another resort and then back to SS seems great just so you can experience all they have to offer.
    We have stayed at port orleans for a few nights years ago before kids and then we have stayed at vista cay and emerald island, both of which we loved before staying at BC which was amazing. So we do know we enjoy staying off site but staying on site does have many advantages for us.
     
  18. Dean

    Dean DIS Veteran<br><a href="http://www.wdwinfo.com/dis

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    Yes, I'm saying that resales are likely to be a little cheaper in a couple of years, since you'd said you'd put in an offer which sounded to be resale, I didn't spell that out and assumed that's what we were talking about.

    Personally I don't see how they can legally restrict ANY club resort to resale owners so I think this is NOT a valid concern. If you read the POS and FL Statue 721, this seems to me to guarantee access to any resort still in the club the same for all. It does not guarantee the access but that's true for ALL owners not just resale buyers. I don't think this is a concern that came from any credible source and is essentially an example of someone postulating it and then it took on a life of it's own.

    I believe that home resort at 11 months and club resorts at between 4 & 7 months are guaranteed options. I believe it's unlikely that RCI will go away (or a replacement) sufficiently that it's essentially guaranteed as well. Other than the BVTC option, I don't see much that can be removed that are current options. However, they could institute a VIP program and only count retail points and with that they could make changes that would affect resale buyers more than retail but it would also affect many retail buyers too. Things like extra fees waived for VIP, wait list benefits, etc. They could make it so you can't combine contracts for resale and they could instate a lot of other benefits that left resale buyers out. I see NO reason you should be concerned. However, one should only buy a resort they'll be comfortable staying at mosts trips because of the possibility of availability issues.
     
  19. Jobelly

    Jobelly Earning My Ears

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    Thanks for that reassurance Dean. I think SS is a resort that will fit more as my family become older because of the golf course and the closeness of DTD and it does sadden me that I may not get BCV for two weeks at the end of August but we may be able to get a few days before going onto SS. Of course although I hate to think about the kids getting older and not coming on holiday with us we will be able to go at less popular times then and need smaller accommodations and so may have more flexibility with other resorts.
     
  20. disneynutz

    disneynutz DIS Veteran DIS Lifetime Sponsor

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    We are an older family and we prefer the Epcot resorts, BWV and BCV. We own both with Epcot being our favorite park.

    SSR is a nice resort but we don't want to live there. DTD is nice for shopping/looking through the stores and maybe a meal but not a destination more than once or twice per vacation.

    :earsboy: Bill
     
  21. Dean

    Dean DIS Veteran<br><a href="http://www.wdwinfo.com/dis

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    One big advantage of having something in hand is you can wait list for BCV just in case even up until the last minute. Just don't WL the entire 2 weeks at one time as your chances of success will be dramatically reduced.
     

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