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Old 10-29-2013, 05:36 PM   #46
smcabee
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Dont Care about FP+, we go to WDW for the Atmosphere. If a ride has a long wait, we will hit it next time. Frankly, we prefer the shows, live entertainment, and details in the parks more than the rides so FP+ not an issue. As far as the ADR CC requirement, Im very much for it. Reservations are much easier to come by now and will only get better imo in the future when it rolls out to every TS restaurant. Sorry your not feeling the magic anymore but the changes have us leaning toward purchasing more DVC points so we can go more often in the future.
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Old 10-29-2013, 05:39 PM   #47
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Eh, this isn't really a spoiled brat picking up the toys and going home - its just that these changes are honestly frustrating people. Telling them not to let the door hit them on the way out isn't very nice at all.

I think I will do a classic "this board is getting pretty mean" comment.

Why so mean?

I feel sad that they're alienating people who aren't looking forward to the changes. Not everyone can afford to be onsite, or want to schedule everything down to a T for their vacation. It doesn't make their priorities "wrong" to say that. They just don't tour the same way you do.

On the other hand its not the changes that are making me consider not going back for a few years, its the poor execution. I arrive in 82 days and my tickets still are not linked properly to my account and I can't seem to get the new system to add them (we have APs) so will likely miss out on FP+ altogether. I've had the premier annual pass for three years now and there has not been ONE time in either park where I have been able to do anything online properly (and in some cases walk through a turnstile - whenever I go from one to the other it needs to be reissued for their system. California & Florida do not link up properly even after so many years!) without having to call them to fix my account. Mind you the IT people work on a shorter day, so catching someone who can help can be frustrating as I also work a normal 8-5 workweek. I missed out on passholder experiences because the site won't accept my # as valid even when I CAN get into that resort (such as the soft opening of Fantasyland).

We have to book things 6 months in advance for dining but now there are rumors that Kona might be closed (RUMORS mind you - they have not said anything about it), Remy gets pulled from Chef's de France, etc on their whim very close to the time they take effect. Since everything is on east coast time getting said dining reservations means waking up at 3am and I am tired of that too anyway. Specials like Free Dining sells out if you don't get up early as well, oh except the times they release at midnight but they don't tell you that ahead of time either. If you wait on hold for an hour or more they MIGHT be able to find you something that works with your dates. My mother spent three hours and was in tears trying to get a B.O.G. reservation when it opened and were it not for people finding a back door phone # to get in she wouldn't have gotten to go even after all that effort. Their phone system is atrocious.

We do not get PINs ever (don't even get me started on that alienating program), do not live in a state that has a theme park for resident rates, and will never understand why AP holders can't get free dining sometimes along with it being offered to the GP. Oh, and they cancelled my birthday cruise in January a few months before our sail date (that's on DCL I know) AFTER many had booked airfare and only paid their change fees, though not for any increase in price. This is also an industry where you need to be quick - book on opening day for the best price means knowing where you will be two years from now and willing to put 20% or more down on it.

I too am getting beaten down by Disney's way of doing things and I don't even have anything against FP+ or wristbands or whatever else. Dining and discounts and everything else is just completely adding up for us and the difference between the way you do things going to DLR vs WDW is like night and day - truly DLR is more relaxing! If I stop going I'll just stop going, I assure you, no stomping of feet or posting a thread about it, just quietly into the night. But I do have empathy for others who are sad about it too.
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Old 10-29-2013, 05:49 PM   #48
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What I don't understand is why people are saying they are not going back without even experiencing it. I have read more complaints about this by people who have not gone yet then those who have. I not saying don't let the door hit you ( don't get me wrong I would love it if more people stopped going because the parks would be less crowded for me) but how about you don't complain about something that is only in test... Which you opt out of if I am not mistaken and that you have not even tried. I believe that is called sour grapes!
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Old 10-29-2013, 06:16 PM   #49
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What I don't understand is why people are saying they are not going back without even experiencing it. I have read more complaints about this by people who have not gone yet then those who have. I not saying don't let the door hit you ( don't get me wrong I would love it if more people stopped going because the parks would be less crowded for me) but how about you don't complain about something that is only in test... Which you opt out of if I am not mistaken and that you have not even tried. I believe that is called sour grapes!
We have not had a vacation in over a year and that year has been very stressful in general. We need a relaxing, fun vacation and this FP+ fiasco is shaping up to be anything but that. I am not willing to spend thousands of dollars on the chance that there will not be glitches and that FP- will abound, especially in the face of evidence that there will likely be glitches and a shortage of FP-. I do not want to spend a fortune so that WDW can use my vacation as a test for a system designed almost solely to make them more money, while it simultaneously lessens my chance at riding headliners.

I do not relate to those who go to WDW primarily to soak up the atmosphere and who are grateful to simply be allowed in, as if it's The Promised Land. But I respect their right to feel that way. Why can't they respect the fact that my family likes to ride headliners multiple times instead of accusing us of having our priorities out of order?

