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Old 11-05-2013, 11:54 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by Anjelica View Post
Not necessary and taking it to an extreme don't you think? Nothing of what you just stated above can be inferred by what I stated.
More so when you don't clip the quote.

You bet I can infer such a thing.

You have no more to suggest your subjective beliefs are any more relevant when others are deciding in what ways to help others.
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Old 11-05-2013, 01:48 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by Granny square View Post
More so when you don't clip the quote.

You bet I can infer such a thing.

You have no more to suggest your subjective beliefs are any more relevant when others are deciding in what ways to help others.
You inferred incorrectly then....

Subjective beliefs? Which belief is that exactly you are referring to?
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Old 11-05-2013, 02:09 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by ilovemk76 View Post
These stories confuse me. If I could loan out my Mercedes and it my grand kids designer clothes why would I not also buy them food? Food is far more important than designer clothes.

I must think differently. I have paid to drop a new transmission into my sister's car. Bought many people food, when I knew they need some extra help. Bought clothes for kids who needed it.

Food is the most basic need. Why would they not supply that when they obviously have the means?
I think that gets into a huge can of worms about gifts vs assistance with day-to-day living, whether a moral obligation to support adult family members exists, where the line is drawn between helping and enabling, and issues of individual family dynamics. Is a hard-working, successful adult obligated to scale back his/her own standard of living to support an adult child? A sibling? A parent? Should grandparents lose the "right" to spoil their grandkids if their adult children lack the resources to make ends meet?

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Originally Posted by crisi View Post
Our foodbank will take almost anything (can't be past the expiration date). It must be nice to be a food bank with enough donations that you can ask for people not to bring in Mac n Cheese. Reminds me of dog rescue organizations that have so many homes looking for dogs that they can afford to turn up their noses at families that don't have a fence.

Of course, they have preferred foods - they'd rather see things with decent nutritional value, fewer boxes of mac-n-cheese, white pasta, cans of green beans. They'd like it more if people shopped for the food shelf with "healthy, easy, and shelf stable" in mind - but they know a lot of their food comes from "Mom, we are having a food drive at school, what should I bring?" where a can of green beans or peaches in heavy syrup gets grabbed from a shelf - or worse, the can of beets that you thought maybe your family might eat sometime when you bought it two years ago. It would always be nice to get more tuna fish and canned chicken. The LOVED the Girl Scout cookies we brought in last year (I donate my extras), its a big treat when something like cookies shows up on a shelf.
That's how ours is too. It is run through the church affiliated with my girls' school so they do get a fair number of donors who are shopping specifically for the food bank and buying healthy and we're in a small town/farming area so they get produce and meat donations as well, but they also get a lot of "The food drive is today, what can I take" pantry leftovers.
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Old 11-05-2013, 03:16 PM   #94
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An organic-only/sugarless-only food bank is a good idea only if if the mission is to feed people who are ill and on restricted diets that they otherwise cannot afford to follow. For a general pantry it is totally ridiculous.

Locally, the one that drives me crazy is Scouting for Food. Their restriction is that they will only take food that is in cans; no boxes or pouches. I've been that car-less person who had to take the bus or walk two miles to get my groceries, and let me tell you, weight matters. Normally when I buy for pantries I make it a point to get lots of tuna in pouches, because it is so much easier to carry, and you don't need a can opener to get into it. However, the boy scouts won't accept those, which is lunacy.

One thing that I like to give to pantries is often met with puzzlement, so I've taken to labeling it "for cooking", because it helps with all that boxed mac and cheese: canned evaporated skim milk. I use it myself for cooking rather than fresh milk, because it thickens up nicely though it is low in fat. I don't drink it, and I wouldn't unless I had no fresh milk alternative, but if your access to fresh milk is limited, it works very well to let you keep the fresh milk for drinking.
(I also buy a few cans of Hershey's syrup, too -- it's a nice treat for kids to get to have some chocolate milk now and again.)

When I shop for pantry donations I do try to buy low-salt versions if I can, but that's as far as I go on the "healthy" thing. Many of the folks who need to use pantries have very limited cooking skills and very few utensils at home; they tend to prefer processed foods because they are familiar and are easier to prepare.

