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Old 01-13-2004, 11:47 PM   #1
disneyberry
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OLD THREAD / Some info OUTDATED.....Points Transfer Rules 101 [updated 6/7/05]

Well, not exactly 101, since the official rules can be quite cumbersome to read through...
And, transferring points is probably one of the most complicated thing about DVC there is, so not sure how simple an explanation could be. Heh.

The first section below is the official written rules for points transfers. The second section is other info which I have learned about points transfers from fellow members of this board, and from speaking with Member Services.

I hope this is helpful to you all!
It's a good idea to understand the rules + limitations first before you do any transfers.
IMPORTANT: If the two members involved in the transfer have DIFFERENT USE YEARS, please please make sure to review tip "h" at the bottom of this post!


Transfer Rules from Multi-Site POS dated 11/2004, HOME RESORT RULES AND REGULATIONS dated 5/2004, Section II, Number 6.

"Transferring Home Resort Vacation Points Between Club Members.

Transfers allow a Club Member to assign all or a portion of his or her Home Resort Vacation Points to another Club Member. Transfers are subject to the following restrictions:
  1. Both Club Members must be current on their Annual Dues and monthly payments (if applicable), and any other outstanding balances, including, but not limited to, fees associated with any exchange programs, miscellaneous services booked by Member Services in connection with Club Member reservations, and any incidental charges and/or balances due in relation to DVC Resort stays, in order to give or receive a Transfer. Both Club Members must be closed in order to participate in a Transfer.
  2. All Transferred Home Resort Vacation Points retain the Use Year of the transferring Club Member and expire at the end of the transferring Club Member's Use Year, unless they are Banked.
  3. Once Banked, Transferred Home Resort Vacation Points will expire at the end of the Transferring Club Member's next Use Year, unless they are used. In addition, Transferred Home Resort Vacation Points cannot be un-Banked or returned to their original Use Year.
  4. The Club Member who is Transferring the Home Resort Vacation Points to another Club Member is still responsible for the Annual Dues payment on those Transferred Home Resort Vacation Points.
  5. Banked or Borrowed Home Resort Vacation Points may not be Transferred.
  6. Transferred Home Resort Vacation Points may not be Borrowed or returned to the Transferring Club Member.
  7. If a Transfer occurs between Club Members from different Home Resorts, the Transferred Home Resort Vacation Points retain all the reservation rights of the Transferring Member.
    • The recipient of the Transferred Home Resort Vacation Points may use them to make a reservation at the Transferring Member's Home Resort during the Home Resort Priority Period, or at other qualified DVC Resorts after the Home Resort Priority Period and any other applicable priority periods.
    • The recipient of the Transferred Home Resort Vacation Points would not be able to use the Trasnferred Home Resort Vacation Points at his or her Home Resort until the end of his or her Home Resort Priority Period and any other applicable priority periods.
  1. 8.Transfer requests may be made by phone and must be confirmed in writing, by mail, fax, or E-mail to Member Services. DVCMC will not assist Members in finding another party for a Transfer activity.
  2. 9.Club Members are expressly prohibited from receiving compensation for engaging in any Transfer activity.
  3. 10.During a given Use Year, a Club Member may, per membership, perform only one transfer transaction. (Unverified wording)
  4. 11.Only Club Members who have closed on their purchase agreement are eligible to transfer Home Resort Vacation Points."

Just to be clear, the above 11 rules are OFFICIAL, copied from the Multi-Site POS. the tips listed below this line are unofficial policies I learned from fellow DISers and also from correspondence with various MS CMs

