DVC RESALES
DVC RESALES

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Old 10-18-2013, 04:02 PM   #16
JimMIA
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Originally Posted by CarolMN View Post
My interpretation of the POS would not allow them to treat direct owners differently from resale owners for the existing DVC resorts for things like booking windows, annual dues or account management policies like banking, borrowing & transferring points.
I think we'd need an attorney -- and one who specializes in Florida timeshare law -- to decipher that for us. I don't know whether or not they could do some of these things, but I'm confident Disney lawyers could figure out a way to obtain the result they want.
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I suppose they could establish a new club that would allow direct purchasers better windows
That's sorta following the Wyndham model. Wyndham has taken existing unsold inventory (which could include ROFR'd points and foreclosed points), plus unsold inventory from new purchases/construction, and put it into a separate category of inventory. During the initial booking period, only members of that category can book. At some point, any Wyndham owner can book that inventory, and the owners of that inventory can book anywhere else in Wyndham.

In the case of one such program, Wyndham Club Access, the points come from a variety of resorts and the CWA members enjoy home-resort booking privileges at all CWA resorts. Their MFs are also a blend of the MFs from those resorts.
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but they'd have to figure out a way to entice owners to move their points from the existing club to the new club.
How 'bout this enticement for existing direct buyers? "If you want, we'll grandfather you in for nothing."

Last edited by JimMIA; 10-18-2013 at 06:13 PM.
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Old 10-18-2013, 05:05 PM   #17
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Wyndham has several products which can only be purchased directly which supposedly give greater access to some inventory, etc. With those products, I believe the benefits transfer upon resale.

They also have VIP levels which have different booking windows, automatic discounts and upgrades, and different rules for banking/borrowing (credit pooling in Wyndham-speak). Only directly-purchased points can be counted for VIP status. When a VIP contract is resold, the VIP status goes away...unless someone in admin makes a mistake. Few think the VIP benefits are worth the huge difference in costs.

And they have one program (PIC) which is for direct purchasers, but can be bought into by some resale purchasers for a one-time fee of about $2,500. Again, not many think it's worthwhile.

With rare exceptions, booking windows don't matter greatly with Wyndham -- with a little planning you can get what you want, in most cases.

Therefore, the cardinal rule with Wyndham is "points is points" and don't EVER purchase direct.
Thanks for the clarification. I read the long list of various perks and VIP statuses reserved to direct purchasers of Wyndham and thought, "Well, some of these must be important." Which I suppose is the point. The perfect resale restriction is one that seems like it would be valuable, but really isn't that important.
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Old 10-18-2013, 06:12 PM   #18
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The perfect resale restriction is one that seems like it would be valuable, but really isn't that important.
IMHO, the perfect direct-purchase benefit is one which costs nothing and gives the perception of being worthwhile.
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Old 10-18-2013, 08:44 PM   #19
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There are benefits you lose in resale that many around here will quickly claim have zero value yet many current DVC owners use (cruise, regular room reservations, etc.). These are all discussed many times on this board if you do a search.
As noted, we don't know how much they're used but likely far too often. I'd submit that how much they're used is not relevant as to buying or a decision to use for such matters and as I pointed out, removing this options from a resale buyers is a good thing in my book as it removes the temptation to buy extra points for the purpose or receiving a reduced value. The numbers are somewhat irrelevant to my way of thinking just like the number of people that finance expensive cars, a bad idea essentially 100% of the time. Actually there's no guarantee DVC will continue to treat current owners or retail buyers the same as future buyers either. While mostly speculation, there has been much talk of a VIP system which could easily leave out most current owners even if retail. Most timeshares systems now have such a system and of all of the 4 I own, DVC is the only one that doesn't have such a VIP system.

