DVC RESALES
DVC RESALES

Go Back   The DIS Discussion Forums - DISboards.com > Disney Vacation Club > Purchasing DVC
facebooktwitterpinterestgoogle plusyoutubeDIS UpdatesDIS email updates
Register Chat FAQ Tickers Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read





Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 11-22-2013, 04:54 PM   #46
DannysMom
DIS Veteran
 
DannysMom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Central NJ
Posts: 2,023

Quote:
Originally Posted by fuernj View Post
Just this past weekend, our DVC sales person told us that in addition to losing RCI, Disney Cruise, etc., people purchasing resale would not be able to use their points at any DVC resort that opens after the resale takes place. For example, that would mean someone buying resale today would not be able to purchase DVC at the Polly when that opens. I asked the sales ugh several times in several different ways if I was understanding him correctly and he insisted this was a recent change. Anyone else hear this tidbit?
That sounds like a bit of salesman's misinformation. As that is clearly NOT how the system is currently set up.

Sent from my iPad using DISBoards App, please excuse any typos or autocorrects!
__________________
--Me! & DH ,- 10 YEARS OLD, mild CP, & a Disney fan & twins, & --4!
DVC BCV owners!
DannysMom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2013, 12:33 AM   #47
fuernj
Earning My Ears
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by lovin'fl View Post
can't buy at Poly or can't use points at Poly?
Sorry I wasn't more clear. The sales guy said if you bought DVC resale, you couldn't use DVC points to stay at a DVC resort that opened after the resale purchase. Sounded shady to me. Call me naive but I never thought of Disney as ever being shady or misleading. Then again, this was my first experience with a DVC salesperson.
fuernj is offline   Reply With Quote
|
The DIS
Register to remove

Join Date: 1997
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 1,000,000
Old 11-23-2013, 07:19 AM   #48
CarolMN
DVC Co-Moderator

 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 24,559
DISboards Moderator

Quote:
Originally Posted by fuernj View Post
Sorry I wasn't more clear. The sales guy said if you bought DVC resale, you couldn't use DVC points to stay at a DVC resort that opened after the resale purchase. ....(snip).......
That is not currently true and so far, has never been true.

Doesn't mean they aren't talking about doing that or that they couldn't do it in the future, but IMO, it is very unlikely. It would would require a lot of effort and changes.

For example, if they were to prevent resale points from reserving the Poly, that means that Poly points would be unable to reserve the portions of the existing resorts that are "owned" by resale points. That might not be much of a selling point for the Poly, because meany members like to stay at different places. There are a lot of resale points out there. Plus there would have to be a lot of changes for booking and to keep track of all the contract changes. - remember, once direct points are sold, those points now become resale points (unless Disney wants to buy the points back).

For all of the existing DVC resorts, the total number of direct points will always be decreasing since once they change hands they will be resale points (unless Disney buys the points back). Theoretically, members with Poly direct points could end up virtually shut out from the older resorts.

Anyway there is so much to think about & do before Disney can implement any program to prevent resale points from accessing a new resort! I just don't see it happening.
__________________
Best Wishes -



BWV - Early Morning on May 2, 2008
CarolMN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2013, 08:40 AM   #49
Judique
DIS Veteran
 
Judique's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Maryland,HHI & BWV
Posts: 2,356

Just want to welcome you to Disney Vacation Club - WELCOME HOME!!!

Also a special thanks for purchasing GFV's so that I can use my points to stay there at 7 months.

I was able to book 4 nights for my February trip - doing a split stay and also staying at my home resort.

I also checked out the 7 month status for today and at 8am there was some availability in studios. Later there was still full week open for one bedrooms.

We will have to be quick to catch those studios!

I like to stay at every new resort. I've done all the Florida ones except GFV but that is coming in Feb.

