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Old 03-27-2003, 12:28 PM   #31
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on a positive note

At least with the wait list this helps to rectify this problem such that when the ressie is let go someone else will get it

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Old 03-27-2003, 12:38 PM   #32
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As has been pointed out, members make reservations they may never use all the time. This does tie up inventory. Do you view this as a problem?

So long as members work within the confines of the system, they should be free to do as they please. Members spend a lot of $$$ on points and I can't fault anyone for making legal reservations within the system to accomodate their needs. That is not rudeness. That is the way the system is designed.

If one of those needs should be to generate some extra cash for points they will not be able to use, they should be able to make whatever reservations their points will allow, even if those reservations are for someone else's use.

I had a quick question about an earlier comment on the price per point for rentals. Earlier someone said points shoud not be rented for 'profit', but should only be rented for the cost of dues. How on earth could someone consider anything in excess of dues as being profit. I don't know about you all, but we dropped tens of thousands of $$$, exclusive of any dues, on the points we own.
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Old 03-27-2003, 02:19 PM   #33
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Mark this date on the calendar.....

I agree with Rich.....
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Old 03-27-2003, 02:42 PM   #34
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Why? How would this possibly matter to anyone? Who cares who else is staying there. Do you know all 60,000 members and their families?
Of course I don't know all 70,000 members. There are quite a few reasons, top on my list: shrinkage from non members, which we pay for as members and because of this shrinkage we now have lost some of the nice things, like placemats, coasters, napkins, etc. We now have to call for hand mixers, something that was in the unit before. I am sure that members contribute to the shrinkage, but, not to the degree someone without a vested interest does.
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Old 03-27-2003, 02:55 PM   #35
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Like it or not, agree or not, this whole thread/discussion is essentially moot. (It's fun for me to read everyone's opinions, though).

The documents that all members sign at purchase specifically state that members "may sell, rent, transfer or will their ownership interest". My dictionary says that when may is used with other verbs (like rent or sell), it means that it is allowed.

The only caveats to the above are:

1). DVD's ROFR and

2). the fact that those who attempt to resell or rent their interest would compete with DVD for buyers and renters at at substantial competitive disadvantage.

There is no limit to renting other than availability and the other booking rules that apply to all members.

Disney cannot unilaterally change the contract specifications -even if they wanted to!

My opinion (I consider the above fact, LOL):

I will never understand why some think that renting hurts other members. I have to book day by day to get the very popular time that we prefer to go and have always been able to book my first choice at my home resort. Those who rent points must do the same if they want to rent out the "popular" time. To me, those who rent are just other members who may want to stay at the same time I do.

Renters may "hurt" those who do not call/plan 11 months ahead, but renters do not and can not prevent a member from using the 11 month window. I have trouble understanding why anyone would assume that if there were no renters that they would get what they want when they don't use the 11 month window. How can they know that other members who want to stay at the same time they do won't use the 11 month window and get the time that they wanted (but didn't call for at the 11 month window)? DVC reservations are subject to availability on a first come, first served basis (within the booking windows). As long as a member follows the booking rules, it makes no difference to me what he/she chooses to do with her points.
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Old 03-27-2003, 03:25 PM   #36

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"I recall last spring seeing a number of posts offering e.g. "300 BCV points for rent", obviously points they never intended to use for themselves."

I wouldn't be too quick to judge. I can think of several good reasons why someone would have purchased points for their own use and become unable to use them: Diagnosis of a serious illness in a family member that would require extended treatment; a business crisis that makes the payment of dues a real crisis; family disagreements so that a vacation together just doesn't seem like a great idea right now; a family member being called up to military duty. In any of those cases, a family vacation might not be at the top of someone's priority list, and renting the points seems perfectly legitimate.
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Old 03-27-2003, 03:50 PM   #37
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. I am sure that members contribute to the shrinkage, but, not to the degree someone without a vested interest does.
This widely held belief that someone who had the wherewithal to slap down their 10% downpayment is innately more likely to be good and honest is pretty ridiculous. By the same token, I'm always hearing certain dvc'ers carping about what being a member entitles them to and how they wished Disney would give them more stuff. Maybe some members in the past thought being a member "entitled" them to bring home coasters and placemats. Where am I pulling this completely unfair conjecture? Out of my rear-end? Yes! Much where we're getting the oft-repeated belief that renters and cash customers are more likely to be responsible for theft and damage.

Gail, I'm sorry to jump on you, but I see that assertion a lot without anything, anything, anything to back it up other than wishful thinking.
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Old 03-27-2003, 04:05 PM   #38
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It's not like the person renting the points is rubbing their hands together saying, "He,He, let's see how much inventory I can hold up so that other members can't get their ressies."
As long as they are within the guidelines, it's really no one else's business. Some may feel it is, or that it affects other member's ability to make ressies, but that's the risk we all take when we make a ressie. It's not always guaranteed that we'll get the resort/time that we want.
There are worse things to get our panties in a bunch over. At least most of us can take vacations. Our armed forces aren't exactly on a picnic. But I'll bet any of them who are members wouldn't care when they got to go or what resort they got to stay at, as long as they could go and be with their families/friends.

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Old 03-27-2003, 04:13 PM   #39
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WOW - using the word "immoral" to describe the renting of vacation property!