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No one knows what Disney will do with resale in the future. In the past, they grandfathered resale contracts when changes were made. They may or may not do that again if they decide to make further changes. Others will claim the exact same could be said for "extra" benefits granted on direct contracts (which is true) but I believe it is clearly in Disney's interest to protect direct in the future, not resale. So, to me, resale comes with some risk Disney clamps down on further benefits if they determine it has become a large enough issue in their direct sales needs. For many, this is highly unlikely but you should at least understand that potential risk and measure it for yourself.
I think we know that the core reasons one should buy DVC will continue to be present for existing resorts and is legally protected, that of using DVC points at DVC resorts and aiming mainly at the home resort as the expectation. As I see it DVC cannot take this away or create different rules for resale or retail buyers. All else is at risk but some type of exchange option (RCI or similar) is about as close to guaranteed as well, worst case scenario would be the independent exchange companies.

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It is hard to argue against the savings of resale as the difference in cost is large. However, some make it appear there is zero downside to the process, benefits, etc. In my experience, that is not accurate. Resale can close easily but it can also become a hassle. Benefits others claim have zero value other members use often. So, it might appear there is zero benefit to direct around here but many still see it differently. Just keep reading and it will probably become clear for you as you make your own value judgment.

From what I can tell, a person is just unlucky when it becomes a real headache to buy resale as most appear to close smoothly.
IF one spends enough time investigating, they should learn to put themselves in a position that will dramatically minimize any risk which done correctly is negligible other than possibly time and aggravation.
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Old 10-18-2013, 08:49 PM   #20
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Biggest disadvantage to resale:
me: lets buy into DVC
DH: how much does it cost?
me: $12K - we can afford it
DH: no
me: but we have the $$ - I'll use mom's legacy
DH: no
me: can we just go listen - they'll give us fast passes
DH: sigh** if I go will go leave it
me: sure just the FP
DH: ok but this is a waste of time
me: we can do re-sale for 1/2 the price
DH: no

That was a serious discussion
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Old 10-18-2013, 08:54 PM   #21
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It's actually kind of a mixed bag with the other systems. I did a bunch of research to see what kind of things other timeshare systems have done (figuring DVC might follow suit).
  • Hilton has no real resale restrictions at all. Everyone is in the same boat.
  • Marriott has resale restrictions that don't really matter financially; they're just minor exchange and convenience features like DVC.
  • Starwood has some serious and eye-popping restrictions on most of their resorts, basically completely blocking access to their internal reservation system for non-home resorts (though you can use external exchange companies like RCI). A few resorts are apparently grandfathered in to having only minor restrictions, again sort of similar to DVC. There is a way to get the restrictions lifted by buying more points/weeks direct.
  • Wyndham has significant restrictions. Not sure if you can get them lifted.
  • Bluegreen has significant restrictions. I believe you could get some or all of them lifted in the past, but some of those methods may not work any more.

I consider a "significant" restriction to be something that impacts your ability to book rooms in-system, i.e. the primary value of the timeshare. Things like giving booking or waitlist priority to direct buyers, or giving them extra booking time, or blocking non-home resorts via internal booking.

I think there's an indication that the more popular and valuable the brand is, the less egregious their resale restrictions are. If you have a big national brand to protect, you can't be seen to be unfair to your customers. And frankly, I find the idea of making certain features of membership non-transferrable to be fairly slimy, which may be why Hilton doesn't do it, and Marriott and Disney only have minor restrictions. No one would buy a house from a developer under the terms that you can't transfer certain features when you sell it, so I wish people would raise more of a stink about timeshare companies doing it.
I own 3 of those. I think Marriott has upped the ante with the trust points situation, as that side grows the weeks only owners will suffer a reduction in options. How important it is depends on a lot of factors but for a larger owners such as myself, it would have been significant had I not been able to take advantage. However that option to concert to the points system exchange option (Destination points) is no longer available to anyone and doubtfully ever will be for resale owners or even participating owners who buy additional resale weeks.

For Wyndham and BG it's more that they have a VIP system and resale buyers are now excluded from that system. Jim and Brian can likely give a more authoritative answer for Wyndham but I don't believe there's any way to convert a resale holding to VIP status. For BG this is currently the case, there is not way to convert resale points or fixed weeks to qualified points that I am aware of.

