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Old 08-25-2014, 12:07 PM   #256
rteetz
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Originally Posted by Planogirl View Post
I can see using existing rooms for DVC if the resort isn't doing so well but I don't get building towers or view-blocking rooms over the water. These add-ons not only play havoc with theming but they have the potential to increase crowds. I would bet that Disney hopes to fill all rooms and I'm looking at it from the viewpoint that they figure out a way to succeed.

The comment was made that the parks aren't really all that busy. I doubt that such things as tiering would have been implemented if at the very least ride capacity wasn't an issue.
I don't have an answer for towers but the over the water bungalows kind of do fit the theme. Disney will be calling this section Bora Bora. Most of us know Bora Bora has these type of over water rooms. The polynesian is a mix of all types of polynesia and Bora Bora fits that. Im not saying it doesn't block views or should be there to begin with I am saying is the theming is still there.

Tiering was put in place for the two parks that have very few attractions worth riding. When you go to Epcot what are your two big ones you want to ride? Soarin and Test Track. When you go to DHS what are the big ones you want to ride? TSMM, TOT, and RnR. Both parks have more attractions but they are mostly high capacity attractions or attractions that really not many people want to ride. The Backlot tour is just sort of depressing these days. I love figment but that ride needs something and never has more than a 10 minute wait. Epcot has been quite dead this summer. DHS has had bigger crowds mainly because of Frozen summer fun. MK always has crowds because its MK. AK on my visit in july was moderately crowded.
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Old 08-25-2014, 12:16 PM   #257
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Individual attraction capacity has always been an issue. Even in Walt's day, not every guest entering Disneyland could ride Autopia, Matterhorn, Peter Pan and most other attractions. The attractions with the highest capacity--like POTC and Haunted Mansion--didn't even debut until after Walt's passing.

But the parks themselves have sufficient infrastructure to hold many more people than they currently do. Park closures due to high attendance are rare--just a few days per year around Christmas and Easter--and even then it's usually just Magic Kingdom and occasionally Epcot.

On an average operating day, none of the parks come close to any maximum capacity threshold.
And I'm afraid that's exactly the way Disney views it. "You're not getting any new rides until you fully utilize the ones you have".

It might be legal to operate near or at capacity every day. But it will never reach that. Too many people would stop going because it would be such an unpleasant experience.
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Old 08-25-2014, 12:26 PM   #258
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They sure seem to. Some would say recently they've spent too much money on theming and not enough on substance (new Fantasyland, Animal Kingdom park.)



Ugh. Yeah, because the people paying $800 per night for Poly rooms and $30 for cheap "2014" t-shirts and $60 per day for a pre-paid dining plan are completely blameless.

Disney has over 25,000 hotel rooms vs. about 3500 villas. While Disney obviously values the returns it gets from DVC point sales, it's a little misguided to hold DVC accountable for all that ails Walt Disney World.
Well I was just saying that as long as DVC keeps selling like it is they are going to keep building it. Yes of course there are other things that factor in and I really don't know why you would pay 800 per night for a room at the poly especially the way it looks right now I wouldn't unless I was a billionaire looking for places to burn money.

The whole point of this thread which I started was to bring a notice that DVC is going to keep going. On wdwmagic.com a very popular poster called the spirit is the one who pointed out these changes. He has been right numerous times when it comes to disney and even universal.

Disney can't fill their hotels to capacity right now, especially deluxe.

The Poly is in the midst of adding DVC which includes converting existing rooms to DVC. Lots of sources say Wilderness Lodge is next with just converting more rooms to DVC. Multiple sources have also said Beach Club, Contemporary and even moderates are on their list.

Disney is likely going to be adding frozen to maelstrom in the coming months. That would be Epcots only new things since the TT redo.

AK is getting Pandora in 2017 if everything is on schedule...

MK finally finished NFL in May, nothing else besides Hub expansion on their table...

