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Old 12-03-2013, 12:01 AM   #31
MickeySP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorelei Lee View Post
Ok, I'm not sure of all the details. Let ne get the story straight.

Father bought and paid for the car with money he inherited and with a trade in of a vehicle. Daughter did not contribute to the purchase price of the vehicle.

Veicle is titled in both names, father and daughter. Father has physical possession of the registration. Is vehicle also registered in his name? OP didn't answer that point.

Vehicle is insured under a policy issued to father's wife.

Daughter lives 400 miles away from father.

OP, you have gotten a lot of "legal" advice here, some of it dead wrong.

Your best bet is to look up the regulations on your state's DMV website, and ultimately consult a lawyer if the father persists in his effort to retrieve the car.

The immediate concern is whether the father can take possession of the car. The answer is, he's one of the owners and entitled to possession. However, he generally cannot enter private property to retrieve his property. If he shows up to retrieve the car and it's in your garage, or your friend's garage, he's going to have a difficult time of it. That's a temporary solution at best, and can be overcome if he reports the car stolen or if he should he take her to court. Ultimately you could be in trouble for keeping his car. I could see him asking the police to charge you with receiving stolen property. Messy situation.

Although your daughter's name is on the title, I'd be nervous about driving the car if it's registered in the father's name. If, for example, he reports the vehicle stolen, he could create a miserable situation for the daughter -- the police won't care that her name is on the title if it's not on the registration when they pull her over.

And if she tries to register and insure the vehicle, she will run into considerable difficulty if the car is currently registered in the father's name. You will have to look up the rules from your state's DMV. That's no guarantee, either, if he takes her to court.

And I'd caution against driving the car if it's not registered or insured.


As for ownership of the car . . .it seems clear to me that he is the owner of the car and put daughter's name on the title as a courtesy. He paid for the car, she didn't. He put his own name on the title and presumably the registration, and he insures the car, indicating that he wanted to keep ownership and control of the car and not make a gift to his daughter.

Ultimately I think your daughter is going to lose this battle.
To one bolded - Daughter can simply ask for a registration to be sent to her. She has the same legal rights as father, possession of the paper does not purport ownership.

2nd bold - it has no bearing why he put her on - courtesy/gift/debt etc.. - once she was on she is entitled to 50/50 ownership & rights there of.

Also if her reports it stolen & daughter then disputes it stating it is a civil matter of ownership, Dad risks the charge of filing a false police report. Both charges are equally false.

Now if Mom/Daughter can prove Dad is not competent - case closed. It does sound like he is on disability for MH issues. They should petition registry to remove Dad under imminent medical harm. If he has mh issues is why is he even a licensed driver? Someone needs to get him off the road.
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Old 12-03-2013, 06:47 AM   #32
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The car is titled in both names. She has possession of the vehicle and the bill of sale showing both names. He has possession of the registration. I am not sure if his state holds the title of if he has it. The car insurance is in his wife's name. The vehicle was purchased with a check that he wrote with funds from his mother's estate and with a trade-in of his mother's car that had been given to my daughter.
That is a stinky situation.

Frankly, I would wash my hands of it and get a different car for her. Tell "dad" he can come and pick up the car.

But then again I am a person who can't stand to play these games. I would call his bluff and move on with life. Having something held over my head is not something I can tolerate at all.
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Old 12-03-2013, 07:11 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Imzadi

How can the OP be charged with receiving stolen property if the DD is also "one of the owners and entitled to possession"?
Because the OP has no right to possession of the vehicle. Her daughter is the titled owner, and the OP derives her right to hold onto the vehicle from the daughter. But the father is also a titled owner of the car and has the right to posses the vehicle. In a battle between the OP and the father, OP loses.
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Old 12-03-2013, 07:19 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by The Mystery Machine View Post
That is a stinky situation.

Frankly, I would wash my hands of it and get a different car for her. Tell "dad" he can come and pick up the car.

But then again I am a person who can't stand to play these games. I would call his bluff and move on with life. Having something held over my head is not something I can tolerate at all.
ITA. I'd handle it as you would. Time to disengage.

OP, that's a tough situation to be in, especially when dealing with a person that isn't rational. Good luck to you.
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Old 12-03-2013, 07:26 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MickeySP

To one bolded - Daughter can simply ask for a registration to be sent to her. She has the same legal rights as father, possession of the paper does not purport ownership.

2nd bold - it has no bearing why he put her on - courtesy/gift/debt etc.. - once she was on she is entitled to 50/50 ownership & rights there of.

