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Old 11-04-2013, 09:25 AM   #166
mom2mickeyfan
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Originally Posted by pouncingpluto View Post
The thing is, EMH is not fundamentally any different than getting better FP+ access -- it's all in the framing. You pay the same ticket price to get into the park as offsite guests, but you get to enjoy more hours in the park and presumably ride more rides. WDW is paying the cast members and operating the rides from 7 a.m. to 10 p.m. (or whatever), but "taking away" park time from offsite guests so that onsite guests get to feel special and ride more rides.
The thing with EMH is that it doesn't affect every park every day. Off-siters can avoid that perk with very little research.
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Old 11-04-2013, 09:25 AM   #167
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... I do have control over it. No one is forced to use any kind of fast pass + or - the rides are all there without it and a good time can be had without using the fast pass system at all.

When anyone buys tickets to a theme park they're paying for admission. Not a guarantee of fast passes or anything similar, they bought admission. If they toy with me getting into the parks I might have an issue with it, but as long as they offer what they sold (admission) then I don't see it as abhorrent an act as some posters seem to.

What parts of the vacation are you not in control of?
I believe that what is upsetting to most people is that FP+ seems to be vastly different than the old FP system. With that system you were able to space out your attractions and if you planned well, avoid a lot of the stand by lines. Now, I understand that in a theme park, lines are a fact of life, but under that previous system, you could minimize the down time in lines.

Some of the reports we are reading are that the stand by lines and the FP lines are very long, and FP+ seems to be the blame. I have no first hand experience, so I am taking the wait and see approach, but if this system ends up forcing folks who want to minimize standing in long lines for head liner attractions to not only plan far ahead, but also turns traditionally walk on attractions into long waits as well, ....the vacation is indeed being tinkered with.

When you say that no one is forced to use FP, you are correct, but I have toured with and without, and with is way better. I absolutely refuse to step foot into Six Flags NE, it is a zoo. Loooooooooog lines for everything unless you pay for the exorbitantly priced front of the line pass. I won't do this for one day, so I cannot even imagine that I would subject myself or my family to these lines for over a week. And the pass would bankrupt me!
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Old 11-04-2013, 09:26 AM   #168
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Originally Posted by pouncingpluto View Post
I don't think it's a perception of being better than anyone else. I think it's that it doesn't feel unfair to most onsite guests when they get park-related perks others don't get (like EMH -- and possibly a better FP+ experience), because onsite guests (and I am pretty much always in this category, as a DVC member) tend to view a WDW visit as an entire immersive experience, rather than mentally separating hotel stay from park stay. If I'm a 24/7 guest at this resort, it only seems natural that the resort gives me certain perks over people who are visiting just for the day.
Which they do, transportation, extra hours in the park,themed resorts and pools.These are all the marketing points that Disney was using to get guests to stay onsit. Not saying this applies to you but when is enough enough? If they do away with the EMH then I think you have a reason to be a little PO'd.

Do they do much for DVC owners being they took a lot of your money up front?
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Old 11-04-2013, 09:28 AM   #169
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In your airline analogy you get better service on the flight, more comfortable seat ect ect for the extra money you spent. If people who are staying deluxe or onsite in general want extra then they should be asking for reduced park tickets for a perk. They already gets perks for staying onsite. I know someone posted this earlier but the park is a separate entity from your accommodations and what you can do or can't shouldn't be affected by your choice of where you choose to sleep. If it costs me the same to enter the park I should have the same opportunities to partake of park attractions.

I know Universal gives a park perk to their hotel guests but that is for 3 resorts not 24. Plus Universal doesn't have the same attendance that Disney has.
You do have the exact same opportunities to enjoy every single thing that on-site guests do, they're not taking away your ability to ride Soarin', you just might have to stand in line a bit longer.

And, it's key to point out the DisneyCo Suits aren't looking at Universal size or attendance. They are staring wide-eyed in shock at how Universal just did more revenue in the third quarter than they did in all of 2010, with a 38% increase year-to-year while Disney is almost flat and had a decline in occupancy rate.

Those 3 deluxe properties at Universal are a direct threat to Disney's deluxe properties (Disney's highest on-site profit margin is with Deluxe). The Loew's rooms and facilities are incrementally better and Universal Express is included.

We can debate fair or not, Universal has proven the business model and Disney is playing catch-up. None of this should be a surprise.
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Old 11-04-2013, 09:33 AM   #170
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Originally Posted by Nancyg56 View Post
I believe that what is upsetting to most people is that FP+ seems to be vastly different than the old FP system. With that system you were able to space out your attractions and if you planned well, avoid a lot of the stand by lines. Now, I understand that in a theme park, lines are a fact of life, but under that previous system, you could minimize the down time in lines.

Some of the reports we are reading are that the stand by lines and the FP lines are very long, and FP+ seems to be the blame. I have no first hand experience, so I am taking the wait and see approach, but if this system ends up forcing folks who want to minimize standing in long lines for head liner attractions to not only plan far ahead, but also turns traditionally walk on attractions into long waits as well, ....the vacation is indeed being tinkered with.