I can think of a lot of "immoral" things going on in the world right now - renting timeshares doesn't make the list however.

I would think a big believer in free-market economics would have no problem with the perfectly legal renting of property...
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Old 03-27-2003, 04:25 PM   #40
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Way to go Jen- How did the "horrible" renters and cash customers end up getting blamed in this thread. I just became a DVC member after 10 faithful years as a decent "cash customer." I will never regret my decision to buy in but I hope I never become a DVC snob or trash people like I have seen here. I love the Disboards for tips and information but I cant believe some things I read in here. (And no I dont plan to rent out my new points but I purchased with the confidence that if I ever needed to I could). Now can we hear more about rooms and pools- enough is enough!
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Old 03-27-2003, 04:30 PM   #41
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Originally posted by Jen D
This widely held belief that someone who had the wherewithal to slap down their 10% downpayment is innately more likely to be good and honest is pretty ridiculous.

Much where we're getting the oft-repeated belief that renters and cash customers are more likely to be responsible for theft and damage.

Gail, I'm sorry to jump on you, but I see that assertion a lot without anything, anything, anything to back it up other than wishful thinking.
While there is no SCIENTIFIC evidence to support people who have no vested interest in a property caring less for it, those of us who have rented vacation homes certainly can attest that as a general rule, renters certainly don't care for things as well as owners.

That said, our contract allows us to rent. It's unfortunate but that's what the contract says. I don't see how we can realistically change it. I do believe that the "spirit" of the DVC concept is for the units to be used by members with occassional renting and not for the units to be rented out repeatedly with the intention of making money.


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Old 03-27-2003, 04:35 PM   #42
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This thread is starting to get "good"....who needs the Debate Board.
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Old 03-27-2003, 04:46 PM   #43
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Some people!!

I guess I am the guilty one that started this whole thread with my question about renting points here is my 2 cents.

1) I don't understand why some of you think that because my family is renting points we have climbed out of the bottom of the gutter, cannot be trusted, and are not worthy to have the same privileges the rest of you have. Renting points I believe is a good deal, but we will be paying for those points.

2) Why we are not DVC members…… My husband and I are relatively young, and my husband is in school getting his MBA. We have one two year old, and just don’t have the $15,000 to drop into a timeshare this year, and refuse to go into debt for it. So far we have saved $6,000 for our DVC membership, so in the next two years you will see this “renter” become a member anyway. Before making that investment, my husband feels better about renting some points and staying there first before we sign on the dotted line.

3) When I become an owner I will absolutely rent out my points when I am unable to use them. This is how free enterprise works.

4) The issue of people getting mad at those that are charging $11 a point to make money off renters is ridicules. At $11 a point I don’t think anyone is really "making" money here. I am however willing to pay a premium for someone that has enough point to make my reservations work. I don’t work for free and I don’t expect the person I am renting from to take their time to make calls and set up my reservations without getting compensated somehow. At $11 a point I feel I am getting a great deal.

5) Because this kind person is allowing us to rent points, we will be able to provide a much deserved vacation to some family members who have had A LOT of hardships this past year, and need a little cheering up. They have never had the opportunity to visit WDW and we are grateful we can provide that opportunity. Because we are paying all of the expenses for 6 adults and 3 children including a 3 night cruise at the end of their stay, the only way we could afford it was with a villa.

Everyone has their reasons for renting points, and renting out their own points. I’m glad that DVC gives us the option to do what we want.
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Old 03-27-2003, 05:15 PM   #44
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I'll agree with half of what Rich is trying to say.

I don't care if a member books ten rooms with their points, even if at a later date they need to cancel one,some or all of them. If they reserved them with the INTENTION of using them, for friends,families or whoever- no problem,they have the right to do that. What does bother me, and I assume Rich, is that this renter booked two rooms with NO INTENTION of using both. Sure,the canceled room will go to someone on a waitlist, but being on a waitlist is nerveracking. Do you book airline flights hoping the list comes thru,are your vacation dates flexible with your employer, and so on. People like certainty in their lives.

I am not a renter and can't see myself ever being one, but I'm not opposed to others doing so when the need arises.I also feel people should rent full weeks,but we know that won't happen. I feel in this case the renter was inconsiderate to other members.

PS:Addie, I don't think anyone- at least I don't- have a problem with rentee's. You are simply someone looking for a good deal, which is what we all do.

Last edited by KNWVIKING; 03-27-2003 at 05:22 PM.
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Old 03-27-2003, 05:17 PM   #45
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I've never understood what difference it makes. The owner has the points to use, they make the reservation. Whether it's for them, a friend, family member or a renter, it's their points to use as they see fit.

And I strongly disagree with the assertion that renters/cash customers are the reason that certain items are no longer provided. I don't go along with the train of thought that an owner has a different perspective about the amenities than a non-owner.

Very little of the DVC resorts are booked through CRO/WDTC. First, there's usually very little available, and second, they're quite expensive compared to the conventional resorts.

That leaves the vast majority of rooms being used by members, with a small percentage of that being rented out.

I don't blame the renters for being insulted when it's implied that they're stealing from the units.

Sad to say, but with most of the bookings being used by members, logic will tell you that they were the ones who took home some "souvenirs."
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