Other implications from the above set of rules, and information passed along to me from Member Services regarding "unofficial" Transfer rules:
  1. Transfers can only occur during your current Use Year and your next Use Year. For example, with a Sep UY, today 6/7/05 you could transfer into or out of your 9/2004 or 9/2005 Use Years. In other words, you can transfer points that you haven't "received" yet. When you are working with future Use Year points, make sure to request that a Manual Transfer be done.
  2. The recipient of Transferred Points has the ability to Bank those points. Technically, they are supposed to retain the original Use Year of the Transferring Club Member, however in practice, this does not seem to always be the case.
  3. MS clarified the "per membership" phrase in rule 10 above. A Membership is identified by a unique Membership Number. Individual contracts (such as add-ons) are not treated separately if they are under one Membership Number.
  4. Transfers are only processed immediately if the transferrer and recipient are in the same Year of their Use Year. (For Ex. if done today, a transfer from Feb05 UY to Oct05 UY is immediate, but from Dec04 UY to Apr05 UY needs to be done manually.) This is the only time that an automated Transfer Confirmation Number is generated. All other Transfers have to be done manually, and can take 1 to 3 days to be completed.
  5. MS's systems have a hard time tracking the Home Resort attribute. This means that if you own OKW, and had someone transfer BCV points to you, the points would take on your Home Resort and "become" OKW points. This glitch is supposedly being fixed "soon", but it has been years and still the glitch exists. It can work for you or against you depending on where you want the 11mo booking window.
  6. When it comes to Points Transfers between Multiple Memberships of a Single Owner (i.e. if you own 2 different Use Years), MS has "considerably more flexibility" (alternatively "significant latitude") with the transfer rules. For instance, there have been cases reported here where MS was willing to move banked or borrowed points around between Memberships if they are both owned by the same owner.
  7. Current (not Borrowed and not Banked) points that are in a Holding Account may also be Transferred. However, the points will go into a Holding Account under the recipient's membership.
  8. IMPORTANT: If the Transferrer and Recipient do not have matching Use Years, then the Recipient may not have a full year (12mos) of use out of the Transferred Points. This is because when a Transfer is performed, MS' system cannot track the Originating Member's UY, so they will arbitrarily choose a UY in the Recipient's account to put the points into. Recent (spring 2005) experiences posted here on the DISboards indicate that MS might follow the following guideline when deciding which UY to put the points into: "If the Recipient is 6 months or less into their current UY, then the points go into their current UY. If the Recipient is beyond 6 months, MS will put the points into the following UY." If you are the Recipient, and want more control over which UY the transferred points go into, please remember to specify which Use Year you want the points Transferred into. Example: Transferrer has a Sep UY, Recipient has a Apr UY. If the transfer is done today Jun05, and the Transferror wants to Transfer out Sep05 points, then the Recipient has a choice to receive points into their Apr05 UY (making the points only valid from 9/1/05 to 3/31/06) OR their Apr06 UY (making the points only valid from 4/1/06 to 8/31/06).
  9. MS does not charge any transaction fee for doing a Points Transfer.
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Link to old DVC Points Transfer 101 Thread
Sorry! Too busy to update this old 2005 info.

Last edited by CarolMN; 07-18-2013 at 10:08 AM. Reason: 6/3/08: Formatting 6/7/05: Newer POS confirms same transfer rules + Members adviced to pay attention when transferring points with different home resorts
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Old 01-14-2004, 12:00 AM   #2
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Thank you.:D
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Old 01-14-2004, 07:41 AM   #3
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A valiant effort but unfortunately, or maybe fortunately, there are many exceptions and variations as to how this is in function. For example, many of the rules break down or have exceptions for multiple contracts of a single member. It also depends on who you talk to. I had wondered about the borrowing aspect as I have not seen that in writing. My guess is you could even borrow them if you tried as the original rule only said they couldn't be banked and the new rule allows for borrowing.
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Old 01-14-2004, 09:03 AM   #4
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Wow Disneyberry! What a lot of work! It seems so complicated and confusing...but I printed it out for further study! Between figuring this out and learning about World Passport exchanges, my head is spinning!!!
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Old 01-14-2004, 10:53 AM   #5
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i just remembered one more very important thing i learned from MS about transfers.
can't believe i left it out before.
anyway, i substituted it for "h." in the second list, and pushed the original "h." down to "i.".

btw, Dean, are you referring to rules that are newer than Apr03?
because #6 listed above clearly states that you CANNOT borrow points that were transferred into your account.
also, you mention exceptions when it comes to multiple accounts by a single owner. yes! this is why i quoted the phrases you so often use "significant latitude" "considerably more flexible"

i myself have not had experience with the multiple memberships by single owner, so it's up to people like you to give us advice and tips on that. thanks!

as for "it depends on who you talk to".
i personally believe that is because MS agents are not really that well trained in the protocols and procedures involved in points transfers.
the few times i've done a points transfer, i have had to explain something to the agent that they disagreed with. then when i insist they check with a manager, they come back and tell me "you're right" heh.
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Old 01-14-2004, 11:27 AM   #6
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There has been some debate if dvc allows renting points. The general conclusion is it is not expressly forbidden in small doses.

However, regarding item nine, it looks like transferring points for financial consideration is expressly forbidden.

I would've thought if renting was kinda o.k. that transferring would be fine.

I've heard transferring parties and ms threeway a call to accomplish transfer. It feels ms is assisting the financial transaction.

And if a dvc member violates number nine what are the consequences. I had though transferring to my account occassionally would be better than an add on that might not be needed in the future. If we take a second vacation we will need more points.
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Old 01-14-2004, 11:35 AM   #7
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chips, i believe Rule#9 has been around since the beginning.

our own DVC Rent/Trade Board FAQ also talks about it.

we've never heard about anyone being "caught" or penalized for breaking Rule#9.

edit: drusba provides a very good explanation below regarding accepting money for a points transfer.

