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Old 11-02-2013, 10:33 PM   #91
robpa
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I agree, when parks are not at full capacity how crowded they are is perception. My crowded may not be your crowded. This would be based on our past experiences so everyone is going to perceive crowds differently.
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Old 11-03-2013, 02:41 AM   #92
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Disney is a company with investors that crave a return on investment. Disney doesn't have to do anything that I think is particularly evil to make Magic Bands pay off the large investment they've put into them. I actually utilized the ability to pay via MB and I can't remember EVER charging things to my room Disney or otherwise. That alone has increased sales.. do you think it's evil to make it easier to buy what you want?

I really feel as if there is no advertisement needed for the Magic Bands if they do it right everyone will want one. There was a general interest by guests who weren't part of the testing in what it was and how it worked.

I only had one minor issue and it was fixed quickly. The mobile app definitely needs some tweaking and was quirky but I think part of that was because they were trying to influence my fast pass choices to balance the crowds out a bit. If you've ever played SoTMK the portals do the same thing and most of the time there are no issues.

Why don't you test it and give constructive feedback if you aren't happy?

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Old 11-03-2013, 06:54 AM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvoldicA View Post
Disney is a company with investors that crave a return on investment. Disney doesn't have to do anything that I think is particularly evil to make Magic Bands pay off the large investment they've put into them. I actually utilized the ability to pay via MB and I can't remember EVER charging things to my room Disney or otherwise. That alone has increased sales.. do you think it's evil to make it easier to buy what you want?

I really feel as if there is no advertisement needed for the Magic Bands if they do it right everyone will want one. There was a general interest by guests who weren't part of the testing in what it was and how it worked.

I only had one minor issue and it was fixed quickly. The mobile app definitely needs some tweaking and was quirky but I think part of that was because they were trying to influence my fast pass choices to balance the crowds out a bit. If you've ever played SoTMK the portals do the same thing and most of the time there are no issues.

Why don't you test it and give constructive feedback if you aren't happy?

~B
I don't believe Disney is planning anything evil with MB, unless trying to make it easier to part with your hard earned money is evil. I don' think that is because every company is trying to do that.
I guess I just don't see the greatness of it in its present form. I never charged anything to my room ever, don't buy a lot of souvenirs(overpriced merchandise made in China), and only eat CS, and they screwed up the fastpass situation for a lot of folks(not everyone mind you).
I do think its evil to force everyone to use a system they don't want to or see no benefit in using. I know this may change so I will monitor it. I also know someone will say then don't go and I won't until Disney stops putting the money grab ahead of customer satisfaction.
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Old 11-03-2013, 11:51 AM   #94
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Where they might be going:

http://www.themeparkinsider.com/flume/201310/3730/
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Old 11-03-2013, 03:10 PM   #95
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I am probably risking my life by posting in this group, as it is not known to be very welcoming of newbies, but I had to point out that there is a clear reason that I see for why Disney is not doing more to market the Magic Bands at this time. I think that in the overall perspective of what they envision for this tech, it would be tantamount to promoting road upgrades or a new state of the art water treatment facility. In other words, I think this is a purely infrastructural upgrade, and that the goal is to get visitors used to the new paradigm of wearable tickets. What info they have put out there is for the benefit of those of us who obsess over the latest changes at WDW, but for much of the world, they won't even be aware of this until they decide to take the kids for their first trip, by which time it will be in place and the kinks (mostly) worked out.

Maybe I am just another Disney apologist, but I suspect that they have some amazing things to implement once this tech is installed and everyone is used to it. Those who say that Disney is not offering enough incentive for frequent visitors to appreciate the new system are overlooking the fact that there is a huge complaint backlash by the "devoted fans" against almost everything they ever say and do about the parks. Just like the people who have a screaming fit over every change to facebook, or each new iOS upgrade, there is no way to do anything that will satisfy that segment of the fanbase, so I suspect that Disney doesn't even try.

