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Old 11-27-2013, 11:39 AM   #31
irisheyes123
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I have seen blackfish it hasn't changed my mind about going to sea world. They do amazing work everyday rescuing and caring for these. I guess they would not have the money to do this without this park. I would like to know how people feel when they go to disney if they feel sea world is wrong for keeping these whales, dolphins in captivity. Disney also have dolphins in Epcot and why is it wrong for one park and not the other.
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Old 11-27-2013, 12:12 PM   #32
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Ive thought long and hard about this, and i can't se any difference between Sea World, Disney or Knowsley Safari Park & Chester Zoo, where i have spent many a day at as a child and a parent.To boycott Sea World i would have to do the same for the others,as they are all out to make a profit and all the animals are held against their will,and I'm sure if we investigated them too we would find a skeleton or two in their closets!.If i only did it for Sea World would just be hypocritical & pointless.
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Old 11-27-2013, 01:04 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Elise79 View Post
Seaworld didn't comment in the film but did issue this:


They do spend a lot of money on rescue & rehabilitation and even partner with Disney on the manatee rescues - so that's not a lie.

I have to documentary on sky+ to watch however from everything I have read about it I don't think it will change my views. It was made by a protest group. Had it been made by an independent group or organisation such as the BBC I might give it more credibility for being completely factual. Sensationalism and picking what they want you to see will have come into it even if they claim it is a balanced view.

Are Seaworld perfect? No, probably not however a lot of things happened a long while a ago and you can't change the past. And last time I checked you can not get a several ton animal to do anything it didn't want to: be it a horse or a dolphin or a whale.
I completely agree with you, I read the book 'Death at SeaWorld' which was similar and definitely had an agenda. I have also gone to SeaWorld many times over the years and seen the manatees they have rescued. When marine animals are in distress, SeaWorld seems to be the main place they call for a rescue. Yes, it is a theme park, but it also does good.
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Old 11-28-2013, 04:49 AM   #34
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I watched this last night, even though we are going in December. It was horrible but actually a bit of an eye-opener.

Maybe I was naive, I hadnt really thought about how they "got" the whales, I guess I had just assumed they were all born there.

And I couldnt believe how many deaths and incidents had happened that I hadn't heard about! I was so shocked when they showed video of some of the incidents.

The trainers they interviewed obviously loved the whales, and as one guy said "If I left, who would look after the whales?"

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Old 11-28-2013, 05:05 AM   #35
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I watched this last night, even though we are going in December. It was horrible but actually a bit of an eye-opener. Maybe I was naive, I hadnt really thought about how they "got" the whales, I guess I had just assumed they were all born there. And I couldnt believe how many deaths and incidents had happened that I hadn't heard about! I was so shocked when they showed video of some of the incidents. The trainers they interviewed obviously loved the whales, and as one guy said "If I left, who would look after the whales?" X
I totally agree with you.

I hadn't ever thought about how the whales got there. For some reason I thought they were rescued like the manatees etc.
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Old 11-28-2013, 07:14 AM   #36
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I watched the documentary and – while it was pretty bias – it does seem to present a strong case that Orca’s should not be in captivity.

The size and scale of them is difficult to cope with and TBH , even if SeaWorld do the best they can, they can't guarantee that the Orca’s are happy or not dangerous to Trainers.
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Old 11-29-2013, 07:24 AM   #37
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I haven't been to sea world in years but was going to go in May next yr,
I turned on the tv while in disney in October and this came on but I'd missed half of it,

It was shocked and saddened like many others and could not believe it when they said Dawn was to blame!

That being said I know that I will go to seaworld in may as we don't pay being military the boys have never been and are desperate to go, and if I boycotted SW then like pp said id have to do the same with many other places I visit, including Disney due to the dolphins at Epcot and all the animals at AK plus AKL where we have stayed.

Yes they look like they are amazingly well looked after at Disneys AK and they have quite a bit of land but there still not free in the wild! A d those dolphins have quite a small tank.
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Old 12-07-2013, 03:37 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by jb68 View Post
Oh yes, there's nothing like a one-sided, agenda-driven, piece of propaganda to get everyone ranting!
I couldn't agree more, and that's why I refuse to watch the program. I do not like being told how to feel on an issue by a heavily biased documentary, I will do my own research and come to my own conclusion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by irisheyes123 View Post
I have seen blackfish it hasn't changed my mind about going to sea world. They do amazing work everyday rescuing and caring for these. I guess they would not have the money to do this without this park. I would like to know how people feel when they go to disney if they feel sea world is wrong for keeping these whales, dolphins in captivity. Disney also have dolphins in Epcot and why is it wrong for one park and not the other.
That is an excellent point, and one that came into my mind too. Disney do a similar thing, yet nobody's pointing fingers at them. They keep several animals in captivity over a theme park and AKL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elise79 View Post
Seaworld didn't comment in the film but did issue this:


They do spend a lot of money on rescue & rehabilitation and even partner with Disney on the manatee rescues - so that's not a lie.

