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Old 11-26-2013, 09:50 AM   #16
mackay_j
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Originally Posted by jb68 View Post
Oh yes, there's nothing like a one-sided, agenda-driven, piece of propaganda to get everyone ranting!
I actually thought that the programe was done quite well- did you form that opinion from watching it? - I thought before I watched it it may aim to be as harsh as possible - it didn't -as you could clearly tell how much the trainers loved their animals. If it was too one sided then sea world have to take the blame as they refused to comment or take part in the programe. Also- I am wondering who in the bbc would have an agenda that would be against sea world- Has the beeb got shares in disney?

Also not sure anyone who commented before your post -was ranting
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Old 11-26-2013, 10:13 AM   #17
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Oh yes, there's nothing like a one-sided, agenda-driven, piece of propaganda to get everyone ranting!
Quite agree.

Funnily enough, mention of this programme reminded us we hadn't been for years so have decided to go in January. Irony, eh?

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Old 11-26-2013, 10:23 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by ford family View Post
Quite agree.

Funnily enough, mention of this programme reminded us we hadn't been for years so have decided to go in January. Irony, eh?

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That's why things like this are good - we all get to see the whole picture -the good and the bad of a company we plan to give our cash to - then each can decide if that's what they want to do.

Enjoy your trip
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Old 11-26-2013, 10:39 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mackay_j

As I said they are NOT actually physically cruel to the animals- if you have already got the passes - then they already have your money so no gain not taking your DD (I went back and forth about posting for that reason but thought that I would rather know than be in the dark so posted). If you have not got your tickets and your DD is old enough then why not let her watch and see what she wants to do. At least she would find out that they do not employ marine bio. to be trainers -the trainers are employed on there ability to look good on camera and stage- oh and must be able to swim. As I said before it is the company attitude/philosophy that seems wrong Not the day to day work the trainers do.

Hope I have not put a dampener on your trip - I really really don't want to do that to anyone.
Don't worry you haven't put a dampner on our trip.Ive told DD and shes not sure if she wants to watch it,i think shes worried her bubble will be burst!I am aware if documentaries and their propoganda, but I think we are intelligent enough to weigh up the pros and cons and form our own opinion! Thanks for posting.
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Old 11-26-2013, 10:50 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by ChipnDaleRule View Post
I am aware if documentaries and their propoganda, but I think we are intelligent enough to weigh up the pros and cons and form our own opinion! Thanks for posting.
Exactly. It's up to each individual person to form their own opinion.
I loved the movie. I thought it was very well done, thoughtful, and eye opening to the public.
No one made those trainers say bad things about Sea World- they each just wanted to share their personal stories. In fact, I remember one person that sides with Sea World, with no negativity towards them at all.
It is what you make it - to me it was a sad story that could apply about anywhere, zoos, wildlife 'farms', etc and Sea World just happened to be the example that was used here. Unfortunately not every one, especially company executives, see the animals for what they are rather than money makers.
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Old 11-26-2013, 11:55 AM   #21
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I haven't seen it, I've a feeling it'll just make me sad.

The whole animal/entertainment thing never bothered me until my last SW trip. For the first time ever, I just felt a little uncomfortable. Maybe it's an age thing!
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Old 11-26-2013, 12:01 PM   #22
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Link to another thread discussing Sea World and Blackfish.



http://www.disboards.com/showthread....ight=blackfish


Also another link to watch the movie "The Cove" about the Taiji dolphin slaughter and the connection with Sea World and cetacean captivity.

http://www.filmsforaction.org/watch/the_cove_2009/
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Old 11-26-2013, 01:19 PM   #23
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I just watched this on Iplayer and to be honest they didn't say much that surprised me.

SeaWorld is a Huge COMPANY which is there for the purposes of making money.

To boycott it on the basis of this show is futile, and potentially lead to a worse situation.

If by some miracle seaworld was boycotted into to bankruptcy by protesting "customers" it would be the animals that would inevitable suffer, the majority of them could not be "let free" They would be put to sleep or sold to other marine centres with even less experience that seaworld. Example that place in the Canary Islands.

Any animal that is confined isn't going to be happy about it, especially one cruelly snatched from its mother, but the 80's was a whole different culture. Things happened then that would NEVER happen now. We just reap the "benefits"

That is not to say that I in anyway condone the treatment of these animals, but it is what it is. The trainers do everything they can within the remits of what they have. People become complacent its a sad fact whether dog, horse or Orca!

The show is also only told for the perspective of the protestors. Any decent argument requires participation from both sides. And normally someone playing devils advocate this show had neither!!

SeaWorld is no different to any of the other zoos and marine centres its just more famous.
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Old 11-26-2013, 07:01 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by jb68 View Post
Oh yes, there's nothing like a one-sided, agenda-driven, piece of propaganda to get everyone ranting!
It's really a ying and yang thing. And I can see your point but seaworlds propaganda seems to me way worse.

I thought cast members where marine biologists from what I remember from there show that was before believe "it takes years of training to become a seaworld trainer"
Turns out if you want to be a seaworld trainer all you have to do is two things swim well and look good.

There was an actual marine biologist in the film his life was very different from an trainer at seaworld his philosophy STAY THE HELL AWAY FROM THE ORCAS.

The most amusing clip in the film was where they intercut the park tour guide with the facts of an expert

Tour guide: orcas tend to live a lot longer here because of all the veterinary care whales in the wild live 25-30 years.
Expert: it only took us half a dozen years to figure out whales live just as long as humans do some 80 to 100 years.
Tour guide: 35% of whales in the wild feature a curve in that dorsal fin they have.
Experts: all the males at seaworld have a collapsed dorsal fin whereas only 1 present do in the wild.
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Old 11-27-2013, 12:18 AM   #25
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Seaworld didn't comment in the film but did issue this:
Quote:
A Response to Blackfish
By Michael Scarpuzzi, Vice President of Zooligical Operations for SeaWorld San Diego
Shortly after 1:30 p.m. on Feb. 24, 2010, a SeaWorld Orlando trainer lost her life in a tragic accident involving one of the parks killer whales. The death of Dawn Brancheau was an occasion of almost unbearable sadness for those closest to Dawn  her family, friends and colleagues at SeaWorld. I was honored to know Dawn and count myself among those SeaWorld team members deeply affected by her loss.
Dawns death has been the subject of thousands of articles, broadcast news stories, blogs, books, and now a feature film called Blackfish. Many of these accounts trade in the details of Dawns death in graphic detail. They do so not to inform but, rather, regrettably, because of the desire to sensationalize. The three years since Dawns death have seen the emergence of individuals who have chosen not to honor her memory, but rather to use the events of Feb. 24, 2010 to advance their own interests. Some seek commercial gain. Others seek to forward a political or philosophical agenda. Still others appear to be engaged in self-promotion.
But anyone approaching this subject in good faith must recognize a simple fact: Our staff has interacted with killer whales  for veterinary care, training, shows, educational presentations, husbandry, exercise, play and enrichment  hundreds of times a day for nearly 50 years. The tragedy of Dawns death cannot and has not been ignored, but neither should the literally millions of safe interactions we have had with killer whales over that span of time. Blackfish focuses on a handful of incidents over our long history at the exclusion of everything else. Not a single interview with a guest who was inspired and enriched by their experience with killer whales at SeaWorld. Not one visitor who left SeaWorld more aware of the need to preserve the world around them. Not one word about the thousands of ill, orphaned and injured animals rescued by SeaWorld or the millions of dollars we dedicate to supporting conservation and research. There is no acknowledgment anywhere in the film of the great things SeaWorld does every day or the simple fact that our animals are healthy and passionately cared for.
I started at Sea World in 1975 and have witnessed the growth and changes that come with a company that is dedicated to understanding these magnificent animals. We have collected invaluable information about these animals that could not be obtained from observation in the wild. In the three years since Dawns death, we have again made significant changes at SeaWorld. We have altered how we care for, display and train these extraordinary animals. We have changed the facilities, equipment and procedures at our killer whale habitats. The care and educational presentation of these animals at SeaWorld has been made safer than ever before. Does Blackfish inform its viewers of that fact? No, it does not. And by that omission the film reveals itself not as a work of objective documentary filmmaking, but rather as something closer to propaganda. As we have said many times, there is simply no higher priority for us than the safety of our guests and staff and the welfare of our animals.
We understand that there will always be individuals and groups opposed to the care of animals in zoos and aquariums. We recognize that we must defend what we do and the manner in which we do it. Blackfish, like other works driven by the same agenda, ignores the extraordinary benefits to conservation, scientific research and education of Americas zoo and aquariums. But through it all SeaWorld remains the worlds most respected marine zoological institution. Our parks are staffed with skilled and caring zoological professionals, all of whom deserve to have their work celebrated, not dishonored by things like Blackfish.
Despite what the makers of this film may suggest, SeaWorld is the kind of organization that draws dedicated and passionate people like Dawn Brancheau. These are the men and women who have built SeaWorld into an extraordinary place, one that provides inspiring, enriching and educational experiences to more than 11 million people each year. That, not the inaccurate and shamefully misleading account in Blackfish, is what SeaWorld really is.
They do spend a lot of money on rescue & rehabilitation and even partner with Disney on the manatee rescues - so that's not a lie.

I have to documentary on sky+ to watch however from everything I have read about it I don't think it will change my views. It was made by a protest group. Had it been made by an independent group or organisation such as the BBC I might give it more credibility for being completely factual. Sensationalism and picking what they want you to see will have come into it even if they claim it is a balanced view.

Are Seaworld perfect? No, probably not however a lot of things happened a long while a ago and you can't change the past. And last time I checked you can not get a several ton animal to do anything it didn't want to: be it a horse or a dolphin or a whale.
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Old 11-27-2013, 12:56 AM   #26
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I watched it last night.

I haven't been to seaworld for years probably since 2003. I didn't enjoy it the last time we did go I thought the park felt a bit run down.

When I was younger I did think wow their jobs are amazing I would love to do that.

We won't be going any time soon yes what they do for some animals is amazing but I would rather donate the money to cause and they stopped the with the whales.

The capturing of the whales and the removing of the baby whale was very sad and that whale crying for her baby was heart breaking.
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Old 11-27-2013, 02:42 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by LeaversOnTour View Post
I just watched this on Iplayer and to be honest they didn't say much that surprised me.

SeaWorld is a Huge COMPANY which is there for the purposes of making money.

To boycott it on the basis of this show is futile, and potentially lead to a worse situation.

If by some miracle seaworld was boycotted into to bankruptcy by protesting "customers" it would be the animals that would inevitable suffer, the majority of them could not be "let free" They would be put to sleep or sold to other marine centres with even less experience that seaworld. Example that place in the Canary Islands.

Any animal that is confined isn't going to be happy about it, especially one cruelly snatched from its mother, but the 80's was a whole different culture. Things happened then that would NEVER happen now. We just reap the "benefits"

That is not to say that I in anyway condone the treatment of these animals, but it is what it is. The trainers do everything they can within the remits of what they have. People become complacent its a sad fact whether dog, horse or Orca!

The show is also only told for the perspective of the protestors. Any decent argument requires participation from both sides. And normally someone playing devils advocate this show had neither!!

SeaWorld is no different to any of the other zoos and marine centres its just more famous.
Spot on!
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Old 11-27-2013, 05:18 AM   #28
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Watched last night and it wasnt as bad as i expected, i thought they would show the deaths etc. The baby being taken away from its mother was awful and i doubt it was a one off. I also think its bad how many accidents etc sea world have coverd up over the years.

Makes me glad we didnt end up going and i doubt i ever will, even if the rides look awesome.
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Old 11-27-2013, 07:22 AM   #29
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An interesting fact I just found on U-tube, was sure I had seen footage at some point of the trainer being pulled in by the hair. I have! As confirmed by eye witnesses who had the misfortune to video the whole thing.

Yet the documentary claimed she was pulled in during the enrichment where she was cuddling up to him and it was her arm he pulled her in by.

They also stated that the "spotter" had lied when he said she had been pulled in by the hair.

Funny that these eye witnesses never appeared in this documentary. One would think they would be ideal if they could refute all that SeaWorld had claimed!!

Don't get me wrong, Orcas are clearly far to be big to be confined it was is basically a giant swimming pool. But I just don't buy into the whole its all seaworlds fault.

With regards to Tilikum being removed from him Mother as a baby this is true, and so were many other whales. But it was a different time then. It wasn't illegal, although unarguably immoral. They were working within the remits of the law at the time (although not the sinking of the other whales that died) Although I highly doubt someone from seaworld was actually on the boat, so it seems unlikely that this instruction came from them.

I just don't think you can blame seaworld for the evolution of what it is acceptable.

Just to be clear I DO NOT think what they did was right, but I am open to seeing both sides of the argument and don't think boycotting seaworld is the answer. I think it would be hypocritical of me to then visit Busch Gardens and Animal Kingdom on the basis that those animals aren't as smart as a whale so it doesn't matter as much!!
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Old 11-27-2013, 08:34 AM   #30
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We have been going to Seaworld since 2009. On all of my trips before the death of Dawn, I would sit there and cry. I never actually knew whether I was crying because the show was amazing or whether I was crying because I felt sad for the whales.

In October this year, we visited Sea World as usual and that night when we got back to the Hotel we watched Blackfish. It made both me and my Husband upset.
Since that, we couldn't face going back and doubt we ever will.

I think what upset me the most was the babies being taken from their Mums and the footage of the Mums crying for them!

I'm still really torn because I know they do rescue some animals and do lots of good things. But I can't shake the overriding feeling of sadness for the poor whales being held in captivity.
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