As for me, I am looking forward to my next trip as always, and I suspect that not having to fumble in my purse for my ticket or credit card will be convenient, if not exactly life-changing, and like a previous poster, I am delighted not to have to make mad dashes across the park for a few key fastpasses - TSMM and Soarin' being the two main offenders. I also like that I can make sure that my FP return windows don't conflict with my dining reservations. And I am betting that in 5 years, when the tech is just "the way it is" and nobody is talking about it, we will be blown away by how RFID is being used to "plus" our attraction experiences.

I also remember that it took a few years before the legacy FP system was appreciated and fully utilized. I recall quite a bit of fan freakout back then as well...
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Old 11-03-2013, 04:32 PM   #96
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That's an excellent post...especially your take on "infrastructure" upgrades...

My differ is on the on the idea that they have things to offer and this is being done to "make things better"

Disney is not in that business anymore. Every move they make (or don't make) is about profit squeezing...things that break even or marginal yield...are mothballed or demolished (pleasure island) - even if its probably better for the customer if they stay...
And those things that are for more profit/less cost...the new downtown...are hammered through.

Yes...I know that all businesses do that...I get it.
But Disney has moved out of its own skin on this.
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Old 11-03-2013, 08:24 PM   #97
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That's an excellent post...especially your take on "infrastructure" upgrades...

My differ is on the on the idea that they have things to offer and this is being done to "make things better"

Disney is not in that business anymore. Every move they make (or don't make) is about profit squeezing...things that break even or marginal yield...are mothballed or demolished (pleasure island) - even if its probably better for the customer if they stay...
And those things that are for more profit/less cost...the new downtown...are hammered through.

Yes...I know that all businesses do that...I get it.
But Disney has moved out of its own skin on this.
This is post is right on. None of what they are doing is to better your experience it is to maximize profit. Like most other businesses they are trying to get as much as they can today and worry about tomorrow.......well tomorrow. I figure even the most jaded person will visit a couple times if they have young kids. The more they can squeeze out of these visitors on top of the first timers and coupled with the Disney is awesome they love me people,well thats a lot of coin. When that gets exhausted we will reinvent(hopefully at little cost) and start the cycle all over again.
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Old 11-03-2013, 10:04 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by lockedoutlogic View Post
My differ is on the on the idea that they have things to offer and this is being done to "make things better"

Disney is not in that business anymore. Every move they make (or don't make) is about profit squeezing...things that break even or marginal yield...are mothballed or demolished (pleasure island) - even if its probably better for the customer if they stay...
And those things that are for more profit/less cost...the new downtown...are hammered through.

Yes...I know that all businesses do that...I get it.
But Disney has moved out of its own skin on this.
That may very well be the case, but the reality is we all still have our own free will and can decide whether to play their game or not.

Take something like the Sorcerer's of the Magic Kingdom interactive game. Why was that created? Was it to sell add-on card sets for a profit? Was it to keep people in the parks longer so they'll buy more churros?

I really don't know, nor do I care. I've never bought any add-on card sets, and if I hadn't eaten that churro in the theme park it would have instead been a muffin back at my hotel.

Disney's profits and my enjoyment are not mutually exclusive. They can actually build attractions and experiences which somehow drive the bottom line AND are enjoyable to guests.

As you yourself said, this is no different than what any other company does. Sadly we're far removed from the days when Michael Eisner would literally throw hundreds-of-millions into the theme parks just to soothe a bruised ego.

I understand exactly what Disney is doing. I'm not a naive sycophant. But at the same time, if I can benefit from the changes they make in the parks, so much the better.

I don't really care WHY Disney built Sorcerer's of the Magic Kingdom. We would have spent the same $$ for our park tickets with or without it. And the time I spent playing a couple rounds of that interactive game with my daughter are far more memorable than the 50th trip on It's A Small World, which is what we might have done otherwise.

We can keep beating this dead horse if necessary. Yes, I wholeheartedly agree that Disney's primary objective is to separate me from as much of my money as possible. And I'll let them do that...right up to the point that I no longer feel it's a worthwhile expenditure on my part. (My own personal habits have already changed slightly in recent years as I find myself spending more time at Disneyland rather than WDW. DL seems to be putting out a better product these days.)

