DVC RESALES
DVC RESALES

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Old 08-20-2013, 12:15 PM   #16
DVCcurious
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My response is based on the fact that you stayed at Pop Century and will be going to POFQ next time.

I've read a ton of these threads and here is kinda what I've seen as the Common Wisdom:

If you are the type of family who would stay at Values or Moderates and not choose to stay at Deluxe resorts then DVC will not save you money. Period.

If you are looking at Disney trips from a low-cost perspective then staying at All Stars or AoA or POFQ will always beat DVC. Throw in the fact that Disney will give you incentives (free dining, discounted rates) to pay cash for rooms and you will come out ahead staying at Value Resorts or Moderate Resorts.

From a cost perspective DVC will not beat out paying cash for Values/Moderates. Even if you get the best resale deal out there you will not come out ahead.

Now, if you are planning on staying Deluxe in the future then DVC will save you money vs paying cash for Deluxe rooms (if you stay in a studio, if you stay in a 1 bedroom you will not save money). Not a lot of money, but it will save you some.

If you don't look at DVC as a "cost savings" issue and instead as a "way to pay a little bit more to get a much better experience" issue than DVC is a great deal. Because DVC will cost you more than POFQ but you will get so much more. A 1 BR won't save you money vs paying cash for a deluxe hotel room, but you get 700+ Sq feet vs 400 Sq feet for a Monorail Deluxe room. DVC's "value" is the fact that you get more for your dollar once you are already beyond a certain price point.

If you are already set on paying "a lot" for lodging then DVC will work out. If you would be OK with Moderates or Values then DVC will not save you anything.

Last edited by DVCcurious; 08-20-2013 at 04:33 PM.
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Old 08-20-2013, 12:35 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bhoffm02 View Post
This is the way I look at it:

An average SSR resale contract is $70/pp. The current MF are $4.80/pp (rounding to $5/pp to account for increase). So the cost of a single SSR point is $5 x 40 years (remaining life of SSR contract) = $200 + $70 (purchase price per point) = $270 / 40 years (because for that 1 point contract you are actually getting 40 points. ....
Plan on that $5 to keep increasing every year, so your estimate is very low.
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Old 08-20-2013, 12:38 PM   #18
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Have you looked at resale? It took me several years to find out about the resale market. It will take a long time for DVC to pay for itself under your scenario, but you'll be staying in nicer rooms, nicer pools with slides and hot tubs, bigger beds and closer locations to most of the parks.
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Old 08-20-2013, 07:46 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Deb & Bill View Post

Plan on that $5 to keep increasing every year, so your estimate is very low.
I am not (yet) an owner but have been thinking, and re-thinking and calculating and re-calculating to see if it is worth it for me. The MF yearly increase is my only unknown. What is the average yearly increase? This will really help the calculation that you quoted above. Thanks for helping us e INFORMED CONSUMERS!
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Old 08-20-2013, 08:03 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bhoffm02 View Post

I am not (yet) an owner but have been thinking, and re-thinking and calculating and re-calculating to see if it is worth it for me. The MF yearly increase is my only unknown. What is the average yearly increase? This will really help the calculation that you quoted above. Thanks for helping us e INFORMED CONSUMERS!
There is a tread at the top of the page under "stickies". It is called DVC Resource Center. It has the past annual MF for all resorts. Very helpful.
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Old 08-20-2013, 08:32 PM   #21
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Looks like the $5 was a very low estimate! MFs have increased, on average, 30 cents per year, so if you use an average MF of 10.80, then the price per night amounts to approximately $188. Quite different than the $101 previously thought. Sorry :0/
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Old 08-20-2013, 09:18 PM   #22
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I looked for the information in the POS, but couldn't find it. I think it says annual fees can go up 15% each year. So for SSR, that gives you an average of $388/point over the life of the contract just for the member fees. That that doesn't take into account any special assessments if they are needed.
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Old 08-20-2013, 09:37 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Deb & Bill View Post
... I think it says annual fees can go up 15% each year. So for SSR, that gives you an average of $388/point over the life of the contract just for the member fees. That that doesn't take into account any special assessments if they are needed.
That comes pretty close to the $10 average MF per year I assumed above. It looks like with a $70 pp resale purchase you will end up with a price per night (for a studio) comperable to a moderate resort. However, many people say moderate is so much cheaper. Am I missing something?
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Old 08-20-2013, 10:07 PM   #24
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Other things to consider. Your kid(s) won't be young forever. You probably won't go to Disney every year but you still might want to vacation every year. DVC greatly. opens your vacation choices. (Hello Hawaii, RCI) I bought in when my youngest was 13. He's 23 now. We've been to SSR three times, two Keystone resort ski vacation, I'm going on an Alaska cruise next year and in 2 weeks I'm spending 6 nights at AKV for 70 points. The Keystone trips alone would have easily cost me $3000 each. Ski in/ski out accommodations. Two years ago I stayed at a SSR 1 bedroom unit for 7 nights.
Sure, I probably could have stayed at a value resort for less, but I'm at the point in my life (60 yrs. old) where a little bit of luxury it well worth the $$ spent 10 years ago. And it's available for my family till 2054. $900/year dues (tax deductible I might add), is a fair price to pay for quality.
I used to travel and look for the place where they leave the light on for you.... DVC has spoiled me.
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Old 08-20-2013, 10:21 PM   #25
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DH and I knew we were going to be annual visitors to WDW after our first trip in 2002. We purchased DVC in 2009. We decided that while we loved our stays at All Stars and Pop we wanted more "deluxe" vibes during vacation. DVC was where we decided to spend our extra fun money for vacations and general merriment. We do not golf, hunt, boat and while DH hates to travel he loves visiting Disney as much as I do.