You've bought a gorgeous resort and I think you will be pretty happy with your new home.
Judique is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2013, 08:56 AM   #50
Minniesgal
DIS Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,085

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarolMN View Post
That is not currently true and so far, has never been true. Doesn't mean they aren't talking about doing that or that they couldn't do it in the future, but IMO, it is very unlikely. It would would require a lot of effort and changes. For example, if they were to prevent resale points from reserving the Poly, that means that Poly points would be unable to reserve the portions of the existing resorts that are "owned" by resale points. That might not be much of a selling point for the Poly, because meany members like to stay at different places. There are a lot of resale points out there. Plus there would have to be a lot of changes for booking and to keep track of all the contract changes. - remember, once direct points are sold, those points now become resale points (unless Disney wants to buy the points back). For all of the existing DVC resorts, the total number of direct points will always be decreasing since once they change hands they will be resale points (unless Disney buys the points back). Theoretically, members with Poly direct points could end up virtually shut out from the older resorts. Anyway there is so much to think about & do before Disney can implement any program to prevent resale points from accessing a new resort! I just don't see it happening.
I totally agree, I would hate to see Disney attempt to install and operate a system this complex on recent MDE performance.
Minniesgal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2013, 10:16 AM   #51
BenDiscipio
Earning My Ears
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 55

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minniesgal View Post
I totally agree, I would hate to see Disney attempt to install and operate a system this complex on recent MDE performance.
I, for one, would like to see it....if only to stop the cannibalizing of Disney direct sales. I'm frankly shocked that Disney has allowed it to go on as long as they have. They are handicapping their sales agents terribly by not nipping this in the bud.

There should be a CLEAR advantage to buying direct so, from my vantage point, they have three options:

1: Do what is spoken about in this thread and limit the use of resale points to only resorts built prior to the resale....or they could limit it even more by limiting resale points to resorts built by the time of the initial sale.

2: Reduce the DVC point costs for the currently limited collection of offerings, which right now are cheaper to pay cash for....like the disney cruise line, etc.

3: Barring the first 2 options, they could roll out some regular incentives, perhaps season pass discounts, etc. to those who purchased direct only.

Whatever option they choose, they must do something. A company rarely will allow their sales floor to operate with such an obvious impediment to sales. Disney is far to profitable, big, and savvy to allow this to continue. I think the writing has been on the wall for a little while now on this....
BenDiscipio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2013, 10:25 AM   #52
BenDiscipio
Earning My Ears
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 55

Too often on these boards, direct buyers are treated almost like newbie idiots for buying direct. Disney is allowing that to happen. In what business would a company allow that type of situation to continue? It is terrible business ....

Now, there's a fine line and gray area to this as, obviously, Disney needs to allow resale to be a viable alternative for people as, without a viable resale market, the timeshares would lose value after purchase.

But right now, the pendulum has swung too far against them...they need to gain some traction back. Right now, the only reason to buy direct is the 11 month window at a sought-after resort....that isn't enough, especially when they're trying to sell properties currently on the resale market.
BenDiscipio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2013, 10:50 AM   #53
Missyrose
DIS Veteran
 
Missyrose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Northern Va.
Posts: 7,307

Quote:
Originally Posted by BenDiscipio View Post

I, for one, would like to see it....if only to stop the cannibalizing of Disney direct sales. I'm frankly shocked that Disney has allowed it to go on as long as they have. They are handicapping their sales agents terribly by not nipping this in the bud.

There should be a CLEAR advantage to buying direct so, from my vantage point, they have three options:

1: Do what is spoken about in this thread and limit the use of resale points to only resorts built prior to the resale....or they could limit it even more by limiting resale points to resorts built by the time of the initial sale.

2: Reduce the DVC point costs for the currently limited collection of offerings, which right now are cheaper to pay cash for....like the disney cruise line, etc.

3: Barring the first 2 options, they could roll out some regular incentives, perhaps season pass discounts, etc. to those who purchased direct only.

