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Old 07-20-2014, 10:55 AM   #61
rteetz
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Originally Posted by Suvadoo View Post
According to a friend of mine who owns DVC, there is never availability at other resorts. So they have to remain at their home resort. On the other hand Disney has DVC rentals available at all DVC properties, if you pay for it. Also, if you own DVC free dining is not available to you. You are paying $5000 for your trip, but you don't mention length of stay and you're including dining and airfare in your total cost. But what is the actual price of your lodging? I think it would be more accurate to multiply your lodging by 50 years and then compare it with DVC.
DVC doesn't get free dining because they are getting a "deal" from disney already they are not going to give them another one disney doesn't do that. We are staying for 6 days 5 nights. I believe lodging was over 1500. I have friends that own DVC as well and they go at least once a year sometimes three. They own at BLT and sometimes can't even get in there so they have to stay elsewhere.

Now back to your first statement if disney adds more DVC to resorts than more availability will open up. That also means disney will sell more DVC too.
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Old 07-20-2014, 11:01 AM   #62
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Not this again. Where's Monkey Mouse?
I'm sorry, but I don't understand your remark. Is it wrong to ask for a comparison of apples to apples? Does a DVC membership include airfare and dining? If so, sign me up immediately!
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Old 07-20-2014, 11:04 AM   #63
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DVC doesn't get free dining because they are getting a "deal" from disney already they are not going to give them another one disney doesn't do that. We are staying for 6 days 5 nights. I believe lodging was over 1500. I have friends that own DVC as well and they go at least once a year sometimes three. They own at BLT and sometimes can't even get in there so they have to stay elsewhere.

Now back to your first statement if disney adds more DVC to resorts than more availability will open up. That also means disney will sell more DVC too.
So wouldn't it be more accurate to multiply the 1500 x 50 years and then compare that with the cost of DVC?
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Old 07-20-2014, 01:08 PM   #64
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So wouldn't it be more accurate to multiply the 1500 x 50 years and then compare that with the cost of DVC?
But you still have airfare costs with DVC unless you drive then you have gas costs so travel costs should be in there as well.
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Old 07-20-2014, 01:24 PM   #65
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In hindsight, it might actually have been postive for Disney if Comcast had been successful with the merger. At the time it was happening, I was thinking it would be a disaster. But given Comcast's willingness to put lots of cash into Universal, we may have had a much different Walt Disney World today with investments in new attractions in the theme parks.
There has been concern expressed on the part of Florida lawmakers if another company could be trusted with the Reedy Creek Improvement District the way Disney has.

Quite frankly, with Comcast's reputation of not really giving darn about their (cable) customers, I'm not sure they could be trusted with the powers of a municipality / special district.

So, what IF Comcast couldn't grease the lawmakers hands enough to get approval for constructive transfer of the District? How would WDW do as a standalone entity with no pipeline to the content side of the business? No access to the capital / bond rating of the mothership? Would the lost of reliable income throw the whole Comcast deal out the window?

But, it's all a moot point. Comcast has enough "campaign contributions" (and the threat of SuperPAC funding to opponents) to ensure it could get through the FL legislature without any but token opposition.
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Old 07-20-2014, 01:40 PM   #66
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You have been drinking too much Disney Kool-Aid! If you look at what you pay up front, how much you pay each year in maintenance fees and the fact that at the end investment has 0 value and compare that to investing what you paid up front in the markets and paying out-of-pocket each year you would come out about even.
Not true at all, unless you're including ridiculous assumptions in your numbers like 30% annual return on the investments.

Feel free to cite a resort, dates and room size for annual visits and I'll be glad to whip up a quick comparison.

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Todays DVC isn't worth it. DVC from its inception to early 2000s was very good and was a great investment. You really did see a difference and vacations were sort of paying for themselves. Todays DVC is more expensive and not wort it as much.
Of course it's still "worth it." Higher prices means it takes longer to reach that break-even point. 10 years ago you could break even on a DVC purchase in about 6-8 years. Today it's more like 8-10. But higher prices haven't completely destroyed the value of DVC. Not even close.

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Originally Posted by Suvadoo View Post
According to a friend of mine who owns DVC, there is never availability at other resorts. So they have to remain at their home resort.
"Never" is a very poor choice of words. DVC has plenty of availability at 7 months...but not all resorts year-round. The devil is in the details.

I've been an owner for 11 years and would estimate that more than 50% of my stays have been at non-home resorts. I've stayed at nearly all properties in Florida, Vero, Hilton Head and Grand Cal in Disneyland.

If you think you're going to get Beach Club over Thanksgiving or Bay Lake in early December at 7 months, you're liable to be disappointed. But to broadly say that there is "never" any availability at non-home resorts is very, very wrong.