Since owning DVC our trips have completely changed. We are no longer commando troopers, we simply take our time. We relax in the room with snacks and a beverage and have been able to enjoy trips with our parents and love "giving" them a studio to use when they travel with us. DVC is our luxury. We know it is a luxury and we appreciate it as a luxury.

My mantra is....owning DVC for a Disney trip is like owning a Corvette for the drive to work.

It is necessary? no. Is it expensive to maintain? yes. Is it worth every penny, every second that you are in it? absolutely.
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Old 08-21-2013, 07:17 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bhoffm02 View Post
That comes pretty close to the $10 average MF per year I assumed above. It looks like with a $70 pp resale purchase you will end up with a price per night (for a studio) comperable to a moderate resort. However, many people say moderate is so much cheaper. Am I missing something?
The potential increase, as written in the POS, is 15% PER YEAR PLUS TAXES. Realistically this is unlikely.

What I think you're missing is the time value of money for the upfront costs and the risk involved. For a moderate you should be about break even roughly. However, that compares a hotel room to a studio or a 2 BR to 2 studios. In the end few people end up using studios consistently so DVC is almost certain to cost much more. Plus it seems people often end up spending around the same they would on a given trip anyway so that adds to the cost over time.
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Old 08-21-2013, 07:46 AM   #27
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Even if you buy DVC, you will still need to buy park tickets and pay for the dining plan. All DVC gets you is lodging, prepaid (at least some of it, you still pay annual member fees each year based on the number of points you own). If moderates or values are fine, you like free dining, DVC probably really isn't for you.
Exactly.

I'm not opposed to DVC. If I had $30K in disposable income I could spend, I'd probably join. There are just so many questions you need to ask yourself:

-Will you be financing? If so, DVC probably isn't a good idea.
-Are you absolutely certain you'll be going to WDW every year for the next 40 years?
-When do you typically go to WDW and how much more is it with points for your week of the year versus other times?

I think a huge part of the DVC decision is one based on personal beliefs. Most people think I'm nuts going to Disney every year and paying to stay in Deluxe resorts. That's all fine. But my personal belief is if I can afford it, I'll do it. From year to year. Buying into DVC to me is exactly what it is - Paying for your vacations for the next 40-50 years in advance. I just don't agree with that. There are too many variables in life. I like knowing that if I can't afford to go one year, I don't have dues to pay for. Sure, you can always rent the points out, but that's just something else to deal with.

Honestly, I've found renting points from DVC members to be the best way to go for me. I love the 1 bedroom villas, and if I can rent points at $12 per point (just did for 2014), then that's great. I'm saving a bunch of money off of what Disney would charge me, but there's no long term obligation.

Bottom line - There is no right or wrong answer. You shouldn't go into DVC thinking of it as an investment, because it most certainly isn't (unless you're in the real estate game). It's a lifestyle choice that you need to make and be comfortable with.

That being said, one word of caution I would always give - NEVER buy into DVC while on vacation in WDW. 95% of those buys are bought because you're wrapped up in the magic of WDW. Take the material home, study it, crunch the numbers, THEN decide.
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Old 08-21-2013, 08:12 AM   #28
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Post A tough decision

Back in 1995, my family (lovely wife and 2 children) was faced with this same decision. However, we did not want to go to WDW every year. It just so happened, Disney was in the process of building the Hilton Head Island (HHI) resort. After our WDW trip in 1995, we drove by HHI on the way home and even though it was still under construction we loved the resort. We signed the dotted line and have never had any regrets. We have many cherished memories from our family vacations, including many at WDW. We used our points this year to stay at Disney in Hawaii (30th anniversary), what a great resort. We are using our points next year to take our extended family to HHI in a grand villa.

I say all of this to point out, think long term and not just in the present. Your family will change as ours has. We are now empty nesters, but we still have no problem using our points every year. There is more to it than just the money, but I know the money part prevents some from buying in. If I were to buy more points today, I would probably go the resale route even with the new restrictions placed on them. So, check out the resale market as well.

Have a Disney Day,
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Old 08-21-2013, 08:42 AM   #29
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The potential increase, as written in the POS, is 15% PER YEAR PLUS TAXES. Realistically this is unlikely.

What I think you're missing is the time value of money for the upfront costs and the risk involved. For a moderate you should be about break even roughly. However, that compares a hotel room to a studio or a 2 BR to 2 studios. In the end few people end up using studios consistently so DVC is almost certain to cost much more. Plus it seems people often end up spending around the same they would on a given trip anyway so that adds to the cost over time.
The other thing that is missing - harder to quantify - is risk.

Say one year, toward the end of your use year, you plan a trip and need to cancel 25 days out because your father in law had a heart attack. You can't use those points - its a year worth of 'wasted' dues and points. With a CRO reservation, you cancel and get your money back - or most of it.

The other risk has to do with reselling it if you need to - the first VGF contracts are up - whoever bought those contracts is out a bit of money on the sale - and they didn't buy them planning to resell them before the resort even opens - something happened.

DVC CAN save you money, if you had certain travel patterns, retained those travel patterns, and are disciplined. But it isn't likely - Disney keeps building it out because its a much more efficient way to pull money from our wallets to their balance sheet - and the promise of a continual revenue stream for decades. The game is rigged to the house (or mouse, if you prefer).
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Old 08-21-2013, 10:50 AM   #30
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If the intent is to stay in at least a Moderate every other year, then the answer is yes assuming you do not finance your purchase.
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