Disney Information Station Logo

Go Back   The DIS Discussion Forums - DISboards.com > Disney Trip Planning Forums > Disney Rumors and News
Find Hotel Specials & DIScounts
 
facebooktwitterpinterestgoogle plusyoutubeDIS Updates
Register Chat FAQ Tickers Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 02-09-2014, 03:56 PM   #46
JoWiJo
Longing to go back
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 160

Quote:
Originally Posted by beer dave View Post
What is actually being asked for is not on a level that disney or any media can change-- a re wiring of peoples brains to no longer desire the most fit and dominant physiques. This is engrained into our sub conscious by the creating powers that be to help generate the species in the most productive way. The females are drawn to the most dominant males for protection and provision, and the males are drawn to the most fit or able bodied females for successful child bearing. Can't change it.
But just what is the most fit physique? I'm not so sure that media can't change the response to that question. Societies change their opinion as to what is attractive. Consider the Renaissance, when corpulence was preferred. While it can be debated whether people actually preferred obesity or they just saw that food must be readily accessible to such a person, the fact is that it was ingrained in that society to persue the chubby as well as personal weight gain. Yet opinion changed toward the thin. Why? Genetic override? Or societal discretion?

I believe that if all the media constantly pushed plus-sizes as being the way to go, culture would eventually cave in and concur, especially with the obesity levels we already now have. People believe way too much what's in the media. Kinda like what they hear from Disney bus drivers.

I personally believe part of what people find physically attractive in another person is pure biology, as you point out, but it's also what they've been taught to look for.

With that said, I agree with the consensus here. Girls don't need to be taught that it's no big deal to be overweight. It is a big deal -- for health reasons. I won't belabor the argument, I'd just be reiterating what others have already said. I can appreciate what the girl is attempting, but it's not the solution to the problem.
__________________
First visit 1979 (?) -- Oh the magic!
Second visit 1987 -- Finally got to see EPCOT
Third visit 1989-90 -- Rang in New Year, saw Disney MGM park
Fourth visit 2009 -- Celebrated birthday by visiting Animal Kingdom.
Next visit -- Who knows?
JoWiJo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2014, 07:42 PM   #47
dalayney
Mouseketeer
 
dalayney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Bristol, Wisconsin
Posts: 186

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoWiJo View Post
With that said, I agree with the consensus here. Girls don't need to be taught that it's no big deal to be overweight. It is a big deal -- for health reasons. I won't belabor the argument, I'd just be reiterating what others have already said. I can appreciate what the girl is attempting, but it's not the solution to the problem.
Are you kidding me???? Having a plus sized princess is not automatically saying it's ok to be overweight. But I would bet my pooh sized hiney ,hundreds of thousands of chubby girls would be thrilled with a plus sized role model, if only to relate to them. That yes, they are worthy, they are beautiful no matter what size they are. Sorry, but fat girls need to be told this. They're not, and I think it would be lovely for disney to do so. Having a plus sized princess doesn't mean disney is going to portray her sitting on the couch eating donuts for crying out loud. Geez people...

Bottom line? We need to accept people for who they are no matter what their size. It's not happening! Fat shaming is rampant. Most people that are plus sized, KNOW they are plus sized, and KNOW how they got there. They're not stupid. I bet you 90% eat for comfort, eat to void the pain of not being accepted, or troubles in their life. Read up on sugar addiction. It's just as bad as any drug out there.

I personally think if other people would stop being so judgemental of plus sized people? It would go a heck of a long way in regaining confidence which is usually one of the very first steps at someone working on their weight. It starts with "I am worthy of ..." and goes from there. How does anyone feel they are worthy of even starting on the problem, if they're constantly being told by society ,and everyone around them that being plus sized is the worst thing possible?