Oh, the one "no thank you" I'll agree with is the dreaded canned pumpkin. Folks, that stuff is well-nigh inedible unless you are using it to make pie, and the average pantry client isn't going to be so hard-up for pumpkin pie that they will be looking for the cheapest ingredient at the food pantry while paying out of their limited funds for the more expensive needed ingredients.
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Old 11-05-2013, 03:46 PM   #95
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Rather than donate food, I donate money to my regional food bank. Food banks do have overhead and money can be just as useful (maybe even more so) than mac n' cheese and soup that is 2 months away from expiration. Not that food donations aren't helpful, but money to pay the electric bill can be a good way to help too.
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Old 11-05-2013, 03:51 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by NotUrsula View Post
Oh, the one "no thank you" I'll agree with is the dreaded canned pumpkin. Folks, that stuff is well-nigh inedible unless you are using it to make pie, and the average pantry client isn't going to be so hard-up for pumpkin pie that they will be looking for the cheapest ingredient at the food pantry while paying out of their limited funds for the more expensive needed ingredients.
I make both pumpkin bread and soup with canned pumpkin, but I really doubt those are really the sorts of things that spring to mind for the average food shelf shopper. (I happen to LIKE pumpkin and so go looking for pumpkin flavored things to make - especially at this time of year) And the big issue is that its one of those foods that picks up the taste of the can quickly - so you have to use it within weeks of buying it. When it shows up on the food shelf its often one of those "back of the pantry" donations - at that point its inedible - even in pie. (the dog MIGHT eat it, mine likes pumpkin - but he turns up his nose if it smells too much like can)
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Old 11-05-2013, 03:55 PM   #97
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I agree completely, but when your children are participating in food drives they usually are not allowed to contribute cash, so I fill a box at the bottom of the pantry at this time of year, and the kids know that they should grab from it when they need items for food drives.

For the drive at my office I give cash and usually two sacks of food; heavy on the protein.
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Old 11-05-2013, 04:01 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NotUrsula View Post
An organic-only/sugarless-only food bank is a good idea only if if the mission is to feed people who are ill and on restricted diets that they otherwise cannot afford to follow. For a general pantry it is totally ridiculous.

Locally, the one that drives me crazy is Scouting for Food. Their restriction is that they will only take food that is in cans; no boxes or pouches. I've been that car-less person who had to take the bus or walk two miles to get my groceries, and let me tell you, weight matters. Normally when I buy for pantries I make it a point to get lots of tuna in pouches, because it is so much easier to carry, and you don't need a can opener to get into it. However, the boy scouts won't accept those, which is lunacy.

One thing that I like to give to pantries is often met with puzzlement, so I've taken to labeling it "for cooking", because it helps with all that boxed mac and cheese: canned evaporated skim milk. I use it myself for cooking rather than fresh milk, because it thickens up nicely though it is low in fat. I don't drink it, and I wouldn't unless I had no fresh milk alternative, but if your access to fresh milk is limited, it works very well to let you keep the fresh milk for drinking.
(I also buy a few cans of Hershey's syrup, too -- it's a nice treat for kids to get to have some chocolate milk now and again.)

When I shop for pantry donations I do try to buy low-salt versions if I can, but that's as far as I go on the "healthy" thing. Many of the folks who need to use pantries have very limited cooking skills and very few utensils at home; they tend to prefer processed foods because they are familiar and are easier to prepare.

Oh, the one "no thank you" I'll agree with is the dreaded canned pumpkin. Folks, that stuff is well-nigh inedible unless you are using it to make pie, and the average pantry client isn't going to be so hard-up for pumpkin pie that they will be looking for the cheapest ingredient at the food pantry while paying out of their limited funds for the more expensive needed ingredients.
Actually canned pumpkin is great to add to spaghetti sauce, chili, casseroles, stews etc. It gives these foods an added boost of Vitamin A and some C. Of course, you would have to write this little tip on the can for anyone to understand how to use it.

Our church's food pantry always has canned pumpkin and most of the little old ladies will let people know how they can use it when they give them a bag of food.
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Old 11-05-2013, 05:40 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by ilovemk76 View Post
These stories confuse me. If I could loan out my Mercedes and it my grand kids designer clothes why would I not also buy them food? Food is far more important than designer clothes.

I must think differently. I have paid to drop a new transmission into my sister's car. Bought many people food, when I knew they need some extra help. Bought clothes for kids who needed it.

Food is the most basic need. Why would they not supply that when they obviously have the means?
Most likely they would.

I think that's one of the issues with these post in general. We only see a small "snapshot" in time. So we see the person driving a Mercedes and using a snap card and we make assumptions.

