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Old 12-30-2013, 08:54 AM   #196
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Originally Posted by lockedoutlogic View Post
DVC was a tremendous score for us...its now if you buy that i think you're starting to get screwed.

if somebody goes and pays $400 a night for the Contempt, they're being robbed.
if i use 20 DVC points i paid for 10 years ago for it....i'm making out like a banshee.

and disney gets me there more...so it works for them too.
Agreed but back when we bought, did you ever think you would be staying on the monorail loop? I remember being anxious for SSR to open-- who would have thought. Those were the dark days of DVC.. hard to book.
I guess the problem is that the current pricing reflects the current options and there is probably little room for gain. Maybe they will open a DVC inside the magic kingdom. lol
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Old 12-30-2013, 04:57 PM   #197
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Agreed but back when we bought, did you ever think you would be staying on the monorail loop? I remember being anxious for SSR to open-- who would have thought. Those were the dark days of DVC.. hard to book.
I guess the problem is that the current pricing reflects the current options and there is probably little room for gain. Maybe they will open a DVC inside the magic kingdom. lol
What a coincidence...
I'm currently anxious for Saratoga to close
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Old 12-31-2013, 01:18 AM   #198
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I am the OP of this thread. Just got back for a Cruise on the Dream and a few days at the Parks. Saw the Avatarland video and I have to say, it looks like it will suck just as much as I thought. Then I see James Cameron telling us how he is there busy filiming THREE sequels to Avatar

Uh...........

I haven't heard clamoring for one sequel let alone 2 or 3?

Give me a break. This is going to be a colossal failure and a waste of years of building that could have been directed towards more enjoyable attractions.

oooooooooh I'm walking through plants( I can do that all over AK

oooooooooh I'm flying through Pandora ( I can fly at EPCOT on Soarin'

oooooooooh I'm on a boat ride through a jungle (ugh, I can....FORGET IT!!!!)
You hit the nails on their most important heads. The Avatar apologists all go on about the overinflated "box office" PR of the original, implying that means it is the foundation of a robust franchise with huge audiences frothing at the mouth for sequels, ones we are supposed to believe are in production . When that balloon pops, they fall back on "well, uh, Disney will make it great because it will be full of neat effects."

Some of us remember the best attractions are based on themes and backstorys people engage with and care about.....
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Old 12-31-2013, 08:29 AM   #199
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What a coincidence...
I'm currently anxious for Saratoga to close
Maybe if we all sell it back to Disney they can convert it into another all stars grouping. Maybe with a kennel.
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Old 12-31-2013, 10:03 AM   #200
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For the record avatar would be number 2 all time if you take out inflation

Still number one all time blue ray

About 6 million more people saw avatar than the avengers just domestically

Cant believe we still have these debates lol

I think people should judge the land on its own not by the movie even though it is a commercial and critical success

Star wars is better than twilight zone but tower of terror blows star tours away
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Old 12-31-2013, 06:56 PM   #201
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For the record avatar would be number 2 all time if you take out inflation

Still number one all time blue ray
Doesn't mean much, given Blue Ray is already a declining format (sales peaked earlier this year and are now on a permanently declining slope). Tell us about Avatar streaming from Netflix, please.

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About 6 million more people saw avatar than the avengers just domestically
Employing that logic, Disney should be building "Tara Land" with a "Gone With The Wind" E-ticket attraction, since the latter film has been seen by over 200 million ticket buyers, while Avatar is way down that list at #14 with less than half the viewers of GWTW.

http://boxofficemojo.com/alltime/adj...st_yr=1&p=.htm

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I think people should judge the land on its own not by the movie even though it is a commercial and critical success.
With all due respect, it appears you are trying to have it both ways. "Judge it on its own" is code for "I'm not confident the film tie in is going to be a meaningful draw", while simultaneously throwing out the increasingly fatigued spin that the Avatar is universally viewed some sort of landmark achievement in film history.

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Star wars is better than twilight zone but tower of terror blows star tours away
Only to those who rate g forces over narrative.
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Old 12-31-2013, 07:47 PM   #202
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Doesn't mean much, given Blue Ray is already a declining format (sales peaked earlier this year and are now on a permanently declining slope). Tell us about Avatar streaming from Netflix, please.

go ahead and dismiss facts that prove you wrong that's always good idea

Employing that logic, Disney should be building "Tara Land" with a "Gone With The Wind" E-ticket attraction, since the latter film has been seen by over 200 million ticket buyers, while Avatar is way down that list at #14 with less than half the viewers of GWTW.