I have to documentary on sky+ to watch however from everything I have read about it I don't think it will change my views. It was made by a protest group. I remember seeing a thread about it on the main Community Boards a few months ago. Had it been made by an independent group or organisation such as the BBC I might give it more credibility for being completely factual. Sensationalism and picking what they want you to see will have come into it even if they claim it is a balanced view.

Are Seaworld perfect? No, probably not however a lot of things happened a long while a ago and you can't change the past. And last time I checked you can not get a several ton animal to do anything it didn't want to: be it a horse or a dolphin or a whale.
Again, couldn't agree more. This documentary was not made by the BBC, it was a group out to specifically prove their own point using information and views biased to their own cause, therefore, anything presented will be one sided and you should do your own research to get a complete balanced view.
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Old 12-07-2013, 04:36 PM   #39
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I went to sea world once as a child but have never been back since, I watched blackfish and it was sad viewing, personally I have written to disney about the dolphins and not had much response although saying well other places keep these animals too does not make sea world right in doing so - two wrongs don't make a right.

If you love sea world will the documentary change your mind possibly not but to watch it gives you an informed option when discussing the film with others surely? If sea world were to bring out a film in response I would watch it so that I could possibly understand both sides of the argument.

There are many arguments for and against zoos/wildlife parks - the keeping of endangered species for example but sea world is not a zoo the animals there are not just to be observed in an as close to a natural environment as is possible in an enclosed space they are there to do tricks to entertain people.

But we are all able to make up our own minds and I would never tell anyone to not go, each to their own
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Old 12-07-2013, 04:56 PM   #40
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I love SeaWorld. I always have. I think they do an amazing job with certain aspects of the conservation work they do.

The comparison between SeaWorld and Zoo's is there to be made. There is nothing natural about an iceburg in central London. Or a rainforest in Florida. It is impossible to replicate an animals natural surroundings, although zoos do a darn sight better job that some places.

Orca's seem to be especially kept in "unnatural" areas, because there is nothing natural about a 12000lb orca in a giant swimming pool. However, as they were put there some time ago, they can simply be let go as this documentary suggested. Most of them in SeaWorld were born there and therefore have no ability to "hunt", they would die very quickly.

You cant turn back the clock 30/40 years by saying its not right to have them in captivity. They are there so SeaWorld has no option but to care for them in the best possible way.

The show has created many a "orca lover" - I had very little interest in these beautiful animals before I saw this show. They raise masses of awareness through this show and the specific animals there are used to these activities and probably enjoy the interactive nature of the process. Whether its right or wrong.
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Old 12-07-2013, 06:41 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by LeaversOnTour View Post
I love SeaWorld. I always have. I think they do an amazing job with certain aspects of the conservation work they do.

The comparison between SeaWorld and Zoo's is there to be made. There is nothing natural about an iceburg in central London. Or a rainforest in Florida. It is impossible to replicate an animals natural surroundings, although zoos do a darn sight better job that some places.

Orca's seem to be especially kept in "unnatural" areas, because there is nothing natural about a 12000lb orca in a giant swimming pool. However, as they were put there some time ago, they can simply be let go as this documentary suggested. Most of them in SeaWorld were born there and therefore have no ability to "hunt", they would die very quickly.

You cant turn back the clock 30/40 years by saying its not right to have them in captivity. They are there so SeaWorld has no option but to care for them in the best possible way.

The show has created many a "orca lover" - I had very little interest in these beautiful animals before I saw this show. They raise masses of awareness through this show and the specific animals there are used to these activities and probably enjoy the interactive nature of the process. Whether its right or wrong.
Very true you can't turn back the clock but could you stop breeding them? No they couldn't be released into the wild and I don't think that's what anybody is asking for.

Yes they will enjoy the interaction with the trainers as they are beings that are intelligent and are social wether that be with a human or orca, they work together in the wild so cooperation is I would assume in their nature somewhat.

True I'm sure many people have discovered orcas due to a visit to sea world although they are not endangered in the wild so had people not discovered them at sea world it would make no difference to the orca but it may enrich the peoples lives, better education in schools would also teach people about orca and many other animals too.

Not wishing to argue just hopefully adding to the discussion. X
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Old 12-07-2013, 06:55 PM   #42
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I don't understand the argument that it would have been better if the BBC had made the film. Independent film makers would have no less or more of an agenda than the BBC. Please remember, Sea World repeatedly refused to participate or comment during the making of the film. And if it makes you feel any better because you want a broadcaster involved, CNN is promoting it. I have a very difficult time taking anyone's opinion seriously when they openly admit they have not seen the film and refuse to see it because they have already decided it is "one sided".