Most grandparents help their kids through out the year and then we see them buying "gifts" at Christmas or see the kids with those Christmas gifts, we get the standard "their on welfare they shouldn't have those things".

People here have a very "Oliver Twist" mentality toward the poor. A mother on food stamps should never buy or bake her kid a birthday cake because ***gasp*** that money could be better used for some thing else. A kid on welfare should never get a Christmas toy because that's abuse. If you can buy a toy for your kid, you can get off of welfare. As if being on public assistance means you are undeserving of any thing but scrapping by with the bare minimum.

Let me throw out a hypothetical situation to anyone.

I'm a grandmother, my daughter is on food stamps for whatever reason. I decide to take the family, daughter and kids to wdw. You hear them talking about their upcoming trip in the supermarket using food stamps. Do you then decide it's fraud (I'm betting yep)? Is the daughter an food stamp abuser because she doesn't turn down the trip?
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Last edited by eliza61; 11-05-2013 at 06:04 PM.
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Old 11-05-2013, 09:13 PM   #100
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I live in Saskatchewan and my bill is 100 a month or more. It was 65 for unlimited text and talking to people on sasktel mobility. However I live where everyone is long distance and not everyone has saktel and we go to the states a lot so had to add on the north American plan. That being said the system Canada has set up compared to the states is like apples and oranges. I lived in the states for 5 years and cant say I'm an expert but they give food stamps and such where Canada you just get money. People still get money for assistance and such just not like they do in Canada. I have stopped giving to the food bank because of what I personally saw, the one thing that has kept in my memory is this aboriginal man driving up with his big brand new 4x4 smoke in hand coming in and getting food while there discussing loudly how much money they get blah blah, then while driving away his bumper sticker said "keep working whitey, I need another new truck." I have never given another thing since. I think in Canada there is way more people taking advantage of it. Our kids school adopts families in our city and we give a ton because it seems less likely these people can scam. I also have a strong opinion on people taking advantage of the system and how people say they can't find work. Sorry but hard to believe when Canada is bringing in as many foreigners as they can to fill jobs. Flame me if you will but my opinion is formed not on one thing I have seen but many. While true some people truly need assistance most I have seen do not.
You do realize to that Aboriginal man you are judging, you are a foreigner unless you too are aboriginal but based on the tone of your post I don't think so. I live in Canada and I completely disagree with almost everything in your post.
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Old 11-06-2013, 06:40 AM   #101
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Its cheaper to get a pre-paid phone plan with data then it is to pay for a landline (especially if you factor in long distance) and internet. Most pre-paid phone plans offer smartphones, or you can get an iphone from ebay or an older version from a friend or relative.

Also going the wired route can involve credit checks and deposits that a "poor" person may not be able swing, plus there is an issue if they don't have a reliable place to live. If they are not "home secure" (which applies to a surprising number of the working poor), than a landline/wired internet isn't going to work for them.

Really if you are going to be a total scrooge, you should be pissed if you see a "poor" person WITHOUT a smartphone, because going a traditional wired route is more expensive, and we all know that the extra money could be put towards food.
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Old 11-06-2013, 09:20 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by ilovemk76 View Post
These stories confuse me. If I could loan out my Mercedes and it my grand kids designer clothes why would I not also buy them food? Food is far more important than designer clothes.

I must think differently. I have paid to drop a new transmission into my sister's car. Bought many people food, when I knew they need some extra help. Bought clothes for kids who needed it.

Food is the most basic need. Why would they not supply that when they obviously have the means?
I'm not sure this adds to the discussion but my parents didn't buy us food because they were out of state and unaware of how bad things had gotten. There is a lot of shame involved when you fall on hard times, and it is compounded by the constant judgment of others.
Not every extended family has the means either. My parents were well off, but as retirees they were still on a budget. How many people can take on the extra unexpected burden of 3 people for an extended period of time?

I do feel like my situation could happen to just about anyone. As a 20 something with young kids, I was prepared for an event to happen. We didn't rely on credit, we had savings... but two events? I had a serious injury requiring multiple surgeries, two young kids at home and my husband decided he couldn't take the pressure and took off with all our money. Things can turn very quickly with a big life event, or especially two. How many middle class families are prepared to weather that these days? even ones making the right decisions? And it happens...

I remember one day the water was shut off. I had tried for weeks to get the bill turned over, but the company wanted permission from HIM too since it was his name on the account. He had it forwarded the bills to his friend's house, so I had no idea what was owed on it, if he was paying it, nor could I get it switched over since he was just gone... I called when it was shut off and they still wouldn't tell me what was owed, I went to the office with cash and begged and finally the lady told me the total. I was short just a few dollars, and I couldn't help it, I burst into tears. The lady looked at me and said "ma'am if you don't want to have to pay a reconnect fee you shouldn't be so irresponsible with your bills."
When you are in that situation you are being judged constantly at every turn, even if you are doing everything you can to get out of it.
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Old 11-06-2013, 09:27 AM   #103
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You do realize to that Aboriginal man you are judging, you are a foreigner unless you too are aboriginal but based on the tone of your post I don't think so. I live in Canada and I completely disagree with almost everything in your post.
Actually I'm not a foreigner and I'm not going to debate that on this thread. Everything I said was true and I do believe Canada should do stuff like food stamps so people's kids aren't starving because their parents spent all their money on booze and smokes. I believe you are the one that posted something about not judging because someone is smoking while lined up at the food bank because its an addiction? Smokes cost nearly 15 dollars a pack so yeah I am going to judge someone who can afford cigarettes but says they can not afford food. People need food to survive they don't need cigarettes. I am a person that also believes Canada should also implement what some of the states are, drug testing to get a welfare check. People fall on hard times and need help sometimes and it's people that take advantage of that that make people reluctant to just blindly give and hope the truly needy get it. I would rather give to people I know that need it, like the little boy that I fed lunch to and sometimes dinner to for nearly two years (with his parents permission) because his parents couldn't. Eventually the bank took their house. They both worked min wage jobs and still couldn't make ends meet. Those are the people that deserve the help.
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Old 11-06-2013, 10:23 AM   #104
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I'm a grandmother, my daughter is on food stamps for whatever reason. I decide to take the family, daughter and kids to wdw. You hear them talking about their upcoming trip in the supermarket using food stamps. Do you then decide it's fraud (I'm betting yep)? Is the daughter an food stamp abuser because she doesn't turn down the trip?
Do I think she is? NO. But most people would jump to the conclusion that she was without knowing the background info. And that's the problem with so many people thinking that there's so many abusers in the system. They hear one story about how some kid is going to Disney while their mom used food stamp to pay for their groceries, and they tell that to all of their friends and relatives. Next thing you know, all food stamp users are abusers, shouldn't own cell phones, and should't buy skittles with their food stamps.

It's ridiculous. People really need to mind their own business and stop gossiping so much.
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Old 11-06-2013, 11:25 AM   #105
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Actually I'm not a foreigner and I'm not going to debate that on this thread. Everything I said was true and I do believe Canada should do stuff like food stamps so people's kids aren't starving because their parents spent all their money on booze and smokes. I believe you are the one that posted something about not judging because someone is smoking while lined up at the food bank because its an addiction? Smokes cost nearly 15 dollars a pack so yeah I am going to judge someone who can afford cigarettes but says they can not afford food. People need food to survive they don't need cigarettes. I am a person that also believes Canada should also implement what some of the states are, drug testing to get a welfare check. People fall on hard times and need help sometimes and it's people that take advantage of that that make people reluctant to just blindly give and hope the truly needy get it. I would rather give to people I know that need it, like the little boy that I fed lunch to and sometimes dinner to for nearly two years (with his parents permission) because his parents couldn't. Eventually the bank took their house. They both worked min wage jobs and still couldn't make ends meet. Those are the people that deserve the help.
Nope. That wasn't me. And smokes can be purchased for much less than $15 a pack. My sister buys 200 for $20. Everyone comes from somewhere else. Even Aboriginals came from somewhere else via ice bridge. I think there are a lot more people out there NOT spending their money on booze and smokes than there are people who do. The fact is child care is expensive and welfare doesn't give a person much money. Going to a food bank is not an easy thing to do. I believe people deserve to keep their dignity and not be judged by other who assume if they've fallen on hard times it's because they made bad decisions. Sometimes things happen. And those things can be beyond your control.


ETA- I think what I'd like you to come away from this conversation is we all all really alike. Our similarities are stronger than our differences. Whether a person is white, aboriginal or foreign we are the same. We all deserve respect and dignity. There may be people who make bad choices but we don't walk in another's shoes. Feeding ones family is a right. Anyone of us could have ended up in a situation where we needed help. The least we can do as human beings is not judge another.

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