FP+ is destined to lessen my family's WDW enjoyment. I tend to refuse to spend more money to get less. So Disneyland and Universal are looking better all the time.
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Old 10-29-2013, 06:36 PM   #50
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Personally, I think the argument that "we" forced Disney to do cc for all ADRs is really silly. Drink the koolaid, much?

For every no show at Chef Mickeys is a line of people 2-3 times as long looking for a walk-up reservation. There was no issue with not filling seats. Disney just realized they can make $40 or $50 for every no show PLUS not miss a beat on dining revenue as they fill your spot with a walk-up table.
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Old 10-29-2013, 06:39 PM   #51
AquaDame
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Originally Posted by kmarie99 View Post
What I don't understand is why people are saying they are not going back without even experiencing it. I have read more complaints about this by people who have not gone yet then those who have. I not saying don't let the door hit you ( don't get me wrong I would love it if more people stopped going because the parks would be less crowded for me) but how about you don't complain about something that is only in test... Which you opt out of if I am not mistaken and that you have not even tried. I believe that is called sour grapes!
I understand what you are getting at, but the sad truth is that we ARE experiencing it right now. Before we go. By design. There is still a lack of information IRT FP+, FP-, onsite vs off, the fact that I can't add my APs and thus can't setup my reservations ahead of time as I am supposed to do. MDE has been awful for us thus far. It can't even add my AP - excuse me READD once again since it has been linked to my account twice to date already - one of its most basic uses. I can log in to the AP site, I can see the discounts, it KNOWS I have one, but it refuses to add it to my reservation, saying it is in use under another account. I don't need to be in the park to already be feeling the stress that this rollout is causing. Calling it optional just doesn't make sense - NOT participating means you aren't getting the same chance at headliners. Someone keeps whispering that FP- will be turned off, who knows when. Its either assimilate or risk having 0 FP options when the time comes, or at the very least, a much reduced inventory of FP availability. That is not much of a choice, if you ask me.
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Old 10-29-2013, 06:47 PM   #52
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I'm glad they are doing CC for ADRs. Gives people more chances to get an ADR that will fit in with FP+. I love the idea of FP+ as well. Great not to have to rush at rope drop to get a FP for Soarin' or TSM.

DAS is just another version of a tool for CMs. People got all fussy and possessive about the GAC, like it was a line item in the ADA. The GAC is not an accommodation, it was a tool used by Disney to assist CMs to make appropriate accommodations at the attraction queues. For all the times people said it worked too much like a FOTL pass (or never-ending FP) the GAC users stated that it didn't work that way at all. Now many are squawking that they can't do the parks without the access given by the old GAC. If it didn't give superior access, why can't the DAS work? It gives people the option to not wait in a crowded, long queue.
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Old 10-29-2013, 06:47 PM   #53
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Personally, I think the argument that "we" forced Disney to do cc for all ADRs is really silly. Drink the koolaid, much?

For every no show at Chef Mickeys is a line of people 2-3 times as long looking for a walk-up reservation. There was no issue with not filling seats. Disney just realized they can make $40 or $50 for every no show PLUS not miss a beat on dining revenue as they fill your spot with a walk-up table.
It is not drinking the koolaid. It is so easy now to get ADRs that were almost impossible to get before. People were booking 3, 4, 5 ADRs all over the place because they didn't know what they would feel like eating that far in advance. They were covering their bases, which left Disney with empty tables. Disney may be able to fill the spots of no shows (if a family of just the right size shows up at just the right time), but only after they hold the table for a bit, just in case those people do decide to show up.

Yep. Those people, the ones who booked multiple ADRs "just in case" are the ones who caused Disney to go to a credit card hold. And I'm glad that they did!

Last edited by maxiesmom; 10-29-2013 at 06:56 PM.
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Old 10-29-2013, 06:48 PM   #54
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See ya. One less person in the crowd I'll have to deal with.

If THESE are the reasons that you won't visit Disney World, then I think your have your vacationing priorities wrong to being with.

Pointless thread.