First a land based on the civil war probably is not a good idea...the greatest movie ever to me is the godfather and again not a good idea for theme parks....
nope wrong again number two in world wide gross, not looking at domestic,
avatar is one of the most watched movies of the last 20 years which is s big deal...times have changed red box, net flix etc... drastically changed the movie environment...word of mouth made this movie one of the great movies over the last 20 years....77 000 000 opening weekend 68 000 000 4th weekend that's unheard of

http://boxofficemojo.com/alltime/adj...st_yr=1&p=.htm



With all due respect, it appears you are trying to have it both ways. "Judge it on its own" is code for "I'm not confident the film tie in is going to be a meaningful draw", while simultaneously throwing out the increasingly fatigued spin that the Avatar is universally viewed some sort of landmark achievement in film history.

not trying to have it both ways just trying to get people to look beyond the movie and into the wonderful concept art that was provided


Only to those who rate g forces over narrative.
star tours is the 4 most popular ride at DHS...theme park insider guest rates it below tower of terror

if you hate the idea of avatar so much why keep coming back to the thread..seems odd....give it a chance

when the next avatar movie comes out and makes a billion plus......
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Old 12-31-2013, 07:56 PM   #203
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I think im done on this thread.....
come Jan 6th Camp Minnie Mickey is closing and Pandora will begin
see ya in early 2017
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Old 12-31-2013, 07:59 PM   #204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Borishack

Doesn't mean much, given Blue Ray is already a declining format (sales peaked earlier this year and are now on a permanently declining slope). Tell us about Avatar streaming from Netflix, please.

Employing that logic, Disney should be building "Tara Land" with a "Gone With The Wind" E-ticket attraction, since the latter film has been seen by over 200 million ticket buyers, while Avatar is way down that list at #14 with less than half the viewers of GWTW.

http://boxofficemojo.com/alltime/adj...st_yr=1&p=.htm

With all due respect, it appears you are trying to have it both ways. "Judge it on its own" is code for "I'm not confident the film tie in is going to be a meaningful draw", while simultaneously throwing out the increasingly fatigued spin that the Avatar is universally viewed some sort of landmark achievement in film history.

Only to those who rate g forces over narrative.
150 million of those 200 million are dead or in nursing homes. There wasn't one overwhelming aspect of that movie that everyone loved AND would translate into a theme park.

Movie tie-ins are not required for ride success. HP and Star Wars will draw many people for good rides and some extra for franchise. However many other rides are very successful without tie-ins or with tie-ins to minimal or non-franchises such as Splash Mountain.

It is the visual world of Pandora, the imaginative fantasy nature that will be an amazing fit with Disney. What they do will be an amazing success for years to come. And if Avatar turns into a franchise - which is possible in spite of the disdain heaped upon it - that will just be so much gravy for Disney. Win - Win.

Except for one thing: Those who know better than the imagineers and know that Disney does everything wrong all the time and Avatar is the worst movie ever made: They know it is doomed to failure. I think this handful of people in the world all reside here on the DISboards.

And we can have it both ways: The environment of Pandora can stand on its own with no franchise if everyone forgets Avatar AND the movie was amazingly successful by one of the greatest directors who is making more and there is a good shot at longevity, maybe even franchise.
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Old 01-01-2014, 01:15 AM   #205
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150 million of those 200 million are dead or in nursing homes. There wasn't one overwhelming aspect of that movie that everyone loved AND would translate into a theme park.
Did you actually think I was suggesting Disney build Tara land? The fact stands Avatar is way, way down the list of the most watched films, contrary to the spin being made on this thread.

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Movie tie-ins are not required for ride success.
No one is saying they are. But what many are missing is that substantive theme is -and that the latter is sorely lacking in the vapid Avatar realm.

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It is the visual world of Pandora, the imaginative fantasy nature that will be an amazing fit with Disney.
That is a supposition, not a fact. Cameron is a micromanager and a documented control freak who is legendarily difficult to work with. Or stated differently, the narrative in "Saving Mr. Banks" (which was a heavily steam cleaned version of the real story , but that's a separate discussion) is nothing compared to what the imagineers are facing in trying to design and execute a theme park attraction with this "partner." By the time Disney actually opens anything based on Avatar (if that ever happens), Universal will have dramatically lengthened it's already clear lead in being the real attraction innovator.
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Old 01-01-2014, 02:03 AM   #206
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The fact stands Avatar is way, way down the list of the most watched films, contrary to the spin being made on this thread.
So your argument is the confirmed box office numbers, the confirmed Blu-ray sales numbers, and the confirmed ticket sales are all spin and we should just trust you?

How about the Academy awards, Golden Globes, and Saturn awards or all the positive reviews on Rotten Tomatoes where 83% of critics and 82% of audiences liked it, is that spin too?