From a DVC perspective, I'm very surprised they haven't created a VIP system based on # of points and qualified status but given they haven't so far, I think it's not very likely going forward. However, I do think we'll see some more resale restrictions at some point. I think DVC has missed out on a lot of possible retail sales by not enticing current members to buy new resorts and extending their current contract as part of the process.
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Old 10-19-2013, 08:46 AM   #22
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Jim and Brian can likely give a more authoritative answer for Wyndham but I don't believe there's any way to convert a resale holding to VIP status.
I don't believe there is any way to convert, except possibly buying a large direct contract with the stipulation that your existing resale points are lumped in and counted toward VIP status. I don't know if that is actually available, or is just Wyndham weasel-speak, but even if it is possible I think the cost would be crazy.

Wyndham also offers a cruise program -- and it's available to ALL Wyndham owners. They have a nice variety of 3, 4, 5, and 7 night cruises on Royal Caribbean and Carnival departing from Miami, Fort Lauderdale, and Port Canaveral. If you go off-season, the points costs actually aren't that bad. Looks like the 3 & 4 day cruises off-season (which is when we'd go anyway) are about the same point costs as a 2BR at Bonnet Creek for a week. And that's for two adults in the same cabin.

Like DVC, cruising would not be the best use of Wyndham points, but it's an option...and a much lower-cost option than DCL for DVC owners.

They also have an "Adventure" program, but I didn't look that up. I'm sure the prices are stratospheric like Disney Adventures.
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Old 10-19-2013, 10:01 AM   #23
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I don't believe there is any way to convert, except possibly buying a large direct contract with the stipulation that your existing resale points are lumped in and counted toward VIP status. I don't know if that is actually available, or is just Wyndham weasel-speak, but even if it is possible I think the cost would be crazy.

Wyndham also offers a cruise program -- and it's available to ALL Wyndham owners. They have a nice variety of 3, 4, 5, and 7 night cruises on Royal Caribbean and Carnival departing from Miami, Fort Lauderdale, and Port Canaveral. If you go off-season, the points costs actually aren't that bad. Looks like the 3 & 4 day cruises off-season (which is when we'd go anyway) are about the same point costs as a 2BR at Bonnet Creek for a week. And that's for two adults in the same cabin.

Like DVC, cruising would not be the best use of Wyndham points, but it's an option...and a much lower-cost option than DCL for DVC owners.

They also have an "Adventure" program, but I didn't look that up. I'm sure the prices are stratospheric like Disney Adventures.
BG has a fairly extensive network mostly aimed at VIP owners but some options are available to others and some to anyone. You can use points for cruises, owner adventures, camping options and for some non BG hotel stays. You can use points to pay dues. You can exchange with RCI weeks, RCI points and they have a special short notice exchange option called hotweeks which costs 3000 BG points but no exchange fee, roughly $150 for any week available. As a rule, the return is not good just like for DVC but there's one big difference, DVC points are very liquid while BG's are not as much so. I've used points for 2 cruises that I wouldn't use otherwise rather than letting them expire.

Marriott has a lot of options mostly tied to the points options but with special options for VIP members. Cruises, trips akin to what ABD offers, final 4, super bowl, BCS championship, Masters, TPC, CMA, etc. Again, not a great value but if you have the points you won't use, it might be worth it.

IMO the discussion of this nature is simplest and purest for those looking to buy in to DVC or add on with these items in mind. It's a little more cloudy and individual if you've got the points you wouldn't use otherwise. I still feel that the risks involved with DVC (which has more limitations and downside than the other similar options I have) AND the sheer dollars involved make most cruising options with DVC a less than optimal choice at best. For example, with BG if I cancel a cruise reserved on points, I get all the points back under the same formula as if I canceled a cash reservation with that cruise line. I also get the actual cruise line price and not an inflated rack rate. I have no additional fee and no change fee. I do get slightly less than maint fees so I would not use except for use or lose points.
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