As far as a "solution to the problem?" Sorry, but there will always, ALWAYS be plus sized people. There is no magic solution. But I personally think ACCEPTANCE would go a heck of alot farther, than JUDGEMENT.
__________________


January 2005 offsite
January 2007 ALL STAR MOVIES
Febuary/March 2013 ALL STAR SPORTS
Planning our first ever "no kids" WDW trip December 2015~
dalayney is offline   Reply With Quote
|
The DIS
Register to remove

Join Date: 1997
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 1,000,000
Old 02-09-2014, 07:59 PM   #48
Alice Royal
Nineteen, female, Florida resident, Disney addict. ^^
 
Alice Royal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Twenty minutes from WDW. :D
Posts: 434

Quote:
Originally Posted by dalayney View Post
Are you kidding me???? Having a plus sized princess is not automatically saying it's ok to be overweight. But I would bet my pooh sized hiney ,hundreds of thousands of chubby girls would be thrilled with a plus sized role model, if only to relate to them. That yes, they are worthy, they are beautiful no matter what size they are. Sorry, but fat girls need to be told this. They're not, and I think it would be lovely for disney to do so. Having a plus sized princess doesn't mean disney is going to portray her sitting on the couch eating donuts for crying out loud. Geez people...

Bottom line? We need to accept people for who they are no matter what their size. It's not happening! Fat shaming is rampant. Most people that are plus sized, KNOW they are plus sized, and KNOW how they got there. They're not stupid. I bet you 90% eat for comfort, eat to void the pain of not being accepted, or troubles in their life. Read up on sugar addiction. It's just as bad as any drug out there.

I personally think if other people would stop being so judgemental of plus sized people? It would go a heck of a long way in regaining confidence which is usually one of the very first steps at someone working on their weight. It starts with "I am worthy of ..." and goes from there. How does anyone feel they are worthy of even starting on the problem, if they're constantly being told by society ,and everyone around them that being plus sized is the worst thing possible?

As far as a "solution to the problem?" Sorry, but there will always, ALWAYS be plus sized people. There is no magic solution. But I personally think ACCEPTANCE would go a heck of alot farther, than JUDGEMENT.

So you're okay with the next princess looking like this? http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/...16_634x593.jpg Or this? http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs70/f/20...nn-d5ex1n0.jpg

AND saying that that's okay to use as a role model for young girls?
__________________



Me (19)
AP Holder and Proud Florida Resident since 2013!


THE FAM BACK HOME IN NH

DMom DDad DB (14)
Alice Royal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2014, 08:25 PM   #49
dalayney
Mouseketeer
 
dalayney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Bristol, Wisconsin
Posts: 186

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alice Royal View Post
So you're okay with the next princess looking like this? http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/...16_634x593.jpg Or this? http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs70/f/20...nn-d5ex1n0.jpg

AND saying that that's okay to use as a role model for young girls?

I will just turn it around on you. So, your saying that person, who's picture you just linked to, isn't worthy? Isn't worthy of being told she is beautiful? Or that she matters? Or that she is just as wonderful, unique and awesome as a skinny person? You proved my point to perfection. Thank you for that.

Acceptance, not Judgement. It goes so much further. Bravo Alice for proving my point.
__________________


January 2005 offsite
January 2007 ALL STAR MOVIES
Febuary/March 2013 ALL STAR SPORTS
Planning our first ever "no kids" WDW trip December 2015~
dalayney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2014, 08:30 PM   #50
nugov2
DIS Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,868

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alice Royal View Post
So you're okay with the next princess looking like this? http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/...16_634x593.jpg Or this? http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs70/f/20...nn-d5ex1n0.jpg

AND saying that that's okay to use as a role model for young girls?
I don't think that is ok personally, but showing someone who isn't stick thin would be nice. I am pretty thin so I don't have any skin in the game from that angle, but portraying a healthy bigger body isn't bad. Someone with the figure of Robyn Lawley who is considered plus size, but clearly has a healthy body. There is a huge difference IMO between a bigger healthy person and an obese and unhealthy person. Just like there is a difference between a skinny healthy body and a skinny unhealthy body. To me portraying someone obese or overweight, but unhealthy like that is the same as portraying someone who is anorexic. It is very unhealthy and nobody should aspire to it. A child should know that people come in all shapes and sizes, but I feel that allowing a child to become obese is just as harmful as significantly limiting your child's food to keep them thin.
nugov2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2014, 08:32 PM   #51
Alice Royal
Nineteen, female, Florida resident, Disney addict. ^^
 
Alice Royal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Twenty minutes from WDW. :D
Posts: 434

Quote:
Originally Posted by dalayney View Post
I will just turn it around on you. So, your saying that person, who's picture you just linked to, isn't worthy? Isn't worthy of being told she is beautiful? Or that she matters? Or that she is just as wonderful, unique and awesome as a skinny person? You proved my point to perfection. Thank you for that.

