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Old 11-09-2013, 09:45 PM   #706
DPCummerbund
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This whole argument changes depending on how you look at it.

If you're on the "offsite guest" side, you think of FP as part of the Disney theme park experience, you're upset that Disney is withholding something from you that you rightfully paid for. You and the onsite guests both paid for theme park admission including fastpasses, and Disney won't give them to you any more, which isn't fair.

If you're on the "an onsite guest" side, you probably think of FP+ as a "perk" you get in addition to the theme park experience. You and the offsiters both pay for tickets, which gets you admission into the park. However, since you're staying onsite, Disney currently gives you the added perk of some FP+.

As some have said, this is very probably a temporary restriction. When FP+ is fully implemented, it's very possible that everyone will get the same FP+. Then again, Disney may continue to give some kind of FP+ bonus to resort guests.

It's all in how you think about fastpasses.


Look at it this way. Imagine Disney offered two different admission tickets:

1) PARK ADMISSION: $120. Admits one adult guest to the theme park, and access to all the attractions. This ticket can be purchased by anyone.

2) PARK ADMISSION WITH FASTPASS+: $120. Admits one adult guest to the theme park, and access to all the attractions, and 3 Fastpasses to attractions of your choice. This is a special ticket that can be purchased by resort guests only!

Would your feelings about Disney's actions change if tickets like these were actually available?
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Old 11-09-2013, 11:31 PM   #707
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Originally Posted by DPCummerbund View Post
Would your feelings about Disney's actions change if tickets like these were actually available?
Would I still feel like they were taking something away from offsite guests? Yes. TBH, IF they were to make tickets like this (which I don't think they are), it would be taking something away from offsite guests. FPs have been available to ALL guests for over a decade. To make FP+ only available to resort guests, and have no option for offsite guests to participate, is the very definition of taking something away.

That said, I would more appreciate the clarity in which they present the program. Right now we know, from what Disney has said, that FP+ will be available to ALL guests eventually. No one knows when. No one knows what the parameters of that access will look like for offsite guests.

I think a LOT of the issues many people are having with how Disney is handling this test is with the lack of information coming from Disney. They know a heck of a lot more than they are telling anyone, and lack of information breeds uncertainty.

Was it annoying to not have access to FP+ in October? Yeah..but I was offsite, I knew I wouldn't have it. I would have been quite unhappy had I been an onsite guest last week, who'd already opted into the test 2 months ago, when the tiering went into effect at Epcot - especially if I hadn't finished my FP+ selections for Epcot yet. I don't blame people for not wanting to be subjected to ever changing test circumstances on their vacations.
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Old 11-10-2013, 12:38 AM   #708
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Would I still feel like they were taking something away from offsite guests? Yes.
That wasn't the question. Disney is surely making the situation better for resort guests and worse for offsite guests. The question is whether it's fair to charge the same price for tickets when one has FP+ (or more FP+) and the other doesn't.


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Originally Posted by Angel Ariel View Post
I think a LOT of the issues many people are having with how Disney is handling this test is with the lack of information coming from Disney. They know a heck of a lot more than they are telling anyone, and lack of information breeds uncertainty.

I'm relatively new to this forum. I've really only been a "regular" on here for a few months, but what I've mostly read is outrage about how Disney has handled several issues:

1) FP+ rollout (the big one)
2) 2 monorail outages during VGF construction
3) Construction issues at the Poly

In all three instances, Disney handled it exactly the same way. They notified NOBODY ahead of time. The day the issue was about to start, in most cases they notified affected people the day it happened. They made accommodations when necessary (extra buses for transportation issues, recategorizing rooms). When things really got messed up for particular guests, they made recompense (free FP, comped dinners, etc.).

Apparently, Disney just doesn't notify guests of "minor" changes to their experiences. As long as the parks are open, the rides are in operation, and you still have a hotel room, Disney considers things to be normal. You may or may not have fastpasses, a pool, monorails, or whatever.

So, I understand that people have "issues" with how Disney is handling this FP issue. But it's clearly how Disney handles MANY issues.

In general, if you expect Disney to give you advance notice of some kind of change to the parks, or notify you of something that might upset you (and make you want to cancel your vacation), get used to disappointment.

I'm not saying that people shouldn't be disappointed by these things, just that they shouldn't expect anything different from Disney at this point.
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Old 11-10-2013, 05:23 AM   #709
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DPCummerbund View Post

Apparently, Disney just doesn't notify guests of "minor" changes to their experiences. As long as the parks are open, the rides are in operation, and you still have a hotel room, Disney considers things to be normal. You may or may not have fastpasses, a pool, monorails, or whatever.