Also if her reports it stolen & daughter then disputes it stating it is a civil matter of ownership, Dad risks the charge of filing a false police report. Both charges are equally false.

Now if Mom/Daughter can prove Dad is not competent - case closed. It does sound like he is on disability for MH issues. They should petition registry to remove Dad under imminent medical harm. If he has mh issues is why is he even a licensed driver? Someone needs to get him off the road.
First of all, you are taking the OP's word that the father is unstable at face value. She hasn't told us he's diagnosed as having a mental illness or that he's off his medications. She told us that he's "unstable". That's her petsonal opinion, nothing more.

If you were yo ask his current wife, instead of his former wife, you very well might hear that father is perfectly normal but totalky outraged at his daughter's disrespect for him. Remember, OP said father was very angry about things the daughter said to him.

I don't know what was said between father and daughter, but OP has obviously taken her daughter's side of the argument. We have no way of judging which party is in the right.

So let's assume daughter was right and father is "unstable".

So ok, her name is on the title. At best she owns a 50% interest in the car. Clearly the father did not intend to relinquish dominion and control over the car. He paid for the car, he registered the car, he insures the car. And if a court of equity were to decide who is entitled to possession of the car, the father has the stronger argument. And all this game playing about hiding the car and re-registering the car in another state is not going to help the situation.
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Old 12-03-2013, 07:31 AM   #36
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I would go online and try to order a duplicate registration and see what comes up. May be able to change the shipping address during checkout.

All you need is the tag/title number to at least look it up.
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Old 12-03-2013, 07:32 AM   #37
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And you might want to Google "title" and "presumption of a gift". It is, after all, a rebuttable presumption.
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Old 12-03-2013, 07:53 AM   #38
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If the woman driving the car wants it to be her car perhaps she can pay to register it and insure it herself instead of relying on the continued gifts from a man she seems to not like too much right now. Right now the father paid for it, pays for it to be registered and pays for it to be insured.
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Old 12-03-2013, 07:58 AM   #39
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ITA. I'd handle it as you would. Time to disengage.

OP, that's a tough situation to be in, especially when dealing with a person that isn't rational. Good luck to you.
Yep.

If my father said that crap to me, the next thing out of my mouth is "come and get it."

I do not have 1 second of tolerance for that kind of stuff, mental illness or not.

And believe me my MIL was paranoid schizophrenic and I still did not put up with shenanagins.

All it does is make you feel like crap and make them have power over you which they have no right to do so...I shudder at the thought of that.

Good Luck with whatever you decide to do OP.
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Old 12-03-2013, 08:49 AM   #40
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Hope you get it straightened out, girl.
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Old 12-03-2013, 09:04 AM   #41
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A friend of mine had a similar situation a couple of years ago.

When his daughter graduated from college a few years ago, she decided to live in the upstate community where she'd gone to school. She had only a part time job and couldn't qualify for a car loan. The father took out a car loan and bought and insured the car, with the understanding that daughter would pay a portion of each month's loan payment.

Daughter couldn't find a full time job and stopped making payments.

Father became increasingly frustrated. He thought about driving upstate and taking back the car. He thought about cancelling the insurance. He thought about letting the loan default and allowing the finance company to repossess the car.


Ultimately the daughter moved back to her mother's house on Long Island. She must have worked things out with her father, because he stopped talking about repossessing the car.
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Old 12-03-2013, 09:08 AM   #42
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I for one would not want or need drama in life. I would help my daughter by another car. I would want my children to learn not to play games and have drama. It is a material item. This is just not worth it.
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Old 12-03-2013, 09:40 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by TheIncredibles! View Post
If the woman driving the car wants it to be her car perhaps she can pay to register it and insure it herself instead of relying on the continued gifts from a man she seems to not like too much right now. Right now the father paid for it, pays for it to be registered and pays for it to be insured.
This ^^^

The daughter should pay for the registration and insurance and then she wouldn't have to worry about other people controlling these things.

Who gets to physically keep the car is a civil matter. If they both own it according to the title then perhaps the car should be sold with each taking half.
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Old 12-03-2013, 09:47 AM   #44
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How did the dad get on state disability when he has a large inheritance and can write a check for a new car? Sounds like he doesn't need the state's help financially..
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Old 12-03-2013, 09:54 AM   #45
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I'm confused..how can he have possession of the registration if she has the car? As far as I know, the registration has to be kept in the vehicle. If she got stopped, police would ask for license and registration, and she wouldn't be able to provide it???
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