Whatever option they choose, they must do something. A company rarely will allow their sales floor to operate with such an obvious impediment to sales. Disney is far to profitable, big, and savvy to allow this to continue. I think the writing has been on the wall for a little while now on this....
Why do you care so much if Disney's sales are being cannibalized? And for the record, Disney gets far more contracts back via foreclosure each month than get sold on the resale market, so it doesn't really seem to be the big problem you seem to think it is.
__________________
Missy Franklin (Pixel Dust) | Facebook: World of Yesterday, Tomorrow & Fantasy | Current TR: 8/14 Past TR: 5/14, 10/13, 1/13, 5/13, 10/12, 3/12 , 10/11, 10/10
'86, '90, '94, '98, '09, '10 -- Off site, 10/11 -- CR, 3/12 -- Windsor Hills, 10/12 -- BCV/AKV-Jambo, 01/13 -- BWV, 5/13 -- BLT, 10/13 -- YC CL, 5/14 -- BWV, 08/14 -- VGF/BLT, 12/14 -- BWV, 4/15 -- BLT, 10/15 -- BWV

Missyrose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2013, 11:39 AM   #54
dmunsil
Disney Uber-Nerd
 
dmunsil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Kirkland, WA, former home of Costco!
Posts: 801

Quote:
Originally Posted by BenDiscipio View Post
I, for one, would like to see it....if only to stop the cannibalizing of Disney direct sales. I'm frankly shocked that Disney has allowed it to go on as long as they have. They are handicapping their sales agents terribly by not nipping this in the bud.
I see your point, and I don't think it's a crazy way to think about it, but I think there's another way to look at it.

The people who are going to sell are going to sell, for the most part. It's actually not a very large percentage of the owners, because most people are happy with their DVC ownership. But some people, every year, will want to sell. And those people can find a buyer at some price, so almost all of those contracts will find buyers. Some will get withdrawn if the seller can't get a price they like, but most sellers are motivated to get out.

If Disney adds extra restrictions, it's not going to slow down or stop resales a significant amount. It might make resales less attractive to some people, which means the prices will have to fall until enough bargain hunters come in and buy.

If Disney got serious about making resale prices high, they would have no trouble competing with resale. On the contrary, high resale prices would be a great validator for higher direct prices.

And I can't speak for everyone, but whenever Disney adds restrictions it makes me mad because it lowers the resale value of my points if I ever want to sell. And if I was a potential buyer talking to a salesperson and they touted all the special amenities that only people who bought direct get, I would immediately think, "so then my ownership will drop in price even more when I try to sell, because of all the amenities that aren't transferable."

Obviously not everyone thinks of these things, but there must be more than me. Every restriction you add drives down the resale values, which makes some existing owners upset, and makes some buyers less likely to buy because these maneuvers show that Disney is not going to act to preserve the value of their ownership.

Frankly I don't doubt that the sales staff wants more resale restrictions but I hope that their opinion doesn't win out, because it's really short-term thinking and (IMO) not in Disney's best interests.
dmunsil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2013, 11:45 AM   #55
Dean
DIS Veteran
 
Dean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 31,912

Quote:
Originally Posted by fuernj View Post
Just this past weekend, our DVC sales person told us that in addition to losing RCI, Disney Cruise, etc., people purchasing resale would not be able to use their points at any DVC resort that opens after the resale takes place. For example, that would mean someone buying resale today would not be able to purchase DVC at the Polly when that opens. I asked the sales ugh several times in several different ways if I was understanding him correctly and he insisted this was a recent change. Anyone else hear this tidbit?
The only way they could do this would be to start a new timeshare system where all current owners would either have no access or be limited as DVD saw fit. It would only be for future resorts (or unsold current resort converted over) that were not part of the DVC. What they couldn't do would be to include the resort inside the current DVC but limit it to retail or qualified buyers.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BenDiscipio View Post
I, for one, would like to see it....if only to stop the cannibalizing of Disney direct sales. I'm frankly shocked that Disney has allowed it to go on as long as they have. They are handicapping their sales agents terribly by not nipping this in the bud.