Forgive my sarcasm but it seems everyone you've accused of spin have facts and you haven't supplied a single piece of evidence to dispute them. You may hate the movie and the idea behind the AK addition but if you are going to say people are spinning this in a positive light when they are using cold hard data you should probably have more than your opinion to back that up with.
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Old 01-01-2014, 09:55 AM   #207
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Did you actually think I was suggesting Disney build Tara land? The fact stands Avatar is way, way down the list of the most watched films, contrary to the spin being made on this thread.
No, I didn't, you brought it up to deflect from a perfectly good point. In MODERN history Avatar absolutely DWARFED what everyone considers the biggest franchise of the day, Marvel's the Avengers.

Rank Title Studio Worldwide / % Year^
1 Avatar Fox $2,782.3 2009
2 Titanic Par. $2,186.8 1997
3 Marvel's The Avengers BV $1,518.6 2012
4 Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows Part 2 WB $1,341.5 2011
5 Iron Man 3 BV $1,215.4 2013
6 Transformers: Dark of the Moon P/DW $1,123.8 2011
7 The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King NL $1,119.9 2003

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No one is saying they are. But what many are missing is that substantive theme is -and that the latter is sorely lacking in the vapid Avatar realm.
Really? REALLY!? You cannot see the theme!!!!!? Do you remember the cultural wave in 2009 when EVERYWHERE in our culture EVERYONE, love or hate the movie, was talking about the amazing world of Pandora and the wonderful flora and fauna!!!! The world is rich, vibrant, imaginative. Those flying dragons are awesome and will be so much better than Soarin', just as the Cars ride is so much better than Test Track even though based on the same technology.

You don't want to see it because you hate the movie and hate everything Disney does. To the average person it is amazingly obvious.


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Originally Posted by Borishack View Post
That is a supposition, not a fact. Cameron is a micromanager and a documented control freak who is legendarily difficult to work with. Or stated differently, the narrative in "Saving Mr. Banks" (which was a heavily steam cleaned version of the real story , but that's a separate discussion) is nothing compared to what the imagineers are facing in trying to design and execute a theme park attraction with this "partner." By the time Disney actually opens anything based on Avatar (if that ever happens), Universal will have dramatically lengthened it's already clear lead in being the real attraction innovator.
Now you are trying to have it both ways. Haters complain that Disney doesn't do enough to build great rides like Harry Potter. So Disney partners with one of the greatest artists and inventors, that is a driven control freak that wants to build the best possible attractions, and is obviously a perfect fit for the imagineers - as they both are artists, engineers, and inventors. Yes, they will drive each other nuts AND build something amazing. Cameron will drive them to not settle for anything less. And now you hate Disney for picking someone that will force them to do the best possible rides!

You don't want to like it. No matter what.

Anyway, this won't go anywhere. We will just have to agree to disagree and wait and see what happens.

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So your argument is the confirmed box office numbers, the confirmed Blu-ray sales numbers, and the confirmed ticket sales are all spin and we should just trust you?

How about the Academy awards, Golden Globes, and Saturn awards or all the positive reviews on Rotten Tomatoes where 83% of critics and 82% of audiences liked it, is that spin too?

Forgive my sarcasm but it seems everyone you've accused of spin have facts and you haven't supplied a single piece of evidence to dispute them. You may hate the movie and the idea behind the AK addition but if you are going to say people are spinning this in a positive light when they are using cold hard data you should probably have more than your opinion to back that up with.


This is the pattern:
  1. I love Disney.
  2. Everything Disney does is wrong.
  3. I hate Disney. Deeply. And despise everything they do.
  4. Because I love Disney.





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Old 01-01-2014, 01:00 PM   #208
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Disney partners with one of the greatest artists and inventors, that is a driven control freak that wants to build the best possible attractions, and is obviously a perfect fit for the imagineers - as they both are artists, engineers, and inventors.
Yes, certainly....even though Disney can’t even build a small roller coaster in Florida without incurring massive delays, while Universal keeps growing by building attractions people like with the kind of theming Disney used to be known for.

So have fun dreaming about a 2017 opening for "the-overwhelming- majority-of-people-who-saw-the-movie-can't-even-name-a-character-from-it " land. In 2020 we will still have the advocates for this supposed work of art telling us an opening will be happening at some future date.
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Old 01-01-2014, 02:35 PM   #209
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I give in. You are right. Universal is wonderful and doing everything right and Disney is terrible and will fail.

That is why we are all on this board after all.

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Old 01-01-2014, 05:54 PM   #210
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I honestly cannot believe this is still happening...the movie was so-so, I barely remember it and what I do remember was not all that. Now Beastly Kingdom that is something I could get excited about.
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