DHS... rumors continue to fly as they have for years now that something will happen. The spirit says we won't see a star wars expansion until around 2020 (thats completion). Jim Hill says construction will begin in January, but that was said last january as well. So who knows what will happen at DHS

DTD wait Disney Springs is under a massive construction craze right now that is also seeing delays parking garage was supposed to open early fall now its slated for early 2015 sometime. The food truck park was supposed to open in the summer now slated for maybe october. The landing which is the area that was Pleasure Island is supposed to open in early 2015 as well.

Disneyland is less than a year away from its big 60th celebration which is supposed to bring some new things for both parks.

Hong kong is supposedly getting ready for a rumored expansion and a new night parade.

Paris is Paris that place still isn't performing to what disney originally wanted it too.

Tokyo is doing great of course because the Oriental company puts so much money into those parks to keep them updated and clean WDW used to be that way too.

Finally Shanghai Igers last hurrah if its done by the time he leaves massive delays are happening and an original late 2015 opening is looking more and more likely to be a spring to summer 2016 opening.

I've also heard rumors of two more cruise ships coming along...
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Old 08-25-2014, 12:41 PM   #259
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The whole point of this thread which I started was to bring a notice that DVC is going to keep going.
Of course they are going to continue selling DVC points...for as long as the market exists. I'm well aware of everything you outlined in this last post. The line I was specifically commenting on was this:

"If people stopped buying DVC that may help change disneys focus onto something else finally."

Disney doesn't have a single focus. Just because they are building a timeshare resort at the Poly or Wilderness Lodge doesn't mean that managerial attention or funds are being diverted from elsewhere.

A comment like this is akin to saying "gee, I wish people would quit buying Dole Whips so Disney could focus on something else." Despite the existence--and popularity--of Dole Whips, Disney still finds time to focus on turkey legs, cheeseburgers, candy apples, cornets and literally hundreds of other snacks.

Is DVC profitable for Disney? Yes, absolutely.

Is repeat business generated by DVC responsible for some stagnation in the parks? Perhaps, but the degree is debatable. DVC villas represent less than 15% of all Disney-owned lodging on site. They still have a heck of a lot of rooms to fill aside from DVC...and many more off-site day guests to attract.

Bottom line is you can't tell people to "stop buying DVC" any more than you can tell others to stop buying overpriced Poly & Contemporary hotel rooms, t-shirts, turkey legs, dining plans, Villain party tickets, etc.
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Old 08-25-2014, 01:42 PM   #260
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Of course they are going to continue selling DVC points...for as long as the market exists. I'm well aware of everything you outlined in this last post. The line I was specifically commenting on was this:

"If people stopped buying DVC that may help change disneys focus onto something else finally."

Disney doesn't have a single focus. Just because they are building a timeshare resort at the Poly or Wilderness Lodge doesn't mean that managerial attention or funds are being diverted from elsewhere.

A comment like this is akin to saying "gee, I wish people would quit buying Dole Whips so Disney could focus on something else." Despite the existence--and popularity--of Dole Whips, Disney still finds time to focus on turkey legs, cheeseburgers, candy apples, cornets and literally hundreds of other snacks.

Is DVC profitable for Disney? Yes, absolutely.

Is repeat business generated by DVC responsible for some stagnation in the parks? Perhaps, but the degree is debatable. DVC villas represent less than 15% of all Disney-owned lodging on site. They still have a heck of a lot of rooms to fill aside from DVC...and many more off-site day guests to attract.

Bottom line is you can't tell people to "stop buying DVC" any more than you can tell others to stop buying overpriced Poly & Contemporary hotel rooms, t-shirts, turkey legs, dining plans, Villain party tickets, etc.
I know Disney doesn't have a single focus. What I was trying to point out was DVC is a large part of that focus. If DVC wasn't maybe DHS and/or Epcot would get some help. DVC is great but does it really need to make another round through the deluxe resorts.

Another thing is every hotel room in Disney is over priced Disney values aren't worth what they are priced at. I wouldn't stay in a disney room without a discount. I myself have never even stayed at a deluxe only value and moderates. Deluxe prices are just crazy. I think merchandise is different people will always buy merchandise thats a given they do that at every theme park around the world. The villain party had a lot of people upset so we will see how that goes in the future. And they just added another premium add on for the halloween party. Disney will always have premium events and merchandise. I am mainly talking about that they should invest more into the parks than resorts.
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Old 08-25-2014, 04:13 PM   #261
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I am mainly talking about that they should invest more into the parks than resorts.
If you really believe that NOT building DVC Poly (or Wilderness Lodge, or Caribbean Beach) means Disney would re-direct that money toward a couple "E" ticket attractions, you are sorely mistaken.

This isn't a case where The Walt Disney Company only has $100K to spend and needs to decide if they want to build another DVC or use it for an attraction. The decision-making processes behind those investments are totally separate.
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Old 08-25-2014, 07:56 PM   #262
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If you really believe that NOT building DVC Poly (or Wilderness Lodge, or Caribbean Beach) means Disney would re-direct that money toward a couple "E" ticket attractions, you are sorely mistaken.

This isn't a case where The Walt Disney Company only has $100K to spend and needs to decide if they want to build another DVC or use it for an attraction. The decision-making processes behind those investments are totally separate.
If it's that cut and dried then there is something seriously wrong with those who build attractions. They have allowed way too much to become stagnant and dull and to me that it just about as bad as empty pavilions.
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Old 08-25-2014, 08:18 PM   #263
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If it's that cut and dried then there is something seriously wrong with those who build attractions. They have allowed way too much to become stagnant and dull and to me that it just about as bad as empty pavilions.
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Old 08-25-2014, 08:52 PM   #264
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If it's that cut and dried then there is something seriously wrong with those who build attractions. They have allowed way too much to become stagnant and dull and to me that it just about as bad as empty pavilions.
They've allowed stagnation to come in because, quite simply, they can.

The crowds continue to pack into the parks and the suits continue to find ingenuous ways to repackage everything into 'special events'. There wasn't much of an investment in the Villains Unleashed event yet they charged seventy bucks for countless folks to get all cozy together. Now the Halloween party has taken that concept a bit further with an embedded event of its own and charging more for it than the up front cost of the party itself. I'm sure that will sell out as well.

The stagnation will go away once guests vote with their wallets, much like they did at California Adventure. Until then, count on more hard ticket items to keep the profits sky-high.
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Old 08-25-2014, 09:44 PM   #265
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I've never seen the connection between Disney hotels and theme park crowd levels. People don't choose to visit the Disney parks solely because of the existence of another Disney hotel. When they opened Art of Animation, it didn't prompt more people to visit WDW...it simply gave them another lodging alternative AFTER they had already decided to visit.
Agree...
But that doesn't mean that DISNEY does equate resort construction/ expenditures as a block to further strengthening of parks... Particularly in the swamp

"Only so much money to go around", you know?

If you ignore every shred of financial data...of course
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Old 08-25-2014, 09:50 PM   #266
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If it's that cut and dried then there is something seriously wrong with those who build attractions. They have allowed way too much to become stagnant and dull and to me that it just about as bad as empty pavilions.
Thats what I am getting at. Really DVC and the parks should work together. DVC members are guests who will keep coming back, they should want fresh and new things in the parks and that just isn't happening.
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Old 08-25-2014, 09:55 PM   #267
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Ugh. Yeah, because the people paying $800 per night for Poly rooms and $30 for cheap "2014" t-shirts and $60 per day for a pre-paid dining plan are completely blameless.

Disney has over 25,000 hotel rooms vs. about 3500 villas. While Disney obviously values the returns it gets from DVC point sales, it's a little misguided to hold DVC accountable for all that ails Walt Disney World.
I tend to agree... While the expansion of DVC shares some blame for stagnation... One would think...
It is often used as a scapegoat.

As this post so eloquently points... Plenty of Deserved blame to go around.