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On the other hand Disney has DVC rentals available at all DVC properties, if you pay for it. Also, if you own DVC free dining is not available to you.
That's all part of the DVC exchange program. When a DVC owner CHOOSES to use points for a non-DVC destination like a Disney Cruise or Adventures By Disney, the net result is DVC villas made available to cash guests. There's nothing underhanded or improper about it. It's simply the net impact of members trading-out.
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Old 07-20-2014, 01:58 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by crazy4wdw View Post
In hindsight, it might actually have been postive for Disney if Comcast had been successful with the merger. At the time it was happening, I was thinking it would be a disaster. But given Comcast's willingness to put lots of cash into Universal, we may have had a much different Walt Disney World today with investments in new attractions in the theme parks.
Doubtful.

The reason Universal is on the receiving end of such investments is because they were in a position to grow their share of the market. Five years ago, the 4 WDW parks were averaging 11-12 million guests per year. The two Universal parks were drawing 4-5 million each. Growth potential.

Universal has experienced nice growth in crowd levels and prices thanks to the new attractions. Invest the same dollars at WDW and you don't see the same net impact because their crowds are already so much higher.

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Apple makes computers

Disney makes movies, toys, stories, theme parks, shows, etc.

Apple is already one of the largest companies in the world and so is disney. Combine the two and it would be incredibly massive. It also would probably be the most expensive buy out ever and would create the largest company in the world. Would the US government allow that? Is Disney hurting that much where they need to be bought? Are they losing money? No. Are they making fans unhappy? Are they expanding their parks how fans think they should? Is Disney focused on making the most money possible. Yes.
I'm not sure what measure you're using in branding Apple a "large company." The entire company employs fewer people than Walt Disney World.

But Apple is a very profitable company.

Would the government allow it? I don't see why not. There is no direct conflict of interest which would trouble regulators.

Does Disney "need to be bought?" That has nothing to do with it. If any buyer offers a price greater than a company's market cap, the board would have to consider it.

Apple is very involved in media through all of its tech products, iTunes, Apple TV, etc. Disney would give them the one thing they don't currently have: ownership of CONTENT. Suddenly they'd have control of Disney's film library (animated and live action), ABC, ESPN and all the other cable networks, a publishing house, Marvel, Lucasarts, Pixar...the list goes on and on.

The fact that Apple hasn't bought Disney says more about their disinterest in crossing that bridge. Apple essentially has enough cash on hand to buy Disney outright. If Apple WANTED to buy Disney, there's very little Disney could do to prevent that from happening.
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Old 07-20-2014, 02:53 PM   #68
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You know I have been thinking it over about the DVC and this is what I have come up with:

1. If there are rooms that are not selling and DVC will make more profit...then convert them suckers. There is no need to let rooms sit empty if they can fill up with DVC.

2. Nice to see Yacht Club is being pretty much untouched......Best.....Resort....Ever.

3. I think Comcast could have done good although I also think Disney being their own company is a good thing as well. Comcast trying to take Disney was a BIG embarssment on Comcasts part.
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Old 07-20-2014, 03:07 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by Suvadoo View Post
I'm sorry, but I don't understand your remark. Is it wrong to ask for a comparison of apples to apples? Does a DVC membership include airfare and dining? If so, sign me up immediately!
No it isn't wrong, and I may have jumped to a conclusion due to a rather lengthy prior exchange on this subject with someone who had no real interest in hearing the "apples".

Of course DVC does not include airfare and dining.

It is a great way to get very largely discounted deluxe rooms for people who intend to go to Disney regularly.

Rteetz's 1500 for POR for 5 nights--- If I got a studio for 5 nights at any of the DVC resorts, it would cost me between 500 and 800 depending on where I stay and when. This includes all costs of DVC-- purchasing and maintenance fees. Right now my contracts are worth at resale a little more than I paid for them. If I was to sell them, my costs for the room (in the past) would drop to 390 to 600. My purchase cost equates to about $2 per point per use. The maintenance fees average to about 5 to 6 dollars per point per use. I used 6 for my calculations above. (point cost per use at $8 per point.)

In about ten years, I think my contracts will max out in value, and at that time I will evaluate if I want to sell or not. Probably not.
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Old 07-20-2014, 08:18 PM   #70
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Not true at all, unless you're including ridiculous assumptions in your numbers like 30% annual return on the investments.

Feel free to cite a resort, dates and room size for annual visits and I'll be glad to whip up a quick comparison.



Of course it's still "worth it." Higher prices means it takes longer to reach that break-even point. 10 years ago you could break even on a DVC purchase in about 6-8 years. Today it's more like 8-10. But higher prices haven't completely destroyed the value of DVC. Not even close.



"Never" is a very poor choice of words. DVC has plenty of availability at 7 months...but not all resorts year-round. The devil is in the details.

I've been an owner for 11 years and would estimate that more than 50% of my stays have been at non-home resorts. I've stayed at nearly all properties in Florida, Vero, Hilton Head and Grand Cal in Disneyland.

If you think you're going to get Beach Club over Thanksgiving or Bay Lake in early December at 7 months, you're liable to be disappointed. But to broadly say that there is "never" any availability at non-home resorts is very, very wrong.