Even with the corner-cutting and other changes to the various Disney parks, there still isn't another amusement venue where I'd rather spend my money. If I felt that Six Flags, Sea World, or Universal had the better product, I'd patronize their establishments instead. But I don't see the point in taking a philosophical stand against Disney simply because "every move they make is about profit squeezing."
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Old 11-03-2013, 10:19 PM   #99
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Well there's the stock excuse again...

And it pains me to see someone so experienced, thoughtful, and well informed use it.

Capitalism is not diplomatic immunity... It does not supersede all arguments.

There are two distinct "branches" of it: fair business and price gouging

Disney operated for several decades in its parks on one premise... And now I believe it has taken the low Road to the other. It was never cheap...but they made efforts to always give you the same or more for your money. I contend it has been 10 (I'm being generous...it's been more) years where they have not made a good faith effort at either.

And I'm not crying for nostalgia...I'm alerting to the possibility that the whole thing will be changed until it isn't what it is any longer.

And none of us want that at all... Not we who pay.

The problem is that everyone has to shake the damn cobwebs out of their heads and make conscious choices to spend their money... Not buy crap because of the label.

That's what wdw is becoming...vacations by walmart.

I know...I'm tough...but am I wrong?
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Old 11-03-2013, 10:25 PM   #100
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If I were single or only traveling ith adults, I would probably like FP+ a lot. Traveling with little ones and one of them disabled makes park touring more difficult. I can make my FP+ reservations 60 days in advance but I'd bet that at most a couple will stick. I know it's said that reservations times can be changed once we're in the parks but who knows if there will be times available that work.

Where is Disney going with Magic Bands?
IMO, Disney is going towards a pay to play plan and this is their way of getting used to the idea a change at a time. It may be based on offsite vs onsite, level of onsite accommodations, or as an add on to tickets.
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Old 11-03-2013, 10:45 PM   #101
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I know...I'm tough...but am I wrong?
You make very convincing arguments...arguments which undoubtedly resonate with a certain segment of Disney's fan base.

But at the end of the day, you're standing in the line right next to me waiting to check-in at Saratoga Springs. And later waiting to board IASW with your kids.

You demand a response--a level of discontent--from others which you yourself do not even demonstrate.
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Old 11-03-2013, 11:02 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by lockedoutlogic View Post
Well there's the stock excuse again...

And it pains me to see someone so experienced, thoughtful, and well informed use it.

Capitalism is not diplomatic immunity... It does not supersede all arguments.

There are two distinct "branches" of it: fair business and price gouging

Disney operated for several decades in its parks on one premise... And now I believe it has taken the low Road to the other. It was never cheap...but they made efforts to always give you the same or more for your money. I contend it has been 10 (I'm being generous...it's been more) years where they have not made a good faith effort at either.

And I'm not crying for nostalgia...I'm alerting to the possibility that the whole thing will be changed until it isn't what it is any longer.

And none of us want that at all... Not we who pay.

The problem is that everyone has to shake the damn cobwebs out of their heads and make conscious choices to spend their money... Not buy crap because of the label.

That's what wdw is becoming...vacations by walmart.

I know...I'm tough...but am I wrong?
This wasn't directed at me, but I am going to respond. You are starting your argument from a flawed premise, the idea that you can set an objective standard for "value" and apply it on behalf of all people, and that will therefore lend weight to your determination that Disney is no longer providing "value" in the same proportion to cost as they were at some nebulous time in the past that is designated as better than now.

If I accept the premise of your argument, then I have nowhere to go, because we aren't talking about specifics, we are just two old geezers sitting on the porch complaining about how nothing is the way it was in the "good old days".

But, value is not and can never be an objective absolute when applied to something as personal as a vacation. If we sit down and hammer out a LONG list of criteria to establish a baseline for value, assuming that we could ever agree, then we could still only establish value as it related to us, not everyone. Value in this area is related directly to hundreds of factors, from the biggies such as how much money you earn, to the smallest of considerations, like what is your minimum acceptable bedsheet thread count. Value isn't broad and general, it is personal and intimate. A great deal of what determines value for me at Disney is completely intangible.