Ethan
Goes well with your pointless response
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Old 10-29-2013, 06:52 PM   #55
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More turkey legs for me.
You mean 'emu.'
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Old 10-29-2013, 06:54 PM   #56
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Both views are fine. Disney is, and will continue to make as much money as is possible. This will always be the driving force from here on out. Without doing much study, it does seem that Walt had a bit of a different vision; but those days are gone. This company is the Master at using a capitalistic society to its fullest advantage. EVERY decision is based on how much money will this eventually make them. They are great at finding that balance point where there are still a LOT of people who will pay. If and when this changes, they will adapt or die. It's not personal; any more than offering a silk shirt for 500.00 or a tank top made of cotton for 4.50. I realize it's not that simplistic but you get my drift. I know that it's emotional experiences that we're paying for, so it FEELS personal, but they are still just selling a Product ( fun, rides, memories, experiences, quality customer service, food, relaxation, excitement, novelty, family time, shopping, convenience)....whatever YOU are willing to pay top dollar for.
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Old 10-29-2013, 06:54 PM   #57
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Everyone has their individual level of tolerance and if this is it for you then you are making the right choice. You should not spend you money and not enjoy yourself. However, when you consider that because of the size and the offerings that WDW has you might be able to realize why some of the changes were necessary. Planning has been an important part of a Disney Vacation for a long time, "IF", doing and seeing everything is a priority. If you do a more laid back touring system, that becomes unnecessary. GAC vs, DAS... really hasn't been around long enough to really display any solid based knowledge on how it will affect anyone. It might be a plus for all we know. Charging CC's for ADR's, well again the result of the size and the lack of fairness that many people felt entitled to use. That came about because people were making multiple ADR's for the same exact time thus depriving others of the ability to make ADR's themselves. Then they would, for the most part, just go to one and never cancel the others. Even if they did cancel, there wasn't enough time to fill the positions. What it boils down to is a place like WDW has to set themselves up for the benefit of the most people, not just a few. If people had been a little more ethical instead of greedy, the CC's charges would never have had to be instituted. However, all that said, the only way to experience Disney now is under the new rules. You have always had the option of not finding it worthwhile and there are many, many things to do in the world other then Disney. To the person that felt it was overcrowded. Well, what are they going to do. Everybody and their brother is now saying that they aren't going to go anymore. You'd think that the place would be empty, but it appears to be more crowded then ever. I guess our protests are all going to be detrimental to only us. We will no longer be able to go because we want everyone else to stay at home. I guess the changes haven't discouraged many people from going. Reminds me of the old line from Yogi Berra..."nobody goes there anymore, it's too crowded."
Very good post. Many of these changes came into place because of selfish or unethical behavior by certain people. Don't like the new DAS, blame the entitled who hired disabled people to cut lines. Hate the new ADR system? Blame those who made multiple ADRs for the same day and time, not caring if they were depriving someone else. They should charge more for a no show..or charge for each person that would have been in your party. no sympathy here on that score
That said, I think it's OK for someone to not go. I'd rather have that than someone going anyway and then coming here and complaining.
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Old 10-29-2013, 07:01 PM   #58
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It is not drinking the koolaid. It is so easy now to get ADRs that were almost impossible to get before. People were booking 3, 4, 5 ADRs all over the place because they didn't know what they would feel like eating that far in advance. They were covering their bases, which left Disney with empty tables. Disney may be able to fill the spots of no shows (if a family of just the right size shows up at just the right time, but only after they hold the table for a bit, just in case those people do decide to show up.

Yep. Those people, the ones who booked multiple ADRs "just in case" are the ones who caused Disney to go to a credit card hold. And I'm glad that they did!
This. And yes, Disney certainly is making more revenue off of it, but the system is in place to deter others from making a handful of ADR's and then not calling to cancel. A lot of popular restaurants in LA are doing this now, and they all started doing this because too often they'd have reservations that were never honored and many people walked away from waiting in line to get a table because the wait was too long. They're losing money in that case.
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Old 10-29-2013, 07:09 PM   #59
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It is not drinking the koolaid. It is so easy now to get ADRs that were almost impossible to get before. People were booking 3, 4, 5 ADRs all over the place because they didn't know what they would feel like eating that far in advance. They were covering their bases, which left Disney with empty tables. Disney may be able to fill the spots of no shows (if a family of just the right size shows up at just the right time), but only after they hold the table for a bit, just in case those people do decide to show up.
Actually, that's not quote correct. Here is the definition on Disney's ADR:
Advance Reservations is a system Walt Disney World uses to manage their restaurant seating flow. In essence, unlike a true reservation where a table is saved for your party at a particular time, the advance reservation guarantees your party the next available table.

Ergo, you don't show up, your table goes to the next group inline. Kind of like a FP at a ride, they don't save a seat for you in case you show up. If you do, you're next in line, if not, then the person behind you fills the seat. It's an excellent system really - they do not HOLD a table for you so they have no empty tables if you don't show up. Requiring a credit card to hold the table does likely make for less "double dipping ADRs" but Disney wasn't loosing any money if you didn't show up. Now, they make money !!
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Old 10-29-2013, 07:12 PM   #60
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Actually, that's not quote correct. Here is the definition on Disney's ADR:
Advance Reservations is a system Walt Disney World uses to manage their restaurant seating flow. In essence, unlike a true reservation where a table is saved for your party at a particular time, the advance reservation guarantees your party the next available table.

Ergo, you don't show up, your table goes to the next group inline. Kind of like a FP at a ride, they don't save a seat for you in case you show up. If you do, you're next in line, if not, then the person behind you fills the seat. It's an excellent system really - they do not HOLD a table for you so they have no empty tables if you don't show up. Requiring a credit card to hold the table does likely make for less "double dipping ADRs" but Disney wasn't loosing any money if you didn't show up. Now, they make money !!
In reality, Disney actually does hold your table for you for a bit, just in case you are running late. Usually between 15-30 minutes. They don't just say too bad so sad and give it away right away.
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