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Old 12-02-2013, 10:34 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Imzadi View Post
You mean his name is on the registration? He may suddenly cancel the registration and if she drives it, unknowingly, she would be driving an unregistered car. He may take off the license plates, if he can't physically drive or tow the car away.
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Originally Posted by Janepod View Post
No one's going to care about the bill of sale. If a tow shows up to take the car, the only thing that's going to stop them is the title.

Just hide the car. Leave it at a friend's house. I'm sure it will all blow over in a week or two.

BTW why would the state have the title?
Some states hold the title.

The car is in my garage now but I don't want to get into it with him. He knows she is gone for the week so I don't doubt he will show up and try to take it.
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Old 12-02-2013, 10:35 PM   #17
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I did tell her to order a replacement registration and title ASAP but the address on file is his house so not sure if she can get it sent to a new address or not.
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Old 12-02-2013, 10:39 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClarabelleCowFan View Post
The car is titled in both names. She has possession of the vehicle and the bill of sale showing both names. He has possession of the registration. I am not sure if his state holds the title of if he has it. The car insurance is in his wife's name. The vehicle was purchased with a check that he wrote with funds from his mother's estate and with a trade-in of his mother's car that had been given to my daughter.
You still haven't answered whose name is on the registration. It doesn't matter if he has possession of a copy of it if it's in her name. And it doesn't matter where the money came from to pay for the car. Those are just stories. (Not meaning to be unkind. I know this must be stressful to the both of you, with him being mentally unstable. But, the backstory doesn't matter in court.)

According to the bolded, in your statement above, it's not looking good for your DD.

If his name is on the registration than your DD is 0 and 3 in his favor.

And again, if he is the one registered, he can cancel the registration and even claim that the plates were stolen. His wife can cancel the insurance at any time.

So she'd own a car that effectively, she has not enough money to drive it, assuming she doesn't have enough money for insurance for the rates of a college aged female.
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Old 12-02-2013, 10:44 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClarabelleCowFan View Post
Some states hold the title.

The car is in my garage now but I don't want to get into it with him. He knows she is gone for the week so I don't doubt he will show up and try to take it.
I agree with Janepod. Just move the car. Have her overnite FedEx the keys if she didn't leave them with you. When he shows up, just say the car isn't there and let him look in the garage to verify it. He can hardly take what he can't find. Unless the car has a LoJac locator on it.

Maybe he will calm down in a month and be over it all.
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Old 12-02-2013, 10:47 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClarabelleCowFan View Post
Can she register the car in the state she is going to be living in without his signature? The law in that state is that she has to register the vehicle within 10 days of the beginning of the semester if she is a full time student so technically the car should be registered there anyway.

The whole situation bites.
She's essentially driving the car unregistered now, it sounds like. If he has the registration card, and she gets pulled over by the police for something, and she can't produce the registration.....she's going to get a ticket for that.

I really think she needs legal advice to clarify the ownership of the vehicle. In my decidedly-not-an-expert opinion, if her name is on the title, she has as much right to the car as he does. I don't think it really matters who paid for it. But it sounds like the car was at least partially paid for with an asset of hers (the car his mother gave her), so if were me, I wouldn't be inclined to let him have the car back.

In the short term, I think if I were her I'd ask a friend to lock the car in their garage, and then I'd make myself scarce until this blows over and he comes back to his senses and she can get the legal situation clarified. If he can't find her or the car, he can't do much.

Hm....but I suppose he can still show up and make a scene at your place if that's where he expects to find the car. Any way you can manage to be out of town when he shows up?

Once he comes back to his senses, the best course of action may be to sell this car, she and her father both get back what they put into it, and let her get a used car or something that she can afford on her own, and that will be 100% hers.
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Old 12-02-2013, 10:58 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imzadi View Post
You still haven't answered whose name is on the registration. It doesn't matter if he has possession of a copy of it if it's in her name. And it doesn't matter where the money came from to pay for the car. Those are just stories. (Not meaning to be unkind. I know this must be stressful to the both of you, with him being mentally unstable. But, the backstory doesn't matter in court.)

According to the bolded, in your statement above, it's not looking good for your DD.

If his name is on the registration than your DD is 0 and 3 in his favor.

And again, if he is the one registered, he can cancel the registration and even claim that the plates were stolen. His wife can cancel the insurance at any time.

So she'd own a car that effectively, she has not enough money to drive it, assuming she doesn't have enough money for insurance for the rates of a college aged female.
Sorry but I haven't seen the registration but if both names are on the title then I assume both would be on the registration as well. She left the keys with me so I will just move it tomorrow to an undisclosed location and let her deal with it when she returns next week.