As far as orcas and dolphins already in captivity being unable to be rehabbed and released, that's untrue. It's already happening. Earth Island Institute and the Dolphin Project are currently experiencing great success. I suggest you do some research, understand that the breeding program Sea World conducts is inbreeding, they separate the calf from the mother when pods in the wild stay together for life. They tear families apart. They keep them in concrete tanks that are much too small. They spend their lives swimming in circles and performing stupid tricks. It is animal cruelty.
Just because Sea World spends a paltry amount of money doing rehab doesn't make them a wonderful organization. If I beat my kids but also volunteer at a homeless shelter does that make me a good person? Of course not. I'm still a child abuser. Sea World is an abuser. Sea World is in it for the money. That's the bottom line.
Think about the cetaceans that have no voice. I would rather my children learn to appreciate and protect animals in their natural habitat, even if that means they never see one except on film. It's our job to teach them all life is precious and whales and dolphins are not circus clowns.
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Old 12-07-2013, 07:01 PM   #43
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I just watched this on Iplayer and to be honest they didn't say much that surprised me.

SeaWorld is a Huge COMPANY which is there for the purposes of making money.

To boycott it on the basis of this show is futile, and potentially lead to a worse situation.

If by some miracle seaworld was boycotted into to bankruptcy by protesting "customers" it would be the animals that would inevitable suffer, the majority of them could not be "let free" They would be put to sleep or sold to other marine centres with even less experience that seaworld. Example that place in the Canary Islands.

Any animal that is confined isn't going to be happy about it, especially one cruelly snatched from its mother, but the 80's was a whole different culture. Things happened then that would NEVER happen now. We just reap the "benefits"

That is not to say that I in anyway condone the treatment of these animals, but it is what it is. The trainers do everything they can within the remits of what they have. People become complacent its a sad fact whether dog, horse or Orca!

The show is also only told for the perspective of the protestors. Any decent argument requires participation from both sides. And normally someone playing devils advocate this show had neither!!

SeaWorld is no different to any of the other zoos and marine centres its just more famous.
I have to agree. I would like to watch this. Wondering if it is appropriate for kids(9) to watch. I think we need to be of what is going on so that changes can be made for the greater good of all animals, but most zoos and aquariums are no better than SW. Even all the swim with the dolphin activities that Disney offers at Castaway Cay aren't really humane. Swimming with dolphins in their natural environment allowing them to interact with you as they choose is one thing. Having dolphins kiss you, pull you or whatever are not activities those animals would be doing on their own left living free. It is no more horrible to participate in that, then visiting SW. I think each person has to do what is right for them, but boycotting will not help like PP stated. I am not a fan of zoos(AK included). I feel unless the animal is injured, endangered or cannot survive in the wild they should not be in captivity. Though I will admit to be a hypocrite who will take my kids to the zoo from time to time. I guess for the reason already mentioned.
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Old 12-07-2013, 07:11 PM   #44
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An interesting fact I just found on U-tube, was sure I had seen footage at some point of the trainer being pulled in by the hair. I have! As confirmed by eye witnesses who had the misfortune to video the whole thing.

Yet the documentary claimed she was pulled in during the enrichment where she was cuddling up to him and it was her arm he pulled her in by.

They also stated that the "spotter" had lied when he said she had been pulled in by the hair.

Funny that these eye witnesses never appeared in this documentary. One would think they would be ideal if they could refute all that SeaWorld had claimed!!

Don't get me wrong, Orcas are clearly far to be big to be confined it was is basically a giant swimming pool. But I just don't buy into the whole its all seaworlds fault.

With regards to Tilikum being removed from him Mother as a baby this is true, and so were many other whales. But it was a different time then. It wasn't illegal, although unarguably immoral. They were working within the remits of the law at the time (although not the sinking of the other whales that died) Although I highly doubt someone from seaworld was actually on the boat, so it seems unlikely that this instruction came from them.

I just don't think you can blame seaworld for the evolution of what it is acceptable.

Just to be clear I DO NOT think what they did was right, but I am open to seeing both sides of the argument and don't think boycotting seaworld is the answer. I think it would be hypocritical of me to then visit Busch Gardens and Animal Kingdom on the basis that those animals aren't as smart as a whale so it doesn't matter as much!!

I have to agree with what your are saying. I feel SW was not the reason those animals were captured in that way. I think it is horrible, but wouldn't be done now(here in the US anyways). That was 30 years ago and lots of things have changed when it comes to respecting animal life. We still have a long way to go, but I agree again that picking and choosing what animals are OK in captivity and which ones aren't based on intelligence, how cute they are etc. isn't right. Again, I go back to my statement that the only animals that should be in captivity should be the injured, endangered. I also think people shouldn't buy animals at pet stores b/c of the way they are treated in puppy mills(though a completely differnt topic I know). We still have so much further to go in respecting animals, but we also have come a long way.
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Old 12-16-2013, 11:44 AM   #45
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I watched this last night, even though we are going in December. It was horrible but actually a bit of an eye-opener.

Maybe I was naive, I hadnt really thought about how they "got" the whales, I guess I had just assumed they were all born there.
see that rational doesnt really work because even if the whales were born there which some are - where did their parents come from and where their parents come from, etc?

it still leads back to these whales at some point being taken from the ocean.
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