Last edited by disneyberry; 02-07-2004 at 03:37 PM.
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Old 01-14-2004, 06:30 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by disneyberry
btw, Dean, are you referring to rules that are newer than Apr03?
because #6 listed above clearly states that you CANNOT borrow points that were transferred into your account.
The last POS I have is from before this policy was changed in 2000, I think it's the spring 2000. I dont believe it addresses the borrowing part only the banking as transfers were not able to be banked until the fall of 2000 I think it was. Maybe you have something that specifically says transferred points can't be borrowed but I'd want to see it in writing rather than just take MS word for it. This is the type of situation where you'll get 9 answers from 8 different people. Thanks for the work involved.
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Old 01-14-2004, 07:21 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dean
I'd want to see it in writing rather than just take MS word for it.
Dean, i think you misunderstood my original post.
section 1, where there are 11 numbered rules, that is copied from the July03 POS word for word. that is why i was confused and asked you if you had seen a newer POS. because i didn't realize that you thought the entire list of rules was just something that MS told me.
the second section was just me trying to be helpful, passing along what i learned from MS. so, yes, it's possible that the things i mentioned in section2 are not the "actual" rules. hence the word "unofficial".
however, the first section is actually the exact wording of the POS.
hope this clears up the confusion. sorry, sometimes i don't write that concisely.

Last edited by disneyberry; 01-14-2004 at 07:31 PM.
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Old 01-14-2004, 08:44 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by disneyberry
Dean, i think you misunderstood my original post.
section 1, where there are 11 numbered rules, that is copied from the July03 POS word for word. that is why i was confused and asked you if you had seen a newer POS. because i didn't realize that you thought the entire list of rules was just something that MS told me.
the second section was just me trying to be helpful, passing along what i learned from MS. so, yes, it's possible that the things i mentioned in section2 are not the "actual" rules. hence the word "unofficial".
however, the first section is actually the exact wording of the POS.
hope this clears up the confusion. sorry, sometimes i don't write that concisely.
Thanks, guess I need to get an updated copy. I just hate to call them for one every year and try to get one when I have a use, like now I guess.
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Old 01-18-2004, 12:42 PM   #11
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From above:

"9. Club Members are expressly prohibited from receiving compensation for engaging in any Transfer activity."

"However, regarding item nine, it looks like transferring points for financial consideration is expressly forbidden. "


You need to wade through the legalese to truly understand number 9:

1. It does not prohibit renting when there is no physical transfer of points from one account to another, i.e., you can use your points to make a ressie in another's name.

2. Points are legally deemed to have no intrinsic value but merely represent your actual ownership interest in the the property. Thus, legally you cannot actually give a dollar value to the points.

3. Nevertheless, you can still do a rental via a transfer. All you need to do is agree to rent the property interest represented by the points and then simply agree to complete that rental transcation by transfering points. Thus, legally you have not officially given the points a dollar value but instead the compensation applies to the rental of the property interest. A purpose of the clause is to assure Disney, who actually carries out the transfer of points, cannot be sued for any money based on the value of points transfered if something goes wrong with the rental.

4. Clause 9 and all its predecessors from the beginning of DVC is carefully worded to prohibit compensation for "engaging in any transfer activity." It is designed mainly to prevent someone from setting up a profit making business as a broker for the transfer of points who would be "engaging in transfer activity" for compensation.
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Old 08-27-2005, 01:33 AM   #12
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Renting Points

Can a non-member rent points from this group?
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Old 08-27-2005, 09:09 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpaul
Can a non-member rent points from this group?
Since a non-member has no account into which points could be transferred, no - a non-member cannot rent transferred points. Points themselves have no value and are a worthless commodity to anyone except a DVC Member, who has the ability to actually use the points to make a reservation.

HOWEVER ... a non-member can rent a reservation made using points from a DVC member. You can post the resort, room-type and dates you are interested in renting on our Rent/Trade Board and see if a member can assist. You could also respond to an offer to rent posted by a DVC member.
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Old 12-06-2005, 11:33 PM   #14
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I am a little confused about the UY of transferred points. I transferred points to someone before and remember them being very specific about what UY they wanted my points to go to. But now I am in a position where I need to borrow some points, and MS has told me that my UY doesn't matter, the transferred points will remain with their original UY after the transfer. Has there been a rule change, or are they just now figuring out how to track everything better? In the original post of the thread it reads like I am at the mercy of whoever is helping me from MS at the time of transfer as to how they want to enforce the rules, have I read that wrong? Doesn't seem like a good way to run a multimillion dollar operation. What am I missing?
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Old 12-07-2005, 06:45 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foxinsox
I am a little confused about the UY of transferred points. I transferred points to someone before and remember them being very specific about what UY they wanted my points to go to. But now I am in a position where I need to borrow some points, and MS has told me that my UY doesn't matter, the transferred points will remain with their original UY after the transfer. Has there been a rule change, or are they just now figuring out how to track everything better? In the original post of the thread it reads like I am at the mercy of whoever is helping me from MS at the time of transfer as to how they want to enforce the rules, have I read that wrong? Doesn't seem like a good way to run a multimillion dollar operation. What am I missing?
The written rules say the points retain their original use year and home resort priority. However, computer tracking limitations do not allow either to happen easily and the default is that they usually go to your use year and home resort. Thus unless there has been a recent system change, it does matter and you should specify.
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