We had carried her on our car insurance until this vehicle was purchased in August and her Dad insisted on putting her on his. My husband and I can easily add her back onto our policy, which ironically is the same company that my ex's wife uses.

My daughter does have a job - 3 actually - and is a full time student. She buys her own gas and pays for regular maintenance on the vehicle. The car is registered in SC which imposes annual property taxes on the vehicle. I am not sure when that is due again since it usually goes by your birthday and with 2 names on the title that could have just been paid or due next month.

I have an email into my attorney regarding the situation so I hope she can shed some light on the matter.

The whole situation is very sad. I appreciate the advice.
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Old 12-02-2013, 11:03 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClarabelleCowFan View Post
Can she register the car in the state she is going to be living in without his signature? The law in that state is that she has to register the vehicle within 10 days of the beginning of the semester if she is a full time student so technically the car should be registered there anyway.

The whole situation bites.
If his name is currently on the registration and he cancels the registration, I would think she'd be free to register it under her name. She is the other title owner. But, if he's still registered, I don't think she will be able to transfer registration without him signing off on it.

The problem is, it's hard to know if/when he cancels the registration. And if/when his wife cancels the insurance, unless he tells DD. DD would get two tickets then, if caught. Actually, just one bigger one. Then her insurance rates would go up.
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Old 12-02-2013, 11:03 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynne M View Post
She's essentially driving the car unregistered now, it sounds like. If he has the registration card, and she gets pulled over by the police for something, and she can't produce the registration.....she's going to get a ticket for that.

I really think she needs legal advice to clarify the ownership of the vehicle. In my decidedly-not-an-expert opinion, if her name is on the title, she has as much right to the car as he does. I don't think it really matters who paid for it. But it sounds like the car was at least partially paid for with an asset of hers (the car his mother gave her), so if were me, I wouldn't be inclined to let him have the car back.

In the short term, I think if I were her I'd ask a friend to lock the car in their garage, and then I'd make myself scarce until this blows over and he comes back to his senses and she can get the legal situation clarified. If he can't find her or the car, he can't do much.

Hm....but I suppose he can still show up and make a scene at your place if that's where he expects to find the car. Any way you can manage to be out of town when he shows up?

Once he comes back to his senses, the best course of action may be to sell this car, she and her father both get back what they put into it, and let her get a used car or something that she can afford on her own, and that will be 100% hers.
She had no idea the registration wasn't in the car. She thought the bill of sale was the registration. We explained to her that she would get a ticket if pulled over without the registration.

My husband just went and checked the car again - no registration anywhere but the tags expire in a few months and they are 2 year tags so these are the same plates from the other car. Ugh. Now I am questioning whether or not he transferred the plates or not. Surely the dealership would have done so, right? Looks like a call to the DMV is in order tomorrow.

I pray daily that he comes back to his senses but I don't think that will ever happen unfortunately. We all miss who he used to be.
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Old 12-02-2013, 11:08 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imzadi View Post
If his name is currently on the registration and he cancels the registration, I would think she'd be free to register it under her name. She is the other title owner. But, if he's still registered, I don't think she will be able to transfer registration without him signing off on it.

The problem is, it's hard to know if/when he cancels the registration. And if/when his wife cancels the insurance, unless he tells DD. DD would get two tickets then, if caught. Actually, just one bigger one. Then her insurance rates would go up.
Luckily for us, the insurance company uses member numbers so we can track quite easily if she is dropped from their policy. If we call tomorrow to add her to ours, the company will tell us if she has valid insurance or not. That part, at least, is easy.
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Old 12-02-2013, 11:24 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClarabelleCowFan View Post
Sorry but I haven't seen the registration but if both names are on the title then I assume both would be on the registration as well. She left the keys with me so I will just move it tomorrow to an undisclosed location and let her deal with it when she returns next week.
I *think* only one name can be on the registration. But, that may just be this state. Or they were really old rules.

Even if you park it at the mall parking lot during the day, it would be better than if the car is there.


Quote:
We had carried her on our car insurance until this vehicle was purchased in August and her Dad insisted on putting her on his. My husband and I can easily add her back onto our policy, which ironically is the same company that my ex's wife uses.
Oh good. One bad situation avoided.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ClarabelleCowFan View Post
My husband just went and checked the car again - no registration anywhere but the tags expire in a few months and they are 2 year tags so these are the same plates from the other car. Ugh. Now I am questioning whether or not he transferred the plates or not. Surely the dealership would have done so, right? Looks like a call to the DMV is in order tomorrow.
The plates go with the registration. He couldn't have put these plates on the car unless the registration matched.

Can you check online for the registration, as to whose name is on it? Some states allow renewals online. If you input DDs info and it pops up her as the registered owner, then you are good to go on that point. If your ex's name is on the registration, you probably won't pull up a valid registration as it would be private.
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Old 12-02-2013, 11:32 PM   #26
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Ok, I'm not sure of all the details. Let ne get the story straight.

Father bought and paid for the car with money he inherited and with a trade in of a vehicle. Daughter did not contribute to the purchase price of the vehicle.

Veicle is titled in both names, father and daughter. Father has physical possession of the registration. Is vehicle also registered in his name? OP didn't answer that point.

Vehicle is insured under a policy issued to father's wife.

Daughter lives 400 miles away from father.

OP, you have gotten a lot of "legal" advice here, some of it dead wrong.

Your best bet is to look up the regulations on your state's DMV website, and ultimately consult a lawyer if the father persists in his effort to retrieve the car.

The immediate concern is whether the father can take possession of the car. The answer is, he's one of the owners and entitled to possession. However, he generally cannot enter private property to retrieve his property. If he shows up to retrieve the car and it's in your garage, or your friend's garage, he's going to have a difficult time of it. That's a temporary solution at best, and can be overcome if he reports the car stolen or if he should he take her to court. Ultimately you could be in trouble for keeping his car. I could see him asking the police to charge you with receiving stolen property. Messy situation.

Although your daughter's name is on the title, I'd be nervous about driving the car if it's registered in the father's name. If, for example, he reports the vehicle stolen, he could create a miserable situation for the daughter -- the police won't care that her name is on the title if it's not on the registration when they pull her over.

And if she tries to register and insure the vehicle, she will run into considerable difficulty if the car is currently registered in the father's name. You will have to look up the rules from your state's DMV. That's no guarantee, either, if he takes her to court.

And I'd caution against driving the car if it's not registered or insured.


As for ownership of the car . . .it seems clear to me that he is the owner of the car and put daughter's name on the title as a courtesy. He paid for the car, she didn't. He put his own name on the title and presumably the registration, and he insures the car, indicating that he wanted to keep ownership and control of the car and not make a gift to his daughter.

Ultimately I think your daughter is going to lose this battle.
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Old 12-02-2013, 11:34 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClarabelleCowFan

Sorry but I haven't seen the registration but if both names are on the title then I assume both would be on the registration as well. She left the keys with me so I will just move it tomorrow to an undisclosed location and let her deal with it when she returns next week.

We had carried her on our car insurance until this vehicle was purchased in August and her Dad insisted on putting her on his. My husband and I can easily add her back onto our policy, which ironically is the same company that my ex's wife uses.

My daughter does have a job - 3 actually - and is a full time student. She buys her own gas and pays for regular maintenance on the vehicle. The car is registered in SC which imposes annual property taxes on the vehicle. I am not sure when that is due again since it usually goes by your birthday and with 2 names on the title that could have just been paid or due next month.

I have an email into my attorney regarding the situation so I hope she can shed some light on the matter.

The whole situation is very sad. I appreciate the advice.
Usually the car is registered in only one name. But I am not familiar with South Carolina procedures.
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Old 12-02-2013, 11:45 PM   #28
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I'm glad you emailed your attorney.

I would not want to see you exacerbate a bad situation by following some of the advice you received here.
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Old 12-02-2013, 11:49 PM   #29
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Each state is different, you really need to check with your RMV. Here a car can be registered in both names even if title is in one name only.

The title is more important than reg. She can request a copy of title & being a legally registered owner she can change the address anytime she wants.

It really has no bearing who paid if both are registered owners, it is a 50/50 ownership when he made it a joint registration.

I would get her own insurance, call your attorney & see if you can get him to sign off if he gets back in a good mood.

Now if she is the only one on the title, she can drop him from reg - no problem.

I am taking there is no lien holder from the circumstances stated. They would be the only other parties legally entitled to any say.
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Old 12-02-2013, 11:51 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorelei Lee View Post
The immediate concern is whether the father can take possession of the car. The answer is, he's one of the owners and entitled to possession. However, he generally cannot enter private property to retrieve his property. If he shows up to retrieve the car and it's in your garage, or your friend's garage, he's going to have a difficult time of it. That's a temporary solution at best, and can be overcome if he reports the car stolen or if he should he take her to court. Ultimately you could be in trouble for keeping his car. I could see him asking the police to charge you with receiving stolen property. Messy situation.

How can the OP be charged with receiving stolen property if the DD is also "one of the owners and entitled to possession"?
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