You clearly think that the value of Disney has deteriorated over the years, and you are certainly entitled to that opinion, but don't act like those who disagree are just idiots who haven't been elevated to your level of understanding and wisdom. We may have factors driving our decisions that you can't even relate to. The parents of a non-verbal autistic child who speaks his first word when he meets Mickey Mouse have a conception of the value of a WDW vacation that you should hope to never experience. Likewise the paraplegic who gets to fly on Soarin', or the family that has saved for a decade to experience their first Disney vacation.

And I never hear of a Make-A-Wish kid who asked to go to Wal-Mart...
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Old 11-03-2013, 11:49 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by DizFanSLD View Post

This wasn't directed at me, but I am going to respond. You are starting your argument from a flawed premise, the idea that you can set an objective standard for "value" and apply it on behalf of all people, and that will therefore lend weight to your determination that Disney is no longer providing "value" in the same proportion to cost as they were at some nebulous time in the past that is designated as better than now.

If I accept the premise of your argument, then I have nowhere to go, because we aren't talking about specifics, we are just two old geezers sitting on the porch complaining about how nothing is the way it was in the "good old days".

But, value is not and can never be an objective absolute when applied to something as personal as a vacation. If we sit down and hammer out a LONG list of criteria to establish a baseline for value, assuming that we could ever agree, then we could still only establish value as it related to us, not everyone. Value in this area is related directly to hundreds of factors, from the biggies such as how much money you earn, to the smallest of considerations, like what is your minimum acceptable bedsheet thread count. Value isn't broad and general, it is personal and intimate. A great deal of what determines value for me at Disney is completely intangible.

You clearly think that the value of Disney has deteriorated over the years, and you are certainly entitled to that opinion, but don't act like those who disagree are just idiots who haven't been elevated to your level of understanding and wisdom. We may have factors driving our decisions that you can't even relate to. The parents of a non-verbal autistic child who speaks his first word when he meets Mickey Mouse have a conception of the value of a WDW vacation that you should hope to never experience. Likewise the paraplegic who gets to fly on Soarin', or the family that has saved for a decade to experience their first Disney vacation.

And I never hear of a Make-A-Wish kid who asked to go to Wal-Mart...
That's a great counter argument...

It's just not the one to me.

Am I not presenting this as opinion? And I did mention diminished return but not what can be termed as "value". I didnt see it, if I implied it, my bad. I typically don't talk much about that because it is so subjective.

If the counter argument is "greed is good" then I reject that... Because it is not. For Disney nor anyone else.

If I offended anyone dealing with autism, special circumstances, or bob Iger's nephews...my bad. Not the intent.

I'm basing my argument on the mainstream...not the outliers (which I have no issues with whatsoever). Which if you are an expert in forensics... You'll know is not a standard basis either.
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Old 11-03-2013, 11:57 PM   #104
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You make very convincing arguments...arguments which undoubtedly resonate with a certain segment of Disney's fan base.

But at the end of the day, you're standing in the line right next to me waiting to check-in at Saratoga Springs. And later waiting to board IASW with your kids.

You demand a response--a level of discontent--from others which you yourself do not even demonstrate.
I hear you and you're right...

I'm just getting to the breakwater point a little quicker. And you must admit that you have that point somewhere on that map too...

I go because I'm holding out some hope. But the path is getting more narrow by the year.

And I don't blanket buy what they sell...my habits and spending patterns have shifted dramatically...to the point where I've all but gutted out of pocket expenditures where they want them...including an ever increasing restaurant "blacklist" and more venturing to the evil "off-property".

I don't want a boycott of wdw...but when they ram junk at us in individual segments...spinal columns by the majority would determine positive change.

That's how the "market" should operate. Crystal Pepsi went away...so did new coke...so should anything with "Disney parks" written on it.

Again...before I get flamed by crusaders... MY OPINION.
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Old 11-04-2013, 02:10 AM   #105
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I think this is a great article, and the author makes some fantastic points. Even if you're being as "pragmatic" as possible, if Disney makes its rides as "repeatable" as it can, it gives all guests an incentive to come back again. First and foremost, Disney needs people to WANT to come to its parks. This assures guest satisfaction and profits. At this point, we really don't know what Disney's long term plans are for Magic Bands. If the author is truly correct, then what we're seeing now is simply a side affect (and an added bonus/profit) for what Disney really means to do.
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