When you say that no one is forced to use FP, you are correct, but I have toured with and without, and with is way better. I absolutely refuse to step foot into Six Flags NE, it is a zoo. Loooooooooog lines for everything unless you pay for the exorbitantly priced front of the line pass. I won't do this for one day, so I cannot even imagine that I would subject myself or my family to these lines for over a week. And the pass would bankrupt me!

A lot of the problem is no one knows how this is going to work. You can't really base it off of what is going on now because not everyone is online with this yet. But with what some are saying as far as lines go(and still having paper fastpass available)it is definitely concerning. They more than likely will do away with the paper fastpass. Even if they do keep some same day passes available in a kiosk the times will be anything but prime.
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Old 11-04-2013, 09:34 AM   #171
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So you wouldn't mind someone toying with your vacation and you can't do a thing about it? I think that is more of what is bothering people than anything else.

What if you saved for years for this once in a lifetime vacation(which isn't cheap) and now you have very little control over it?
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Its the uncertainty of it all. They keep changing the rules and it is affecting many people who don't have control over it. Look most people go to an amusement park to ride rides. I don't know for sure what is going to happen with the new system but it seems like from the testing phase this is going to be hindered.

Lets say you are not a part of the fastpass+ you show up at the park and the regular fastpass for your favorite ride are gone, or for later than you are going to be in the park and the standby line is 1hr+. Well I guess you have to get in the standby line. Its going to limit how many rides you get to ride.

If you go or have gone several times , or if you just like to pay money to walk around a theme park and take in the sights its not as big a deal as to the family that scrimped and saved to go and this may be the only chance they get to go.

Look they dropped the epcot tier on everyone from out of left field.
I agree that the system is uncertain, and that also means that outcomes are uncertain.

but what I was originally responding to was someone who said that a vacation could be toyed with and no one had any control over it. But you do. In your scenario you can decide whether you want to wait in the standby line or go ride other rides. You have a choice to make and that's why I was pointing out that choices aren't be taken away from anyone, they're just different choices. I leave on saturday and have fp+ and we'll see how it goes, but I know I have choices, and if the whole system blows up and there's no fastpasses for the week I'm there, well then I'll just choose what my priorities are and go from there.

I can understand feeling anxious about uncertainty but I think we can all agree what we've seen on this board (not necessarily in this post) is that people are beyond anxious which I find to be a little over the top.
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Old 11-04-2013, 09:37 AM   #172
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You do have the exact same opportunities to enjoy every single thing that on-site guests do, they're not taking away your ability to ride Soarin', you just might have to stand in line a bit longer.

And, it's key to point out the DisneyCo Suits aren't looking at Universal size or attendance. They are staring wide-eyed in shock at how Universal just did more revenue in the third quarter than they did in all of 2010, with a 38% increase year-to-year while Disney is almost flat and had a decline in occupancy rate.

Those 3 deluxe properties at Universal are a direct threat to Disney's deluxe properties (Disney's highest on-site profit margin is with Deluxe). The Loew's rooms and facilities are incrementally better and Universal Express is included.

We can debate fair or not, Universal has proven the business model and Disney is playing catch-up. None of this should be a surprise.
Guess how Universal did that? That's right they built new attractions not a new computer/tracking/CC machine system. Maybe one day this technology will be great,who knows but right now people see rides going up at Universal and princess meet and greets at Disney.
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Old 11-04-2013, 09:38 AM   #173
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You do have the exact same opportunities to enjoy every single thing that on-site guests do, they're not taking away your ability to ride Soarin', you just might have to stand in line a bit longer.

And, it's key to point out the DisneyCo Suits aren't looking at Universal size or attendance. They are staring wide-eyed in shock at how Universal just did more revenue in the third quarter than they did in all of 2010, with a 38% increase year-to-year while Disney is almost flat and had a decline in occupancy rate.

Those 3 deluxe properties at Universal are a direct threat to Disney's deluxe properties (Disney's highest on-site profit margin is with Deluxe). The Loew's rooms and facilities are incrementally better and Universal Express is included.

We can debate fair or not, Universal has proven the business model and Disney is playing catch-up. None of this should be a surprise.
I just checked for a one night stay (12-5-13) at Disney's GF the rate is listed as $559.13 and for the same night at Universal's Portofina Bay is $279. Is it possible that the cost of the rooms is the reason their occupancy rates are down?? I promise if the rooms rates came down, our family would stay on-site.
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Old 11-04-2013, 09:39 AM   #174
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I agree that the system is uncertain, and that also means that outcomes are uncertain.

but what I was originally responding to was someone who said that a vacation could be toyed with and no one had any control over it. But you do. In your scenario you can decide whether you want to wait in the standby line or go ride other rides. You have a choice to make and that's why I was pointing out that choices aren't be taken away from anyone, they're just different choices. I leave on saturday and have fp+ and we'll see how it goes, but I know I have choices, and if the whole system blows up and there's no fastpasses for the week I'm there, well then I'll just choose what my priorities are and go from there.

I can understand feeling anxious about uncertainty but I think we can all agree what we've seen on this board (not necessarily in this post) is that people are beyond anxious which I find to be a little over the top.
I hope everything goes flawlessly on your vacation. Let us know how it went when you get back
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Old 11-04-2013, 09:39 AM   #175
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Which they do, transportation, extra hours in the park,themed resorts and pools.These are all the marketing points that Disney was using to get guests to stay onsit. Not saying this applies to you but when is enough enough? If they do away with the EMH then I think you have a reason to be a little PO'd.

Do they do much for DVC owners being they took a lot of your money up front?
No!!!! LOL. As a matter of fact DVC owners, IMO, get less than people paying a "cash" resort stay. But, we bought into a timeshare, that's all. I don't expect to get extra perks because I bought a timeshare. I'm ok with that.

However I do think guests staying on site (whether cash or DVC) should get perks. I like the EMH, I hope they don't get rid of them. I'm happy with keeping those. If they do get rid of them, that would suck. I also love immersing myself in the whole WDW experience.

I'm not saying we should get more perks than what are already there. But sometimes it sounds as if people don't think on site guests should any perks at all for staying on site.
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Old 11-04-2013, 09:51 AM   #176
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Originally Posted by mom2mickeyfan View Post
I just checked for a one night stay (12-5-13) at Disney's GF the rate is listed as $559.13 and for the same night at Universal's Portofina Bay is $279. Is it possible that the cost of the rooms is the reason their occupancy rates are down?? I promise if the rooms rates came down, our family would stay on-site.
Why are you comparing a mid-range prop at Universal to the top-of-the line at Disney? Of course it's cheaper.

The difference between Universal and WDW is that Disney has MANY resorts in the $279 range, and will fill all those, in addition to the $600 rooms at GF, and the $120 rooms at All-Star. You can stay on property at WDW for well under $279/nt.
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Old 11-04-2013, 09:59 AM   #177
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Why are you comparing a mid-range prop at Universal to the top-of-the line at Disney? Of course it's cheaper.

The difference between Universal and WDW is that Disney has MANY resorts in the $279 range, and will fill all those, in addition to the $600 rooms at GF, and the $120 rooms at All-Star. You can stay on property at WDW for well under $279/nt.
I haven't stayed at either but have visited GF. I just looked at the highest rate for Disney and Universal. I have seen others talking about how nice Portofina Bay is but again, I've never visited. But either the GF is worth the $559 a night or it isn't and needs more perks to make it worth it. It was also mentioned that Disney is having trouble filling their rooms and that is why they should include pre-booking FP+s as an on-site perk only because the cost of the rooms aren't worth it. I am just going by what others in the thread are saying.
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Old 11-04-2013, 10:01 AM   #178
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I just checked for a one night stay (12-5-13) at Disney's GF the rate is listed as $559.13 and for the same night at Universal's Portofina Bay is $279. Is it possible that the cost of the rooms is the reason their occupancy rates are down?? I promise if the rooms rates came down, our family would stay on-site.
Kind of hard to tell based on just the G Fand one specific night- the BW, AK, and WL are in the $335-$420 range for the same date and I also don't know (but you might) if this is during free dining, which would affect availability and room rates/discounts.

Deluxe hotel room rates give the highest profit margins, attract the bigger spenders, but also have the highest operating costs (larger rooms, better linens, better and more complex pool systems, etc.) that is why more perks to (hopefully) keep that rate high.

Disney, like all resorts, also understands that there are a significant number of Deluxe guests with significant disposable income- dropping the rate too much would be fortunate for the rest of us, but would also drop availability for the big spenders. Check out the GF Lobby sometimes, there are some very high rollers, many foreign, dropping some serious cash.
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Old 11-04-2013, 10:06 AM   #179
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Why are you comparing a mid-range prop at Universal to the top-of-the line at Disney? Of course it's cheaper.

The difference between Universal and WDW is that Disney has MANY resorts in the $279 range, and will fill all those, in addition to the $600 rooms at GF, and the $120 rooms at All-Star. You can stay on property at WDW for well under $279/nt.
The Grand Floridian is no nicer than Portofino. IMO.
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Old 11-04-2013, 10:07 AM   #180
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[QUOTE=AmyB2006;49997499]No!!!! LOL. As a matter of fact DVC owners, IMO, get less than people paying a "cash" resort stay. But, we bought into a timeshare, that's all. I don't expect to get extra perks because I bought a timeshare. I'm ok with that.

However I do think guests staying on site (whether cash or DVC) should get perks. I like the EMH, I hope they don't get rid of them. I'm happy with keeping those. If they do get rid of them, that would suck. I also love immersing myself in the whole WDW experience.

I'm not saying we should get more perks than what are already there. But sometimes it sounds as if people don't think on site guests should any perks at all for staying on site.[/QUOTE

Unless they drop the prices they have to give some kind of perk to get enough guests to fill rooms.
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