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Old 01-09-2004, 07:00 PM   #1
King Triton
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Cool Old Epcot is missed

If we could only bring back the old Epcot. I am sad to say Epcot has lost most of it's charm. I believe there is a huge silent majority who believe this - the true Disney fans. What has happen to those cool dark rides of the past? What made Epcot so special was Horizons, World of Motion, and the original Imagination ride. And now I hear rumors Spaceship Earth is going to be removed! Say it's not so!

Without a doubt, the old Epcot was so much better than Epcot today.

The problem: Michael Eisner wanted to remove those dark rides and replace them with thrill rides. He wanted to compete with Universal Studies and attract more teenagers. Big mistake! Disney attracts it's own audience - they come for the magic. Those who want roller coasters will still go to Universal Studios. Now I'm not saying don't build thrill rides at Disney - I love them too. But don't TAKE OUT THE COOL DARK RIDES to do so. Why can't we have both? If you want Mission Space, then build it in a new location - DON'T REMOVE HORIZONS!! What was Disney thinking? This is another reason why Michael Eisner needs to retire.

The solution: Build more Disney magic dark rides. Better yet, you can use the formula - half dark ride and the other half thrill ride. Just like the Journey to the Center of the Earth ride at Tokyo DisneySea. It appears the Mt. Everest ride at AK will have this balance and that is good news. To save Epcot, we need more dark rides. We can take out the Wonders of Life Pavillion and the Living Seas to make room.

Epcot is so different now. Someday I'll tell my grandkids that Epcot used to be a magical place. As you can tell, I'm a big Disney Dark ride fan.

Do you think Disney needs to bring back more dark rides?

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Old 01-09-2004, 08:06 PM   #2
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Holy smokes! My thoughts exactly!
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Old 01-09-2004, 08:21 PM   #3
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I totally agree! My favorite ride anytime we go to Disney now is Spaceship Earth. I love that ride so much. I really get into it. My husband disagrees with me though, he says he is tired of it. I tell him I don't understand why, I only made him ride it 3 times on our last trip!
But, seriously, I know what you mean. I agree the old Epcot was so much better. They can definately take out Wonders of Life pavilion and Living Seas. I haven't even been in them the last 3 times I have been to Epcot.
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Old 01-09-2004, 09:27 PM   #4
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I along with DD (4 1/2 years old) love Spaceship EArth. She HAS to go on it when we arrive and leave Epcot.
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Old 01-10-2004, 05:58 AM   #5
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I am in complete agreement about the rides--in Epcot especially, but elsewhere in WDW as well.
Unfortunately, people like me (us?) are not in the majority. Disney is heading along the teen thrill ride path and not likely to ever open a new dark ride. We'll be lucky if they even keep the ones they have left!!
So all we'll have is the memories of Horizons, World of Motion, etc.
But at least we can say that. Think of all the folks coming along who will never have had the chance to experience them. Now THAT'S a pity!!
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Old 01-10-2004, 07:54 AM   #6
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I agree. I prefer World of Motion over Test Track even though I enjoy TT. I haven't ridden Mission:Space but Horizons was one of my favourites. Also, the original Journey was far better.

I'm not sure why they are going to thrill rides so much. Probably due to studies and focus groups. It's too bad, as it precludes many people from riding.
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Old 01-10-2004, 08:54 AM   #7
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Disney's audience is changing. I think that the Epcot mix is just about right. I visit every time I'm at WDW. My least favorite rides at Epcot are the new Imagination (Though I admit it's cute), and (believe it or not) Spaceship Earth because of the creaking and groaning. I never really enjoyed GM's World of Motion either and I am happy it's gone.

Those were focused on Families as the audience. Grandma and Jr. could ride together. We still have the Land, Imagination, SE, the World of Energy, the Mexican Boat ride (Tho god knows it needs to be updated), the shops and shows. They are simply building the faster, more thrilling rides to appeal to a wider variety of people. I think, as long as they are quality attractions, that its a GOOD thing for Epcot.

I am looking forward to going back, and taking my kids, who will agree to go because they can jump on Mission Space. Thats a big win for me, and a big win for Disney. I will give it a whirl too, and if I don't like it, then I can go right next door to Test Track, which is a ride that I love love love.

As for not building dark rides......you must mean the slow moving "omni-mover" kinds of rides. Because I would consider Soaring over California a dark ride that's right up there with the best that Disney has ever created. It's pure Disney Magic.....and I don't catch myself saying that much anymore. I would consider Test Track, Buzz, TOT, Winnie the Pooh, Exepedition Everest, and others all dark rides. They just have different ride mechanisms. And I like the variety just fine. My problem is when they take out rides of any sort and put in shops (Pressler loved that), or when what they build smacks of cheapness (Dinorama). That, to me, is what's wrong with what Disney does today sometimes. When they replace imagination with easy or cheaper.