Acceptance, not Judgement. It goes so much further. Bravo Alice for proving my point.
No, what I'm saying is that because Disney characters are caricatures of real life, a plus-sized princess may be drawn in any hyperbolic way an animation team chooses. You can make the curves softer and more realistic, but that's not a cartoon.

And yeah, I think there is a line where 'beautiful' is blurred, but the whole 'my fat is beautiful' thing is BS. I'm 5'4 and about 175 and even THAT is ugly to me. I'm ashamed to look the way I do, and I don't blame anyone else but myself for it, and I'm WORKING on it. I'd much rather see a fit princess than a fat one.

ETA: Disney Princesses aren't people. There is a significant difference between the judgement of an overweight person in real life and the judgement of lines on paper.
__________________



Me (19)
AP Holder and Proud Florida Resident since 2013!


THE FAM BACK HOME IN NH

DMom DDad DB (14)
Alice Royal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2014, 08:36 PM   #52
nugov2
DIS Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,868

Quote:
Originally Posted by dalayney View Post
I will just turn it around on you. So, your saying that person, who's picture you just linked to, isn't worthy? Isn't worthy of being told she is beautiful? Or that she matters? Or that she is just as wonderful, unique and awesome as a skinny person? You proved my point to perfection. Thank you for that.

Acceptance, not Judgement. It goes so much further. Bravo Alice for proving my point.
I didn't take her post to say that. I just think it is a point that we should be promoting a healthy lifestyle in all shapes and sizes and somebody who is morbidly obese is not choosing a healthy lifestyle. They do deserve love and being told she is beautiful, but she deserves to know she most likely won't live a long life. That she is doing very harmful damage to her body. She doesn't need to be skinny...she needs to be healthy and there is a huge difference.

I find obesity and anorexia to fall under the same umbrella and both need help to find a better way b/c if they don't there body will suffer damage.
nugov2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2014, 08:37 PM   #53
dalayney
Mouseketeer
 
dalayney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Bristol, Wisconsin
Posts: 186

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alice Royal View Post

ETA: Disney Princesses aren't people. There is a significant difference between the judgement of an overweight person in real life and the judgement of lines on paper.

Tell that to a little "plus sized" girl. They don't see the difference.
__________________


January 2005 offsite
January 2007 ALL STAR MOVIES
Febuary/March 2013 ALL STAR SPORTS
Planning our first ever "no kids" WDW trip December 2015~
dalayney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2014, 08:39 PM   #54
Yellowstonetim
DIS Veteran
 
Yellowstonetim's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Camp Hill, PA
Posts: 1,245

There are two competing ideas being discussed here, and both have merit. One is that acceptance of those who are different is important and would be good for Disney to do when it comes to body type. The second is teaching good health which includes addressing obesity in our children. Both are noble and proper. The question is, which should Disney address and how?

I don't think Disney could or should get directly into the obesity issue. What are they going to do, have an obese character and then have them dieting and exercising in the story!?

There are compromises. As someone already mentioned, how about at least some variations in body types? How about a range of healthy body types. And why can't they have a "larger" person as part of the story in a positive way without endorsing of promoting obesity? One character that is on the large side is not going to make all the kids leave the theater and say, "Gee, lets go get ice cream, I now think fat is good!"