There should be a CLEAR advantage to buying direct so, from my vantage point, they have three options:

1: Do what is spoken about in this thread and limit the use of resale points to only resorts built prior to the resale....or they could limit it even more by limiting resale points to resorts built by the time of the initial sale.

2: Reduce the DVC point costs for the currently limited collection of offerings, which right now are cheaper to pay cash for....like the disney cruise line, etc.

3: Barring the first 2 options, they could roll out some regular incentives, perhaps season pass discounts, etc. to those who purchased direct only.

Whatever option they choose, they must do something. A company rarely will allow their sales floor to operate with such an obvious impediment to sales. Disney is far to profitable, big, and savvy to allow this to continue. I think the writing has been on the wall for a little while now on this....
From a business model I don't disagree with you but I'd point out their options are limited. They cannot prevent access to DVC resorts and it's dramatically unlikely they could prevent access to RCI. All else is on the table. Some are naive enough to think DVC can do this by simply adding additional perks for qualified points but in reality, the only way to do it successfully is to make it painful not to have qualified points and that means significant limitations to non qualified points. Since they can't limit DVC resort access to current resorts, that means a significant loss of other options for non qualified points.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BenDiscipio View Post
Too often on these boards, direct buyers are treated almost like newbie idiots for buying direct. Disney is allowing that to happen. In what business would a company allow that type of situation to continue? It is terrible business ....

Now, there's a fine line and gray area to this as, obviously, Disney needs to allow resale to be a viable alternative for people as, without a viable resale market, the timeshares would lose value after purchase.

But right now, the pendulum has swung too far against them...they need to gain some traction back. Right now, the only reason to buy direct is the 11 month window at a sought-after resort....that isn't enough, especially when they're trying to sell properties currently on the resale market.
For most situations it is foolish to buy retail if one is aware of the options, there are some very few exceptions. Personally I don't think resale value has any impact on sales. Almost no one is going to go in thinking they'll sell later and buy retail with very few exceptions. Plus the only way to support retail is to hurt resale. It is not their responsibility to support the resale market. They'd be just as happy, likely more so, if you couldn't even sell it. EVERY resale purchased is a possible lost retail sale, those that say they would not have bougth except for retail do not affect this reality.
__________________
Dean
Dean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2013, 11:52 AM   #56
Minniesgal
DIS Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,085

If you look at the percentage numbers of original owners at all resorts resale is small beef to Disney and probably just noise around the lucrative direct market. I can't see them being motivated to implement a very complex system to deal with it
Minniesgal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2013, 11:57 AM   #57
jasonv1
Jedi Guard for Rapunzel
 
jasonv1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 21

Building on this post and the one it replied to....

I wouldn't have bought at all without the resale market. The resale market is valuable though as it is going to get me to the park more than in the past, which will generate far more revenue than the supposed "loss" of a DVC direct sale.

Restricting resale points further, like blocking them from using Poly if/when it goes live, won't really work because it wouldn't cover resale points bought *after* Poly was introduced. To achieve that they would really have to put a hard end date on the current system, saying that resale points bought after X can't be used for new DVC resorts.

As someone who will be giving Disney more vacation business than in the past, but not yet the majority of my vacation business (cruises), anything they do that restricts my options is only going to hurt them down the line.

The best thing to do would be to give direct buyers new privileges. Lowering the cruise points cost won't happen unless there are sustained periods where the boat is not full. As to the other resorts that only direct buyers can now access, I'm not sure how much of a selling point that is to the average buyer who just wants to go to the park every X months. If you can offer people something that gets them onto the property more, the cost of that benefit may very well be offset by the additional revenue of having them there.

From my standpoint, I would just want buying direct to be close in cost to buying resale, even if I have to make it up over the course of a year or two. The following are things that could sway me to buy direct:
  • Double my points for a year, even if the extra can't be banked
  • Half off resort points costs during low periods for X year(s)
  • Dining plan upgrades
  • Tickets to one or more theme park after hours events (Christmas, Food/Wine, Halloween, etc) for X year(s)
  • X annual passes for X year(s)
  • Free room upgrades (when available) upon check-in (restrict for X number of visits if required)

I'm not saying all of these are required, but if I can do the math and see that I'm getting back enough (in my mind) to justify the direct purchase, I'd do it. What do they really lose if they get me in the park more? If they upgrade my dining plan it is unlikely I'd eat all the allowed food anyway. And more points, or reduced points costs, or annual passes will only get me to the park more, which earns them revenue (but unfortunately no revenue for DVC). Room upgrades upon arrival cost nothing if the room wasn't going to be occupied.

From a business standpoint Disney as a whole should want me to step onto their property more, not less. Resale points will get me there every 6-24 months, whereas in the past it was every 3-5 years.

At the end of the day, DVC direct sales are a separate business that has to look out for its own bottom line, which is why these restrictions happen. It isn't there job to get you on the property, just to sell you the contract. Me? I just want to go to the park *more* and stay somewhere nice. If they want me to buy direct, they need to give me something that will get me to the park more (even if temporary), or increase my enjoyment of my time there in some way. The cruises are a bit too expensive to me given that I vacation 3-4 weeks a year, and trips outside the US48 will be rare due to airfare costs, so I need perks that involve the parks.

Whatever happens, I hope it only impacts new resales. I would also hope that we get notice ahead of time so we can add points if needed. Changing the rules on existing customers will make some people hesitate when considering adding points down the line.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Missyrose View Post
Why do you care so much if Disney's sales are being cannibalized? And for the record, Disney gets far more contracts back via foreclosure each month than get sold on the resale market, so it doesn't really seem to be the big problem you seem to think it is.
jasonv1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2013, 01:36 PM   #58
Deb & Bill
DVC-Trivia Contest, Apr-2006: Honorable Mention
 
Deb & Bill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: USA
Posts: 45,006

Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonv1 View Post
...From my standpoint, I would just want buying direct to be close in cost to buying resale, even if I have to make it up over the course of a year or two. The following are things that could sway me to buy direct:
  • Double my points for a year, even if the extra can't be banked
  • Half off resort points costs during low periods for X year(s)
  • Dining plan upgrades
  • Tickets to one or more theme park after hours events (Christmas, Food/Wine, Halloween, etc) for X year(s)
  • X annual passes for X year(s)
  • Free room upgrades (when available) upon check-in (restrict for X number of visits if required)
....
DVC has offered Builder's inventory for stays, but those points were limited in use to a specific resort (in that case, SSR, where there was a lot of inventory). They can't produce points out of nothing. And if they give you points, they can't sell those points until the next year.

Any other incentives have to be cost effective. I.E, not cost DVD money, such as hard event tickets, annual passes, dining plan upgrades, room upgrades (that would not take away from selling villas to pay for DVC member non-DVC trips which can be expensive). DVD has to pay for all those since those perks would come from another Disney division.

Maybe meet and greets for direct buyers. Maybe TOTWL for direct buyers only (and any BLT member guest).
__________________
Deb - DVC Member since '97
OKW and VWL Homes

Stop the madness. No more DVC construction.
Bring back Vacation Magic. Dump Disney Files!
Stopped drinking the Kool-aid long ago.
Deb & Bill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2013, 02:34 PM   #59
Dean
DIS Veteran
 
Dean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 31,912

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minniesgal View Post
If you look at the percentage numbers of original owners at all resorts resale is small beef to Disney and probably just noise around the lucrative direct market. I can't see them being motivated to implement a very complex system to deal with it
Then why go there at all? They've already started this ball rolling, if they didn't see it as important, they never would have initiated the current restrictions. EVERY resale is a potential lost retail sale and every lost retail sale is lost margin.
Quote:
I wouldn't have bought at all without the resale market. The resale market is valuable though as it is going to get me to the park more than in the past, which will generate far more revenue than the supposed "loss" of a DVC direct sale.
You would be the exception but Disney doesn't care if they lose a resale buyer, only that they lose ENOUGH retail buyers that the change clearly hurts them more than it helps them.

Quote:
Restricting resale points further, like blocking them from using Poly if/when it goes live, won't really work because it wouldn't cover resale points bought *after* Poly was introduced. To achieve that they would really have to put a hard end date on the current system, saying that resale points bought after X can't be used for new DVC resorts.
Not exactly accurate. What they'd have to do would be to create a new and separate timeshare system. They could then allow access to some and not others if they so chose depending on the rules in place for the new system. I think you're assuming that the current restrictions at the time of purchase are locked and that is NOT the case. Disney could have made the changes they did 3 years ago retroactive to ALL resale buyers and they can add additional restrictions to those unqualified points as they see fit assuming those restrictions are not in violation of the POS and related documents. Essentially they can't differentiate on usage at club resorts (current or future) but they can remove EVERYTHING else if they want.
Quote:
As someone who will be giving Disney more vacation business than in the past, but not yet the majority of my vacation business (cruises), anything they do that restricts my options is only going to hurt them down the line.
Unlikely. This is one of the beauties of a timeshare system from Disney's standpoint. In all likelihood someone will use the room whether it's you, me or someone else. At that point Disney as a whole will get some money and DVC loses nothing. And no matter how you use your points or when, they will generate income to Disney at some point and in some way. There's no way for an owner to truly hurt Disney in their points usage patterns (or not using them) or in selling for some reason.

Quote:
From my standpoint, I would just want buying direct to be close in cost to buying resale, even if I have to make it up over the course of a year or two. The following are things that could sway me to buy direct:
Double my points for a year, even if the extra can't be banked
Half off resort points costs during low periods for X year(s)
Dining plan upgrades
Tickets to one or more theme park after hours events (Christmas, Food/Wine, Halloween, etc) for X year(s)
X annual passes for X year(s)
Free room upgrades (when available) upon check-in (restrict for X number of visits if required)
I think those days are long gone except for some very specific and limited options. At one point resale was roughly 20% of retail but those days are gone even when we're currently at a recent high point. As I said before, there really aren't enough perks they can/will add that would be enough to affect this balance. They only way to push people to retail is to take away from resale. Perks are generally little or no cost items. They could introduce a VIP system, they could tie extensions to retail purchases but as far as just throwing on gifts to entice people to buy resale, don't expect much and what you do get will be mostly window dressing.
__________________
Dean
Dean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2013, 02:40 PM   #60
Nabas
Mouseketeer
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 307

Quote:
Originally Posted by BenDiscipio View Post
I, for one, would like to see it....if only to stop the cannibalizing of Disney direct sales. I'm frankly shocked that Disney has allowed it to go on as long as they have. They are handicapping their sales agents terribly by not nipping this in the bud.
Resales make up less than 15% of the market, hardly a number that threatens Disney market dominance.

Frankly, many of those buying resale would never pay Disney's direct prices so the number of direct sales lost to the resale market is even lower.

In order to justify Disney's direct prices, they need a small but robust resale market. It's difficult to justify charging $150/point if "restricted" resales are selling for $20/point.

Disney needs a strong resale market and as long as it remains small, would be foolish to place unnecessary restrictions on resales.
Nabas is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

DVC-Resales.com | 1-800-550-6493 (Contact The Timeshare Store) | DVC Resale Listings

facebooktwittergoogle plus youtube itunesDIS Updates
GET OUR DIS UPDATES DELIVERED BY EMAIL



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:55 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Copyright © 1997-2014, Werner Technologies, LLC. All Rights Reserved.

You Rated this Thread: