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Old 02-10-2014, 03:05 PM   #61
JoWiJo
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Originally Posted by dalayney View Post
Are you kidding me???? Having a plus sized princess is not automatically saying it's ok to be overweight.
Maybe not, but it becomes exactly that when you create one just for the sake of having one to make overweight girls feel good about themselves.

Quote:
But I would bet my pooh sized hiney ,hundreds of thousands of chubby girls would be thrilled with a plus sized role model, if only to relate to them. That yes, they are worthy, they are beautiful no matter what size they are. Sorry, but fat girls need to be told this. They're not, and I think it would be lovely for disney to do so. Having a plus sized princess doesn't mean disney is going to portray her sitting on the couch eating donuts for crying out loud. Geez people...

Bottom line? We need to accept people for who they are no matter what their size. It's not happening! Fat shaming is rampant. Most people that are plus sized, KNOW they are plus sized, and KNOW how they got there. They're not stupid. I bet you 90% eat for comfort, eat to void the pain of not being accepted, or troubles in their life. Read up on sugar addiction. It's just as bad as any drug out there.

I personally think if other people would stop being so judgemental of plus sized people? It would go a heck of a long way in regaining confidence which is usually one of the very first steps at someone working on their weight. It starts with "I am worthy of ..." and goes from there. How does anyone feel they are worthy of even starting on the problem, if they're constantly being told by society ,and everyone around them that being plus sized is the worst thing possible?

As far as a "solution to the problem?" Sorry, but there will always, ALWAYS be plus sized people. There is no magic solution. But I personally think ACCEPTANCE would go a heck of alot farther, than JUDGEMENT.
Now let's add some perspective to my previous post. I am quite a bit overweight myself. I need to lose about 50 pounds (and 6-8 inches around the belly). While there are some people out there that would love to be down to only 50 lbs. over, I most certainly am not thin. I'm fat. And it's not fun.

As you mentioned, shaming the overweight is (and has been for ages) rampant. It's frightening to hear reports of companies implementing health plans where people could be terminated for being merely slightly overweight. That's crossing the line from being genuinely concerned about health to being judgemental.

I'm not being judgemental here. But neither would I intentionally encourage anyone to remain well overweight.

You are correct when you say "We need to accept people for who they are no matter what their size." That is something that could partially be addressed by Disney by refraining from making the heavier set the object of comic relief (both genders on that one). Even better would be having a portly sidekick come in save a skinny hero. Don't forget, sidekicks are the heroes' heroes.

But there is an inherent danger of making a princess plus. Yes, it would make some girls feel good about themselves, and that is good. But what is the message that would ultimately be conveyed? Keep the pounds on because they don't matter? In terms of being worthy as a human being, that would be true, but it does matter where their own health is concerned. There are numerous health problems that increase in likelihood from being overweight. This is where my concern truly lies. Not mocking the fat. Not scoffing them. But being concerned about them.

Yes, oversized girls (and boys) need to hear that they are attractive. They need to hear that they are worthy. They need to hear that they are loved.

That comes directly from the people around them, not the movies.



FWIW, my resolution this year is to shed off a good portion of those extra pounds. So yes I'm concerned about my own health.
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Old 02-11-2014, 09:08 AM   #62
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But just what is the most fit physique? I'm not so sure that media can't change the response to that question. Societies change their opinion as to what is attractive. Consider the Renaissance, when corpulence was preferred. While it can be debated whether people actually preferred obesity or they just saw that food must be readily accessible to such a person, the fact is that it was ingrained in that society to persue the chubby as well as personal weight gain. Yet opinion changed toward the thin. Why? Genetic override? Or societal discretion?

I believe that if all the media constantly pushed plus-sizes as being the way to go, culture would eventually cave in and concur, especially with the obesity levels we already now have. People believe way too much what's in the media. Kinda like what they hear from Disney bus drivers.

I personally believe part of what people find physically attractive in another person is pure biology, as you point out, but it's also what they've been taught to look for.
Society sets the ideal physical qualities as those that are associated with the "ideal mate" ... during the Renaissance - which came right after the Black Plague - if you were a bit on the heavier side that meant you had access to the food to enable that (speaking in generalities, obviously genetics play a role too).

But in 21st century western society, for most people access to food is not an issue so, rather, having a metabolism to stay trim is attractive as it is viewed as being healthy and therefore one is a better mate. For females, also having wide hips is attractive as it is "better" for birthing, and for men, being able to provide and protect is attractive (again, in generalities - not trying to say a female needs a male to protect her)

I do think society has mostly gotten away from the anorexic look or heroin chic as we know that being that thin is not healthy and not conducive for reproducing.

So "fantasy" is going to portray that ideal - that is, for females, to be trim with hips for reproducing - and this will be exaggerated a bit and the human eye and mind better reacts to extremes (easier to remember a caricature of someone rather than an accurate outline of them)
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Old 02-12-2014, 11:04 AM   #63
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@TheMaxRebo

Not sure how much of that was directed at me personally or the thread in general. But it's all good.

That first paragraph of mine was intended to generate a response. And that was essentially the response I was looking for. In retrospect, I'm not sure why I asked those rhetorical questions. I'm usually not into debating, though I do enjoy a good discussion.

Anyway... Yes, we are moving away from that anorexic look, and thankfully so. We still have a ways to go to get more normal-looking models instead of the ideal, but strides are being made there, too.

And yup, thin but great for child-bearing is how fantasy directed at the general populace will portray females. Just like they draw the men tall and muscular.
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Old 02-12-2014, 12:49 PM   #64
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Why don't we have a tall princess? Or a short prince? Or a princess with a less than ample chest? Or a princess with a straight figure and no hips? Why don't we have a princess who is muscular? Or with acne? Or a disability? Why don't we have princes with birth marks? What about a skinny prince without broad shoulders? Why can't we have a prince or princess who is just considered average looking instead of attractive? Heck, why can't we have a size 10 princess with braces marry a prince two inches shorter than her?

My point being: there are a lot of body types and conditions that aren't currently represented in Disney animation. Why is plus size the one we're fighting for?

I am plus size, and I still don't think that a plus size princess is the message I would want to send to my (currently nonexistent) daughter. A still healthy but larger size 12 princess, you bet!

Though I agree with previous posters- if we can stop using plus sized characters as comic relief- that would be fantastic!
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Old 02-12-2014, 12:55 PM   #65
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@TheMaxRebo

Not sure how much of that was directed at me personally or the thread in general. But it's all good.

That first paragraph of mine was intended to generate a response. And that was essentially the response I was looking for. In retrospect, I'm not sure why I asked those rhetorical questions. I'm usually not into debating, though I do enjoy a good discussion.

Anyway... Yes, we are moving away from that anorexic look, and thankfully so. We still have a ways to go to get more normal-looking models instead of the ideal, but strides are being made there, too.

And yup, thin but great for child-bearing is how fantasy directed at the general populace will portray females. Just like they draw the men tall and muscular.
It was meant for the thread in general but I thought your post was good and made the most sense to build off of it ... sorry if it came off like "arguing" with you or directed specifically to you


and I think your last 2 sentence paragraph summed up what I took way too many words to try and say
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Old 02-12-2014, 06:22 PM   #66
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just wanted to add my 2 cents

Disney does not owe the world an overweight princess. They can produce whatever they want in their movies. If a kid sees a fit princess and somehow gets offended maybe the onus is on the parents to stop their kids from being so sensitive.
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Old 02-12-2014, 09:49 PM   #67
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Maybe kids should learn it's not okay to be fat and unhealthy at an early age...
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Old 02-12-2014, 10:25 PM   #68
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Maybe kids should learn it's not okay to be fat and unhealthy at an early age...
I somehow doubt the kids are the ones doing the grocery shopping and cooking the meals. They are eating what is provided to them by their parents. Please, let's not get snarky about young children whose weight issues are beyond their control.
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Old 02-14-2014, 05:32 PM   #69
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So you're okay with the next princess looking like this? http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/...16_634x593.jpg Or this? http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs70/f/20...nn-d5ex1n0.jpg

AND saying that that's okay to use as a role model for young girls?
Really, really?

You think that all bigger girls must look like Jabba the Hutt? You don't think maybe there is a much more reasonable way to portray a bigger princess without making them look like a blob? Wow.

It's not unreasonable to have a princess more in the mold of Snow White or a little bigger than Ariel, for example.
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Old 02-14-2014, 05:42 PM   #70
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The movie's theme song could be "big bottoms" from spinal tap
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Old 02-14-2014, 10:15 PM   #71
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Really, really?

You think that all bigger girls must look like Jabba the Hutt? You don't think maybe there is a much more reasonable way to portray a bigger princess without making them look like a blob? Wow.

It's not unreasonable to have a princess more in the mold of Snow White or a little bigger than Ariel, for example.
Obviously not, but do all smaller girls look like Cinderella? That's my point. They're cartoons, they're caricatures of the human form.

Like I've said previously, I'm 5'4 and 180. That's the 'average'. I'd still be weirded out if Disney made a princess with my build.
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Old 02-15-2014, 09:13 AM   #72
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Maybe kids should learn it's not okay to be fat and unhealthy at an early age...
AMEN!!! And here's a crazy thought, parents and kids, BOTH, should learn is not OK to be fat and unhealthy. We don't need a Disney movie to support plus size girls, that could just be a gateway movie, to.....do I dare say it.....obese size princesses.

And to add...if you need disney to make movies about plus size princesses to make you feel good about yourself, you have issues you need to deal with on a personal level. Personal responsibility people, it's up to you, NOT Disney.

Rant over!

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Old 02-15-2014, 11:05 AM   #73
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After a fat princess will there be calls for handicapped princesses, then mentally handicapped princesses, lesbian princesses, transgender princesses, dwarf princesses, bi-racial princesses? The possibilities are endless.

Disney can't make a princess out of every single special interest out there. As the father of an adopted Korean girl I understand why people wanted racial diversity and why Tiana was celebrated. But here we are in 2014 and there is not one princess movie about an asian girl. Mulan is a military/family pride movie. It's not in any way a princess movie. Does she dance with a prince? Does she wear a ball gown? Does she have a dream?

Mulan (the movie) is not like any other "princess" movie. Because it's not a princess movie.

So while you're waiting for the chubby-girl princess movie I'm waiting for the asian-girl princess movie and someone else is waiting for the wheelchair-girl movie. Disney can't make all of us happy. So they should just stick with what the people want: blonde, slim, attractive sixteen-year-old girls.
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Old 02-15-2014, 12:50 PM   #74
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AMEN!!! And here's a crazy thought, parents and kids, BOTH, should learn is not OK to be fat and unhealthy. We don't need a Disney movie to support plus size girls, that could just be a gateway movie, to.....do I dare say it.....obese size princesses.

And, here's another crazy thought. Maybe adults and kids, BOTH, should learn it is not OK to fatshame people, especially young people.

Many overweight children outgrow their extra weight. Many don't.

I just don't see how being accepting of people of all shapes, sizes, colors, persuasions is somehow equal to glorifying obesity.
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Old 02-15-2014, 02:19 PM   #75
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The thing that irritates me about this topic is how so many people immediately interpret plus-sized to mean overweight and unhealthy. Healthy weight people can be just as unhealthy as overweight people, it just doesn't reflect in their weight. Underweight can be just as unhealthy as overweight. Regardless, people come in different sizes. Plus-size clothing begins at a size 12. A size 12 is hardly overweight, unless the woman is short. It can be a completely average, healthy-weighted person who happens to be plus-size because of body type. The media, including Disney, definitely promotes the idea that smaller is better, and that idea is often defended under the ridiculous argument that bigger means unhealthy. It's simply not true.
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