And again, let me put in a plug for Soarin'. You will love that experience. Even though they took out the singing veggies to do it. And it's at EPCOT, the best theme park in the world.

Just please Disney, fix the Living Seas.
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Old 01-10-2004, 11:19 AM   #8
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I know alot of people who don't go to WDW because its the same ol, same ol. One mans classic is anothers man yawn. You have to change, you have to keep people walking in. Why haven't they changed Space Mt or Small World, because people go and love it. COP and Horizons were no longer viable attractions, trust me if they had been they would still be there.Do your local businesses stay open because of nostalgia or profit? Go to a museum if you want these things, not a resort.WDW is in it to make money, as any business should be. I loved those attractions also but shift happens!
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Old 01-10-2004, 11:24 AM   #9
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Yea, but we can still wax nostalgic, can't we? Oh please...let us!
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Old 01-10-2004, 11:41 AM   #10
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Disney is falling pray to the thrill of movement. Thrill rides seem to be thought of as great because they involve some sort of fast physical movement, speed, jerks, drops and spins. You can thrill the mind with visuals and story and include mild thrills. Look at The Haunted Mansion and Pirates, Roger Rabbits cartoon spin ( where you don't have to spin if you don't want to). Look at Splash Mountain. It does leave out some but all the seniors and most of the kids in my family love it. All it takes is imagination to get the youngsters, teens and seniors in on the action together. Disney seem to be abandoning the great visual thrills and sets and sounds and music that they used to do. If they bank on closing the long dark rides and replacing them with short speed and movement oriendted rides I think their fortunes will decrease.
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Old 01-10-2004, 02:57 PM   #11
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I wish I could remember exactly where I heard it, probably on the Learning channel, but there was a show on thrill rides, the ones that throw you around, go upside down, jerk you back and forth, and so on. They had a group of doctors, orthopeadic surgeons and neurologists, and they all had concerns that these types of rides were going to cause a lot of problems down the road for folks who ride them a lot. Particularly with the back and the head. The say that unfortunatley, problems will not show up right away, but will years from now. They claim they are only now having studies done regarding damage to the joint, muscle,nerves,and back. and fear there will be a great number of people with serious health problems years from now. Something to think about, I guess.
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Old 01-10-2004, 08:17 PM   #12
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I miss the Epcot of old too I was really disappointed in Imagination when we were there in June. I do love Spaceship Earth. I tried to explain the rides of old to my Ds9 but it was really hard. Epcot just didn't have the same "magic" it did before. The new rides are ok but they are just not the same. I know things always have to change, but sometimes I think they should just be left alone. (Figment should have been left alone! I loved the original but am not so crazy about the new ride. I was fortunate enough to find a site with video of the old ride to show my Ds. He said the old one looked better.)
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Old 01-10-2004, 08:36 PM   #13
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I had not been to WDW in about 18 years, since right around when EPCOT originally opened. The first time I returned, I was disappointed in some of the changes in the rides, and also disappointed in the lack of change in others.

I loved the original Figment ride and am now curious why they changed it to this annoying, cheesy ride? There were other rides that I vaguely remember enjoying, that are not longer there. (I was 10 the first time around)

As for the ones I wish they would change...

Norway and Mexico are soooooo boring! I wish they would make something with a little bit of zing to it. And while my fiancee absolutely loves Spaceship Earth as it stands, I cannot wait until it ceases being an advertisement for AT&T and becomes a rollercoaster (as is rumored), or at the very least, something that seems technologically advanced, as e-mail and webchat have been around for several years already.

Just my two cents on the whole thing.
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Old 01-11-2004, 05:16 AM   #14
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I completely agree with you. I cannot do coasters at all, but I love dark rides and simulators. Have to admit I love Mission Space (to me it is not a thrill ride because it is not a coaster), and Dinosaur, especially before they tamed it and renamed it. Horizons and the original Imagination were wonderful and I miss them.
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Old 01-11-2004, 08:29 AM   #15
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Sorry. I'm on the other side of this argument. The whole point of Epcot (Experimental Prototype Community of Tomorrow) is to have guests to experience the future... that's "Tomorrow" not "Yesterday". IMO it's a tall order, but they have to revise/refresh their rides, to remain true to this vision (which is Walt's visions, not Eisner's remember). With rapid advancements in technology, both ride technology and that which Epcot promotes, these old rides become dated (irrelevant) very quickly. In fact, I saw a documentary a while ago where a Disney imaginer suggested that about Horizon. The ride couldn’t keep up.

We do ride Spaceship earth every time we're at Epcot (twice/yr), not because it's a great ride, but because it's a comforting icon. (and it's a fast ride line and the air conditioning is great ). However, we not attracted to Epcot by these old rides, though. My kids enjoy new experiences that they can relate to….Mission:Space, Test Track, etc, and WDW gets my money because these new rides.
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