That's all part of the DVC exchange program. When a DVC owner CHOOSES to use points for a non-DVC destination like a Disney Cruise or Adventures By Disney, the net result is DVC villas made available to cash guests. There's nothing underhanded or improper about it. It's simply the net impact of members trading-out.
to be honest I ve been dvc for 6 years now and I ve always gotten what I wanted ...
so yeah that statement is very exaggerated and I just stayed at beach club last month even though my home resort is HH
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Old 07-20-2014, 09:41 PM   #71
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No it isn't wrong, and I may have jumped to a conclusion due to a rather lengthy prior exchange on this subject with someone who had no real interest in hearing the "apples".

Of course DVC does not include airfare and dining.

It is a great way to get very largely discounted deluxe rooms for people who intend to go to Disney regularly.

Rteetz's 1500 for POR for 5 nights--- If I got a studio for 5 nights at any of the DVC resorts, it would cost me between 500 and 800 depending on where I stay and when. This includes all costs of DVC-- purchasing and maintenance fees. Right now my contracts are worth at resale a little more than I paid for them. If I was to sell them, my costs for the room (in the past) would drop to 390 to 600. My purchase cost equates to about $2 per point per use. The maintenance fees average to about 5 to 6 dollars per point per use. I used 6 for my calculations above. (point cost per use at $8 per point.)

In about ten years, I think my contracts will max out in value, and at that time I will evaluate if I want to sell or not. Probably not.
Thanks for clarifying. I think DVC is terrific a lot of families. For me, not really because we're a moderate resort type of family. Now if they start offering Moderate DVC, then we will be very interested.
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Old 07-20-2014, 10:08 PM   #72
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I'd love a DVC/hotel room on the water seen a few pictures of them in the tropics like Boreno/Tahiti
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Old 07-20-2014, 11:44 PM   #73
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I'd love a DVC/hotel room on the water seen a few pictures of them in the tropics like Boreno/Tahiti
The bungalows at the Poly might be what your looking for if your willing to spend 1000 a night or more
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Old 07-21-2014, 09:18 AM   #74
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Doubtful.

I'm not sure what measure you're using in branding Apple a "large company." The entire company employs fewer people than Walt Disney World.

But Apple is a very profitable company.

Would the government allow it? I don't see why not. There is no direct conflict of interest which would trouble regulators.
He's using market cap, Apple has a market cap of around $571B. Combined with Disney, the market cap of the two companies would, at present, give a market cap of $719B. That's nearly twice the value of the next largest company, which I think is Exxon at present. I don't think there would be any government problem, they're not in the same market segment, so no real monopoly concerns. It's would be very interesting if it happened, but I see Disney moving into being a market dog. In the case that it moves into dog status, there would be a big temptation for a takeover to sell off it's parts.
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Old 07-21-2014, 10:27 AM   #75
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I can help with that. I don't argue with anyone on dvc, to each his own. its not the cheapest way and people can argue over the word "investment" and its meaning I don't care. but here is what I have experienced with the numbers:
take our initial investment, remember,back then cbr was $80 per night rack rate. we bought 400 points.figure our yearly fees, add and divide it by 40 years and it comes to, round it up it $3000.00 per year for 40 years. yes, my fees will go up but so will the rates of any hotel room. how much is it today to stay at cbr per night? that is the main point to dvc. 15 years ago I gambled the prices were going to go up and guess what?
now, for 400 point per year to give you an idea, I can stay in a one bedroom for at least 20 nights per year. cheaper then all star sports? no. but when I stay at cbr, I would put $40 into the washer and dryers. I would spend a lot of money on some Danishes and fruit cups for breakfast. we have breakfast in the room. we also have lunch in the room. I save a small fortune on food. now, I don't spend every second in the parks. a lot of people do and if I were a newbie I would to. we like okw. never had a problem making a resi. we are planners, I make my resis 7 months out. I have stayed at Saratoga, okw, bay lake,boardwalk and now trying beach club.
so if someone can get me a 1 bedroom for at least 20 (It is more like 25) nights per year for less, let me know. without paying and relying on another dvc member who I don't know to make my resi for me.
so in a nut shell, we are ap holders which dvc members save $100 per pass per year and we drive so I spend $500 per year in gas. we make adrs for every night on our vacations and make two trips per year. I spend about $2800 per year on our trips for food etc..... don't need a meal plan. so lets add it up, two trips per year, 12 nights per trip on average. (all figures per year not per trip) $3000 for room, $2800 for food, $900 for aps, $500 for transportation. that come to $7200 per year. cheap? no.
now ill get the "but it was cheaper when you bought then now" correct but so was everything. gas food etc..... wages were lower also. im paying 1999 rates for my 1 bedroom. if you bought today, you would be saying the same thing in 15 years.
I think you explained this very well. Honestly I don't know if being a member will save us that much money in the long run. But I can say for a fact is will make us take vacations we wouldn't have otherwise done. With the hours my husband works (80-90/week) and my job we often don't take advantage of the time off we are allotted. Since DVC we have and its been amazing. It's not for everyone but we love it.
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