This is probably why Disney generally avoids the subject. It is a minefield. Barbie makes an obese Barbie doll and is vilified because they did it "wrong."
__________________
I lift up my eyes to the hills - where does my help come from?
My help comes from the LORD, the Maker of heaven and earth. Psalm 121:1-2

"Remember, no matter where you go... there you are!" Buckaroo Banzai

1980 - Disneyland for 1 day while in the US Navy
1981-1983 Several 1 day visits while living in Orlando
1984- 1996 Several one and two day visits while visiting family
2000 January - 4 Nights, 5 Days - All Star Movies
2012 January - 5 Nights, 6 Days - Caribbean Beach
2013 September - 9 Nights, 10 days - Port Orleans Riverside Royal Room.
2014 November - ?
Yellowstonetim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2014, 08:48 PM   #55
Alice Royal
Nineteen, female, Florida resident, Disney addict. ^^
 
Alice Royal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Twenty minutes from WDW. :D
Posts: 434

Quote:
Originally Posted by dalayney View Post
Tell that to a little "plus sized" girl. They don't see the difference.
Except what little 'plus-sized' girl is going to see a Disney Princess and say 'I want to WEIGH like her'? They don't see that. I see plenty of fat little girls in Princess dresses at WDW. If Disney REALLY wanted to promote anorexia/thinness in kids, they wouldn't sell their costumes all the way up to something like 2X in kids.

Honestly, this is such a non-issue. The majority of people worldwide are not 'plus-sized', and with Disney being an international business, I believe that MANY people globally would be offended by a fat princess moreso than Americans. Especially if it wasn't done nonchalantly due to this kind of a campaign.
__________________



Me (19)
AP Holder and Proud Florida Resident since 2013!


THE FAM BACK HOME IN NH

DMom DDad DB (14)
Alice Royal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2014, 08:48 PM   #56
dalayney
Mouseketeer
 
dalayney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Bristol, Wisconsin
Posts: 186

Quote:
Originally Posted by nugov2 View Post
but she deserves to know she most likely won't live a long life. That she is doing very harmful damage to her body. She doesn't need to be skinny...she needs to be healthy and there is a huge difference..

Which points out another angle that baffles me. Do you seriously think most women the size of the pictures Alice linked to? Don't know that? That they're totally stupid to the fact what their weight is doing to them? That they're oblivious to the harm they are doing to themselves? Newsflash: Overweight people aren't stupid. Food is like any other addiction out there. It is JUST as addictive as drugs. It's just as addictive as booze. And the sucky @#% part of it, is people still have to eat, to survive. You can go cold turkey on drugs and booze. How is Food not a worse addiction that the other two? Ya still need it, to survive.
People with food addiction most of the time need to find out "why" they eat, and come to terms with the emotional side before any progress gets done.

We can teach good healthy eating habits till we're blue in the face. But we need to address the emotional issues to really get any progress in our obese nation. And the judgement from others, and what society "deems" worthy, as far as body images go? Is part of the problem. Most of the time, telling a person their weight is not acceptable, is only going to push them further into eating. Baffles me that so many people don't understand this.
__________________


January 2005 offsite
January 2007 ALL STAR MOVIES
Febuary/March 2013 ALL STAR SPORTS
Planning our first ever "no kids" WDW trip December 2015~
dalayney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2014, 08:54 PM   #57
dalayney
Mouseketeer
 
dalayney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Bristol, Wisconsin
Posts: 186

Except what little 'plus-sized' girl is going to see a Disney Princess and say 'I want to WEIGH like her'?

************************************************** *****

Of course they're not going to say that. But they will see, "Gee she looks just like me, and she is awesome, and loved, and confident, and I can be too! "
__________________


January 2005 offsite
January 2007 ALL STAR MOVIES
Febuary/March 2013 ALL STAR SPORTS
Planning our first ever "no kids" WDW trip December 2015~
dalayney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2014, 08:56 PM   #58
dalayney
Mouseketeer
 
dalayney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Bristol, Wisconsin
Posts: 186

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yellowstonetim View Post
There are two competing ideas being discussed here, and both have merit. One is that acceptance of those who are different is important and would be good for Disney to do when it comes to body type. The second is teaching good health which includes addressing obesity in our children. Both are noble and proper. The question is, which should Disney address and how?

I don't think Disney could or should get directly into the obesity issue. What are they going to do, have an obese character and then have them dieting and exercising in the story!?

There are compromises. As someone already mentioned, how about at least some variations in body types? How about a range of healthy body types. And why can't they have a "larger" person as part of the story in a positive way without endorsing of promoting obesity? One character that is on the large side is not going to make all the kids leave the theater and say, "Gee, lets go get ice cream, I now think fat is good!"