Bad consumers...my broken record (actually one of many)
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Old 08-25-2014, 10:10 PM   #268
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Old 08-25-2014, 11:14 PM   #269
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They've allowed stagnation to come in because, quite simply, they can.

The crowds continue to pack into the parks and the suits continue to find ingenuous ways to repackage everything into 'special events'. There wasn't much of an investment in the Villains Unleashed event yet they charged seventy bucks for countless folks to get all cozy together. Now the Halloween party has taken that concept a bit further with an embedded event of its own and charging more for it than the up front cost of the party itself. I'm sure that will sell out as well.

The stagnation will go away once guests vote with their wallets, much like they did at California Adventure. Until then, count on more hard ticket items to keep the profits sky-high.
I'm not one of those who likes to go on about how things used to be and all of that (except Epcot occasionally ) but I honestly believe that there was a time when quality was of primary importance and that put Disney where they are today. I don't understand why that concept has seemed to all but disappear in some cases.

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Thats what I am getting at. Really DVC and the parks should work together. DVC members are guests who will keep coming back, they should want fresh and new things in the parks and that just isn't happening.
The trouble is that people are voting with their wallets no matter how lackluster Disney creativity often is nowadays. As long as they draw huge crowds, they just don't seem to care much about new things and I doubt that DVC will make a difference as long as people keep buying.

We're guilty of this too! We have seen the constant downturn of the parks and yet we keep on going back. I might reach my breaking point soon but I haven't so far.
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Old 08-26-2014, 08:20 AM   #270
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Of course they are going to continue selling DVC points...for as long as the market exists. I'm well aware of everything you outlined in this last post. The line I was specifically commenting on was this:

"If people stopped buying DVC that may help change disneys focus onto something else finally."

Disney doesn't have a single focus. Just because they are building a timeshare resort at the Poly or Wilderness Lodge doesn't mean that managerial attention or funds are being diverted from elsewhere.

A comment like this is akin to saying "gee, I wish people would quit buying Dole Whips so Disney could focus on something else." Despite the existence--and popularity--of Dole Whips, Disney still finds time to focus on turkey legs, cheeseburgers, candy apples, cornets and literally hundreds of other snacks.

Is DVC profitable for Disney? Yes, absolutely.

Is repeat business generated by DVC responsible for some stagnation in the parks? Perhaps, but the degree is debatable. DVC villas represent less than 15% of all Disney-owned lodging on site. They still have a heck of a lot of rooms to fill aside from DVC...and many more off-site day guests to attract.

Bottom line is you can't tell people to "stop buying DVC" any more than you can tell others to stop buying overpriced Poly & Contemporary hotel rooms, t-shirts, turkey legs, dining plans, Villain party tickets, etc.
I agree with much of what you posted above.

To the bolded: I have to disagree a bit since they've been almost myopically focused on the Resorts side of the house along with expanding ancillary (additional charge) offerings like Splittsville, Disney Springs, etc., rather than the Parks side.

Look at what they've built since 2007: AKV, BLT, AoA, GFV, with PRV soon to come.

If even half of what's in the Jim Hill/Len Testa podcast comes to fruition - that an amazing amount of continued effort, expense, headcount, and liabilities increase when compared to the Parks side and will be a significant increase in DVC percentage and of Deluxe, especially.

One thing all of this highlights without a doubt - Disney on-site guests, and DVC in particular, have a higher spend rate and use those ancillary services more.

It makes sense in that DVC'rs have a higher length of stay and have a higher number of visits. I mean, if you're been to the Parks 15 times and are staying for a week, there's a much higher chance of skipping Parks days and hitting all those pricey add-ons like the Spa, or Magnolia for golf, or Splittsville, or guide fishing the lakes, etc. Length of Stay is a big concern for Disney.

Bottom line, their investment shows they're still aggressively "farming" the existing plot and continuing to do everything they can to increase the number of locked in, longer staying, longer spending, DVC'rs.
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