So, I understand that people have "issues" with how Disney is handling this FP issue. But it's clearly how Disney handles MANY issues.

In general, if you expect Disney to give you advance notice of some kind of change to the parks, or notify you of something that might upset you (and make you want to cancel your vacation), get used to disappointment.

I'm not saying that people shouldn't be disappointed by these things, just that they shouldn't expect anything different from Disney at this point.
You are exactly right. Maybe it is not the way we all would like Disney to handle things, but that is how they handle things. And they do tell you right on their web site that pretty much everything is subject to change and availability. Even your resort is not guaranteed.

I've been stung by that more than once, and now I go hoping that most of what I want to do will be available. But I do keep checking thing such as park hours, and now I keep checking to see if FP+ has changed drastically from one day to the next.

But nothing is guaranteed by Disney.
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Old 11-10-2013, 07:22 AM   #710
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Originally Posted by DPCummerbund View Post
In all three instances, Disney handled it exactly the same way. They notified NOBODY ahead of time. The day the issue was about to start, in most cases they notified affected people the day it happened. They made accommodations when necessary (extra buses for transportation issues, recategorizing rooms). When things really got messed up for particular guests, they made recompense (free FP, comped dinners, etc.).
Hmmm Disney must subscribe to the old ... "It's better to ask for forgiveness than for permission" adage.
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Old 11-10-2013, 08:21 AM   #711
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DPCummerbund View Post
This whole argument changes depending on how you look at it.

If you're on the "offsite guest" side, you think of FP as part of the Disney theme park experience, you're upset that Disney is withholding something from you that you rightfully paid for. You and the onsite guests both paid for theme park admission including fastpasses, and Disney won't give them to you any more, which isn't fair.

If you're on the "an onsite guest" side, you probably think of FP+ as a "perk" you get in addition to the theme park experience. You and the offsiters both pay for tickets, which gets you admission into the park. However, since you're staying onsite, Disney currently gives you the added perk of some FP+.

As some have said, this is very probably a temporary restriction. When FP+ is fully implemented, it's very possible that everyone will get the same FP+. Then again, Disney may continue to give some kind of FP+ bonus to resort guests.

It's all in how you think about fastpasses.


Look at it this way. Imagine Disney offered two different admission tickets:

1) PARK ADMISSION: $120. Admits one adult guest to the theme park, and access to all the attractions. This ticket can be purchased by anyone.

2) PARK ADMISSION WITH FASTPASS+: $120. Admits one adult guest to the theme park, and access to all the attractions, and 3 Fastpasses to attractions of your choice. This is a special ticket that can be purchased by resort guests only!

Would your feelings about Disney's actions change if tickets like these were actually available?

When has Disney ever made a special ticket available and not charged more?
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Old 11-10-2013, 08:48 AM   #712
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Hmmm Disney must subscribe to the old ... "It's better to ask for forgiveness than for permission" adage.
My laugh for the day! So true!
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Old 11-10-2013, 09:00 AM   #713
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Between FP+, not being able to get FP- for at decent times unless there before RD, the changes to GAC/DAS, and the new upcoming ADR CC policy, I really think no more visits to WDW. No longer a vacation. Anybody else feel the same?
'No longer a vacation' js exactly how I was feeling when I got the email to set up my fastpasses and customize my magic bands.

I did do it, last minute and I was happy with the results.

The fastpasses were especially useful as an onsite guest. I had no rush to get anywhere and I could change the times when I decided to do something else or was later getting going. It worked out for the best. Almost too easy.

But - this was during testing phase.

I fear that when it's rolled out to everyone, it wont be quite so convenient. I fear that if you miss the start of your window to book, you will be in a long standby line.

That is when I will be having similar thoughts as you.

I did enjoy the Magic Band for park entry and as a room key. It was convenient and easy to manage, even to driving into the resort - touch the magic band and off we went.
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Old 11-10-2013, 09:02 AM   #714
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When has Disney ever made a special ticket available and not charged more?
They haven't and I think that was his point.
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Old 11-10-2013, 09:05 AM   #715
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They haven't and I think that was his point.
No, he had that they would both cost $120.
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Old 11-10-2013, 09:06 AM   #716
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When has Disney ever made a special ticket available and not charged more?
Disney has a lot of special tickets available: convention tickets, youth tickets, military tickets, resident tickets . . . .all with varying prices and entitlements, but almost always priced below general public ticket prices and almost always with some kind of "perk" that the general public tickets don't have. For example, the convention 2-day base ticket costs less than a GP 2-day base, and it includes one fun option without any additional cost. So the precedent is out there. What about the packages Disney has offered with special "extended" tickets? Buy the package and get a 7 day ticket for the price of a five day . . . not available at the gate, not available at all unless you booked the package.