This is probably why Disney generally avoids the subject. It is a minefield. Barbie makes an obese Barbie doll and is vilified because they did it "wrong."
Very good points and a nice middle ground.
__________________


January 2005 offsite
January 2007 ALL STAR MOVIES
Febuary/March 2013 ALL STAR SPORTS
Planning our first ever "no kids" WDW trip December 2015~
dalayney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2014, 09:02 PM   #59
North of Mouse
DIS Veteran
 
North of Mouse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 6,180

Quote:
Originally Posted by dalayney View Post
Are you kidding me???? Having a plus sized princess is not automatically saying it's ok to be overweight. But I would bet my pooh sized hiney ,hundreds of thousands of chubby girls would be thrilled with a plus sized role model, if only to relate to them.

As far as a "solution to the problem?" Sorry, but there will always, ALWAYS be plus sized people. There is no magic solution. But I personally think ACCEPTANCE would go a heck of alot farther, than JUDGEMENT.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalayney View Post
Tell that to a little "plus sized" girl. They don't see the difference.
I would venture to say that if most 'chubby' girls (your words) had the choice before them of a chubby princess doll and a current Disney princess doll they would choose the 'current' doll. I'll say again that I would never give a 'chubby' doll to a child even if they made one. I can see it now (from the mommy) - "so this is how you perceive my little girl to be?"-------------

They need the encouragement of having a healthy weight (or current fantasy princess doll rather) doll instead of them seeing a doll that they'd then perceive others seeing them as. They don't need that. Real life is probably harsh enough for them - let them enjoy their Disney fantasy like all of us do.

Fantasy world has nothing to do with 'real life'.
North of Mouse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2014, 09:50 PM   #60
nugov2
DIS Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,868

Quote:
Originally Posted by dalayney View Post
Which points out another angle that baffles me. Do you seriously think most women the size of the pictures Alice linked to? Don't know that? That they're totally stupid to the fact what their weight is doing to them? That they're oblivious to the harm they are doing to themselves? Newsflash: Overweight people aren't stupid. Food is like any other addiction out there. It is JUST as addictive as drugs. It's just as addictive as booze. And the sucky @#% part of it, is people still have to eat, to survive. You can go cold turkey on drugs and booze. How is Food not a worse addiction that the other two? Ya still need it, to survive.
People with food addiction most of the time need to find out "why" they eat, and come to terms with the emotional side before any progress gets done.

We can teach good healthy eating habits till we're blue in the face. But we need to address the emotional issues to really get any progress in our obese nation. And the judgement from others, and what society "deems" worthy, as far as body images go? Is part of the problem. Most of the time, telling a person their weight is not acceptable, is only going to push them further into eating. Baffles me that so many people don't understand this.
I understand that and I understand it is an addiction. Which is why WDW shouldn't be addressing it in their movies. It IMO isn't the medium to do it. No good would come of it. Again, showing a healthy bigger person should be done and I see no reason Frozen couldn't have been told with Ana or Elsa being a healthy size 12.

I also get that we can teach healthy eating, but it won't help those with eating issues be healthy. Just like an alcoholic/hoarder/drug addict those people need to be loved, but also need to be helped. I think most of society thinks that body image isn't a number but all about healthy...there hasn't been a time since skinny has been in where a bigger healthy person hasn't been in a more positive light than now. I also think hoarders face a similar dilemma b/c you always have to buy things, but it is just another aspect to the disease. It doesn't mean it can't be overcome. I actually think that helping someone see what they are doing to themselves can help. Silently standing by and watching someone kill themselves with addiction no matter what it is won't help and neither will beating them over the head with it. There is a middle ground. It sounds like this issue hits home with you and you are reading into peoples comments more than what is there. I don't think anyone is suggesting anyone is stupid.
nugov2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

facebooktwitterpinterestgoogle plusyoutubeDIS Updates
GET OUR DIS UPDATES DELIVERED BY EMAIL



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:15 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Copyright © 1997-2014, Werner Technologies, LLC. All Rights Reserved.

You Rated this Thread: