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Old 11-05-2013, 08:05 AM   #241
daytondisney
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Originally Posted by mom2rtk View Post
Yes, I think the cubicle bean counters view tihis as a zero sum game.
How does Disney get their beans?

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That they can spread the crowds out the way they want to spread them out.
Wouldn't Disney getting beans be conditioned on spreading out crowds the way the crowd wants to be spread out?

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That they can take a few fastpasses away from their loyal repeat guests who went to the trouble of figuring that system out...... and spread those FPs out to the ones who never quite figured the system out, never bothered to do the research, never felt like getting up early on vacation.
Like they did when they instituted FP in the first place?

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And think that instead of having some of their guests really happy with their trips, they can have all of their guests really happy with their trips.
Ain't that the whole point of going into the amusement park business in the first place?

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I think they underestimate and take for granted their loyal guests who return year after year at their own peril.
In deciding whose estimation might be most accurate, best to go with the one who has millions of dollars riding on it.

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Yes, I know many will chime in and say they are loyal repeat guests and love the new FP+ system. The question is not whether those exist. It's clear they do. The question is how many of the other sort is out there.... the sort who will no longer find Disney a good vacation value once ride rationing truly gets under way.
You're probably not going to like the answer, but Disney already knows.
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Old 11-05-2013, 08:06 AM   #242
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Every single time Disney rolls out something new, it's doom and gloom for months here. Then, once it's all fully installed, no one much cares anymore. When Disney Dining came out? Same gloom and doom. Free dining? Yep. Change to the FP system with no late returns? Death and destruction everywhere, for all intents and purposes.
Is this system different? Yep. Will it impact those going soon that had no idea this was happening? Maybe. Will it all shake out? Yep.

And Universal? Their system works solely based on the number of resort guests they have. Anyone that isn't staying at a US/IoA resort has the option to buy the FoTL pass...for varying amounts based on the time of year and expected crowds. The vast majority of people don't pay for this. That's why it works.
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Old 11-05-2013, 08:24 AM   #243
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Originally Posted by goofy4tink View Post
Every single time Disney rolls out something new, it's doom and gloom for months here. Then, once it's all fully installed, no one much cares anymore. When Disney Dining came out? Same gloom and doom. Free dining? Yep. Change to the FP system with no late returns? Death and destruction everywhere, for all intents and purposes.
Is this system different? Yep. Will it impact those going soon that had no idea this was happening? Maybe. Will it all shake out? Yep.

And Universal? Their system works solely based on the number of resort guests they have. Anyone that isn't staying at a US/IoA resort has the option to buy the FoTL pass...for varying amounts based on the time of year and expected crowds. The vast majority of people don't pay for this. That's why it works.
Imagine that people on a fan base site being passionate about well... what the site is about. So are you saying that all the doom and gloom is just here with just those uber fans? Sorry but you would be very wrong. On the dining plan and the fast past time changes and the napkins etc.yes, but this NO WAY!!

Disney is changing the way they do business. There are many Disney apologists out there and frankly you sound like one of them. Yes Disney makes changes blah blah blah it all works out in the end and business returns as usual.

Sometimes a company can make a mistake so big that it can alter their course and this very well just may be that change. I am not saying it will but you have to admit this very well could. This is unlike anything else they have done.

You have to admit that it is very interesting to see how all of this is playing out and to see which way Disney will turn next. I find it all to be very exciting to watch. Perhaps because I do think Disney can fall flat on its face but that is just me. Do not get me wrong I am not hoping for it I just know that we live in the most greedy of times run by a bunch of imperfect people so anything is possible.

Hey, I was obsessed with watching JCPenney for the past 2 years. Especially watching the arrogant CEO trying to tell us how we wanted to shop! Seeing that play out was very entertaining and there was no fan site to go to discuss it all. I say let the discussion continute!!
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Old 11-05-2013, 08:33 AM   #244
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I'm not sure how the Disney theme park division is structured but wouldn't it have made more sense to start in one of the smaller parks. IDK if they are rolling it out to all their parks or not but if so they could of at least worked the computer bug(MDE site problems,MB linking problems ect..) problems out of the system in a less invasive way instead of trying to do it in the largest most busy resort. Then when that was functional start testing the fastpass plus @ WDW.
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Old 11-05-2013, 08:38 AM   #245
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Originally Posted by aubriee View Post
That's what I'm afraid of too. There was someone on one of these FP+ threads who posted that he planned on getting a DAS for each of his six family members so they could have six return times at all times. He was very bold about what he planned to do and said he had no guilt whatsoever about it. He said Disney was leaving offsiters no choice but to cheat the system.
I wish him luck with that. He sounds like a stellar human being.
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Old 11-05-2013, 08:38 AM   #246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peyjax View Post
Imagine that people on a fan base site being passionate about well... what the site is about. So are you saying that all the doom and gloom is just here with just those uber fans? Sorry but you would be very wrong. On the dining plan and the fast past time changes and the napkins etc.yes, but this NO WAY!!

Disney is changing the way they do business. There are many Disney apologists out there and frankly you sound like one of them. Yes Disney makes changes blah blah blah it all works out in the end and business returns as usual.

Sometimes a company can make a mistake so big that it can alter their course and this very well just may be that change. I am not saying it will but you have to admit this very well could. This is unlike anything else they have done.

You have to admit that it is very interesting to see how all of this is playing out and to see which way Disney will turn next. I find it all to be very exciting to watch. Perhaps because I do think Disney can fall flat on its face but that is just me. Do not get me wrong I am not hoping for it I just know that we live in the most greedy of times run by a bunch of imperfect people so anything is possible.

Hey, I was obsessed with watching JCPenney for the past 2 years. Especially watching the arrogant CEO trying to tell us how we wanted to shop! Seeing that play out was very entertaining and there was no fan site to go to discuss it all. I say let the discussion continute!!
I toally agree and was thinking JCPenney as I typed my last post in this thread.

It is fascinating to watch from a business perspective. Can they make it work? Many here think Disney can just put anything out there and people will still flock to the parks. Maybe that's true. Or maybe it isn't.

And I agree with your analysis of the situation. This is bigger than napkins and refillable mugs. This is the very core of why people plunk down the big bucks to walk through the gates. I can visit Disney and have a great time with generic napkins. I can visit and have a great time without the dining plan. I can roll my eyes as I walk past the huge lines at Starbucks on Main Street then go right on off to have an awesome day. I don't think I can visit Disney and be happy once ride rationing rolls out. All the rest of that stuff is just extra. This is the core of the park experience.
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Old 11-05-2013, 08:40 AM   #247
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Originally Posted by daytondisney View Post

You're probably not going to like the answer, but Disney already knows.
And my guess, is it's the smallest number.
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Old 11-05-2013, 08:40 AM   #248
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Yep. Just moving stuff around.

The idea is to move the FPs in a way to create more profit. Therefore, they transform a previously "free" service into a monetized one. I don't know how they plan to do that, but I bet they do.
They might, but I suspect not because they could have have done this with existing FP system - X number for free the $Y for some extras.

A common fallacy (not yours) is thinking that this is meant to fix something that's broken. I think it is to build on the ultimate MDE platform for a better overall experience for more consumers in the future.
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Old 11-05-2013, 08:44 AM   #249
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Originally Posted by peyjax View Post

You have to admit that it is very interesting to see how all of this is playing out and to see which way Disney will turn next. I find it all to be very exciting to watch. Perhaps because I do think Disney can fall flat on its face but that is just me. Do not get me wrong I am not hoping for it I just know that we live in the most greedy of times run by a bunch of imperfect people so anything is possible.

Hey, I was obsessed with watching JCPenney for the past 2 years. Especially watching the arrogant CEO trying to tell us how we wanted to shop! Seeing that play out was very entertaining and there was no fan site to go to discuss it all. I say let the discussion continute!!
Totally OT, but JCP was a fascinating train wreck. The CEO tried to teach his customers what they really wanted, literally insulted them, and totally alienated the company's base.

Honestly, I don't think Disney is going to fall on its face, certainly not in so spectacular a fashion, but I do wonder if some are getting a bit anxious about how to make the pre-booking rules work in a way that's best for Disney.
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Old 11-05-2013, 08:44 AM   #250
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Can we revisit the Universal philosophy on this and why many think it wouldn't work or Disney wouldn't do it?

I would happily pay for an express pass either for unlimited or for one ride a day FP type entrance. I've seen a lot of people say the same.
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Old 11-05-2013, 08:46 AM   #251
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And I agree with your analysis of the situation. This is bigger than napkins and refillable mugs. This is the very core of why people plunk down the big bucks to walk through the gates. I can visit Disney and have a great time with generic napkins. I can visit and have a great time without the dining plan. I can roll my eyes as I walk past the huge lines at Starbucks on Main Street then go right on off to have an awesome day. I don't think I can visit Disney and be happy once ride rationing rolls out. All the rest of that stuff is just extra. This is the core of the park experience.
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Old 11-05-2013, 08:48 AM   #252
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Originally Posted by peyjax View Post
Imagine that people on a fan base site being passionate about well... what the site is about. So are you saying that all the doom and gloom is just here with just those uber fans? Sorry but you would be very wrong. On the dining plan and the fast past time changes and the napkins etc.yes, but this NO WAY!!

Disney is changing the way they do business. There are many Disney apologists out there and frankly you sound like one of them. Yes Disney makes changes blah blah blah it all works out in the end and business returns as usual.

Sometimes a company can make a mistake so big that it can alter their course and this very well just may be that change. I am not saying it will but you have to admit this very well could. This is unlike anything else they have done.

You have to admit that it is very interesting to see how all of this is playing out and to see which way Disney will turn next. I find it all to be very exciting to watch. Perhaps because I do think Disney can fall flat on its face but that is just me. Do not get me wrong I am not hoping for it I just know that we live in the most greedy of times run by a bunch of imperfect people so anything is possible.

Hey, I was obsessed with watching JCPenney for the past 2 years. Especially watching the arrogant CEO trying to tell us how we wanted to shop! Seeing that play out was very entertaining and there was no fan site to go to discuss it all. I say let the discussion continute!!
JCPenney is a retailer selling clothing and household goods not ny different than a thousand other retailers. Its brick and mortar stores operate in close proximity to dozens of other national chains, as well as local indies, most times within the same physical structure (mall). Its online operation coexists with millions of other retailers and it has failed to set itself apart.

If using JCP or New Coke's failure in a saturated soft drink market provides hope that Disney will see the rrror of its ways, cling to it. If I was looking for hope, Netflix might be more analogous.
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Old 11-05-2013, 08:49 AM   #253
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Originally Posted by AmyB2006 View Post
Can we revisit the Universal philosophy on this and why many think it wouldn't work or Disney wouldn't do it?

I would happily pay for an express pass either for unlimited or for one ride a day FP type entrance. I've seen a lot of people say the same.
Volume and Rides. Disney has more volume of guests and less headliners than Universal does.
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Old 11-05-2013, 08:49 AM   #254
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Originally Posted by peyjax View Post
Imagine that people on a fan base site being passionate about well... what the site is about. So are you saying that all the doom and gloom is just here with just those uber fans? Sorry but you would be very wrong. On the dining plan and the fast past time changes and the napkins etc.yes, but this NO WAY!!

Disney is changing the way they do business. There are many Disney apologists out there and frankly you sound like one of them. Yes Disney makes changes blah blah blah it all works out in the end and business returns as usual.

Sometimes a company can make a mistake so big that it can alter their course and this very well just may be that change. I am not saying it will but you have to admit this very well could. This is unlike anything else they have done.

You have to admit that it is very interesting to see how all of this is playing out and to see which way Disney will turn next. I find it all to be very exciting to watch. Perhaps because I do think Disney can fall flat on its face but that is just me. Do not get me wrong I am not hoping for it I just know that we live in the most greedy of times run by a bunch of imperfect people so anything is possible.

Hey, I was obsessed with watching JCPenney for the past 2 years. Especially watching the arrogant CEO trying to tell us how we wanted to shop! Seeing that play out was very entertaining and there was no fan site to go to discuss it all. I say let the discussion continute!!
Quote:
And I agree with your analysis of the situation. This is bigger than napkins and refillable mugs. This is the very core of why people plunk down the big bucks to walk through the gates. I can visit Disney and have a great time with generic napkins. I can visit and have a great time without the dining plan. I can roll my eyes as I walk past the huge lines at Starbucks on Main Street then go right on off to have an awesome day. I don't think I can visit Disney and be happy once ride rationing rolls out. All the rest of that stuff is just extra. This is the core of the park experience.

Brilliant posts....and I would be willing to put money on it that there is some real meat/truth to it.
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Old 11-05-2013, 08:50 AM   #255
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Totally OT, but JCP was a fascinating train wreck. The CEO tried to teach his customers what they really wanted, literally insulted them, and totally alienated the company's base.

Honestly, I don't think Disney is going to fall on its face, certainly not in so spectacular a fashion, but I do wonder if some are getting a bit anxious about how to make the pre-booking rules work in a way that's best for Disney.
It's always fascinating when the powers that be try to make decisions for the little people.
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