But doing it that way would almost be copying Universal's mode - FOTL for resort guests (in Disney's case, pre-booking attractions via FP+) and no FOTL for off property. The only difference is that Universal adds another layer by making a limited FOTL pass available for an additional fee during certain times of the year (not necessarily available during holidays and peak times when most people would be most willing to buy it). Disney could throw that in the mix as well, so it would come out something like:

$120 gp ticket - no FP
$120 resort guest ticket - includes FP+ selections at 60 days out
$50 add on to gp ticket - includes FP+ selections at maybe 30 days out (some limited time period that still gives resort guests an edge).
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Old 11-10-2013, 09:08 AM   #717
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Aside from the convenience of FP+ scheduling ahead of time, it doesn't seem like a great replacement for FP.

The bigger problem, for me, is that guest service is still declining. Disney doesn't even operate by the same customer service standards they try to teach to others over at Disney Institute. There are still some great CMs out there, but they are the exception. Some were downright unpleasant to deal with or even be around. Lots of "bad show" going around, like CMs talking amongst themselves about guests/other CMs/backstage business, eating in guest areas while in full uniform/costume, etc. Rather astonishing really. These are likely all management failures.
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Old 11-10-2013, 09:10 AM   #718
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DPCummerbund View Post
I'm relatively new to this forum. I've really only been a "regular" on here for a few months, but what I've mostly read is outrage about how Disney has handled several issues:

1) FP+ rollout (the big one)
2) 2 monorail outages during VGF construction
3) Construction issues at the Poly

In all three instances, Disney handled it exactly the same way. They notified NOBODY ahead of time. The day the issue was about to start, in most cases they notified affected people the day it happened. They made accommodations when necessary (extra buses for transportation issues, recategorizing rooms). When things really got messed up for particular guests, they made recompense (free FP, comped dinners, etc.).

Apparently, Disney just doesn't notify guests of "minor" changes to their experiences. As long as the parks are open, the rides are in operation, and you still have a hotel room, Disney considers things to be normal. You may or may not have fastpasses, a pool, monorails, or whatever.

So, I understand that people have "issues" with how Disney is handling this FP issue. But it's clearly how Disney handles MANY issues.

In general, if you expect Disney to give you advance notice of some kind of change to the parks, or notify you of something that might upset you (and make you want to cancel your vacation), get used to disappointment.
And part of the reason some of us who have been around a while are upset/disappointed about this is because it is a new state of affairs for Disney. When I was staying at Pop Century in March of 2011, the main pool and toddler pool were closed for construction. We received a very cute letter from Disney about the closure about 6 weeks before our trip, so we had plenty of notice. And although that was the "main" pool, at a value resort the main pool has almost nothing to set it apart from the two "quiet" pools which were both operating as normal for our dates. That's the level of service we've come to expect from Disney. Now, just a couple years later, Disney isn't notifying guests in advance about service interruptions at much more significant amenities and getting any recompense at all about a problem one encounters is a matter of being the "squeaky wheel".
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Old 11-10-2013, 09:13 AM   #719
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Originally Posted by fla4fun View Post
Disney has a lot of special tickets available: convention tickets, youth tickets, military tickets, resident tickets . . . .all with varying prices and entitlements, but almost always priced below general public ticket prices and almost always with some kind of "perk" that the general public tickets don't have. For example, the convention 2-day base ticket costs less than a GP 2-day base, and it includes one fun option without any additional cost. So the precedent is out there. What about the packages Disney has offered with special "extended" tickets? Buy the package and get a 7 day ticket for the price of a five day . . . not available at the gate, not available at all unless you booked the package.

But doing it that way would almost be copying Universal's mode - FOTL for resort guests (in Disney's case, pre-booking attractions via FP+) and no FOTL for off property. The only difference is that Universal adds another layer by making a limited FOTL pass available for an additional fee during certain times of the year (not necessarily available during holidays and peak times when most people would be most willing to buy it). Disney could throw that in the mix as well, so it would come out something like:

$120 gp ticket - no FP
$120 resort guest ticket - includes FP+ selections at 60 days out
$50 add on to gp ticket - includes FP+ selections at maybe 30 days out (some limited time period that still gives resort guests an edge).
Right. And then you price the add-on just enough that it makes more sense to just rent a value room. Just like how Universal does a good business in such rooms to get the passes. More profit, increase occupancy rates.
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Old 11-10-2013, 09:15 AM   #720
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No, he had that they would both cost $120.
LOL, I know. That was his point. He was asking whether or not people would think that was fair. Charging the same amount of money for a ticket with clearly more benefits.
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