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Old 07-27-2013, 07:14 PM   #301
smitch425
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Dining plan prices were recently raised and took effect immediately for new bookings. To my knowledge, that is the first time that has ever happened mid-year. Perhaps it is not related, but it could be to account for the additional cost of the new mugs and being rolled out sooner than later.
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Old 07-27-2013, 07:38 PM   #302
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Why would it matter if someone on the dining plan get a non-RFID cup or an RFID cup?

If this wasn't going into place until the New Year, they wouldn't be taking valuable space to put the dispensers in today.
The dispensers aren't taking up valuable space. They are taking the same place that the old soda dispensers took. There isn't any size difference and actually look similar.
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Old 07-27-2013, 07:41 PM   #303
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I don't suppose there's any news or info out on how this would work with hot beverages like tea, coffee, and hot cocoa?

Water out of these dispensers remains free and unlimited, right?

I did notice (last night) that there appears to be new coffee and hot water dispensers and appear to have a RFID screen on the top of each device. This was at A of A. The hot chocolate dispenser looks like the same old one and separate from coffee and soda.
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Old 07-28-2013, 12:13 AM   #304
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So drink bottled water and blame it on the plastic.
I don't drink bottled water
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Old 07-28-2013, 12:28 AM   #305
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I've been thinking about how they are going to make for a smooth transition. I think the smartest thing for them to do would be to have a new design for sale (at least in some way) when the Rapid Fill program actually starts and grandfather in the beach design for, say 14 days from start of program. That way would cause the least friction for guests I would think.

If they are not going to change the design of the mug (I wish they would, even though the beach design is cute, it's getting old), then I think that the mugs they are putting out at this time do actually have the RFID chips in them and when they are ready to switch they can simply turn the key to the machines and they're all ready. If they have had the RFID chips embedded for a while any recently purchased mugs should have them and they would have a countdown time activated for 14 days just to not upset customers.

The downside to that would be that the CMs would have to suddenly deal with any beach design mugs that were purchased before they switched to the RFID embedded chips.

The biggest argument against myself is that there would probably have to be a warning on the mugs if they had RFID chips in them (due to the microwaving issue) so it wouldn't make sense for them to be selling them with the chips without informing the guests.

So... I hope they are going to use totally new mugs. I would think they would. I didn't read all the pages of this thread but I think I read somewhere that Valid-Fill uses a specific company that puts in the chips and offers a variety of cup styles.

If Disney was having chips embedded within the cups (which I think they are) then it only makes sense to have new designs at the same time.

I think making the switch without changing designs would be a hot mess if they are trying to avoid guests being embarrassed. (Which they must be or they would have cracked down on previous abuse).

Sorry so rambling. I must be tired.
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Old 07-28-2013, 12:37 AM   #306
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Oh, and put me down for the group that would like to bring back my RFID mugs for future use and pay to have my RFID chip reactivated.

Renewal prices like ...


One day $5
Two days $8
Three days $10
Four to Fourteen days $13

Then I would feel better not wasting plastic and all.

I wouldn't be surprised if they started doing that (maybe not with my specific pricing )
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Old 07-28-2013, 12:18 PM   #307
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Originally Posted by Rosanne View Post
Oh, and put me down for the group that would like to bring back my RFID mugs for future use and pay to have my RFID chip reactivated.

Renewal prices like ...


One day $5
Two days $8
Three days $10
Four to Fourteen days $13

Then I would feel better not wasting plastic and all.

I wouldn't be surprised if they started doing that (maybe not with my specific pricing )
The "rumored" cost of mugs to Disney is anywhere from 75c to $3. Assume the $3 figure is close. Your numbers assume a $4 or $5 discount. Assume the $3 figure is accurate and the bring your own mug prices are:

$6 $9, $12 and $15. How many guests would bring back their mugs for a $3 savings?

What would Disney do if the RFID chip didn't consistently work. How many times in a dishwasher before there is an issue? How many people might have microwaved the cup at least once? Would people get upset if Disney wants them to pay an extra $3 for a new mug? Does(can?) Disney put an RFID sticker on the old mug?

I'll speculate relatively few guests will be bringing back old mugs if the only benefit was a nominal discount equivalent to the wholesale cost of the mugs.

I remember some of the old threads. It seemed like some guests were keeping their mugs in a "vault" so they'd be in great shape for decades of return trips. Use your mug at home. Put it in the dishwasher. It will eventually look old, faded and beat up.
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Old 07-28-2013, 12:29 PM   #308
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Originally Posted by Lewisc View Post
The "rumored" cost of mugs to Disney is anywhere from 75c to $3. Assume the $3 figure is close. Your numbers assume a $4 or $5 discount. Assume the $3 figure is accurate and the bring your own mug prices are:

$6 $9, $12 and $15. How many guests would bring back their mugs for a $3 savings?

What would Disney do if the RFID chip didn't consistently work. How many times in a dishwasher before there is an issue? How many people might have microwaved the cup at least once? Would people get upset if Disney wants them to pay an extra $3 for a new mug? Does(can?) Disney put an RFID sticker on the old mug?

I'll speculate relatively few guests will be bringing back old mugs if the only benefit was a nominal discount equivalent to the wholesale cost of the mugs.

I remember some of the old threads. It seemed like some guests were keeping their mugs in a "vault" so they'd be in great shape for decades of return trips. Use your mug at home. Put it in the dishwasher. It will eventually look old, faded and beat up.

I think for people flying or who come to Disney only once in a very long while a revalidation situation wouldn't make sense.

For people who drive or live pretty close it would make sense (whether or not they want to is their own choice). My biggest thing is I don't need any more Disney mugs (certainly not the same design over and over) so I would rather pay a revalidation fee. If there could be an issue with RFID chips remaining in adequate working condition then a sticker would be totally fine.

For me it's not the whopping $3 or so savings per mug as much as it is trying to have less plastic waste. I do think some savings is appropriate though.

If they don't, they don't. I won't lose sleep over it. I just think it would be a more ecologically sound option for frequent visitors if they chose to do it.
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Old 07-29-2013, 12:28 PM   #309
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Originally Posted by Rosanne View Post
I think for people flying or who come to Disney only once in a very long while a revalidation situation wouldn't make sense.

For people who drive or live pretty close it would make sense (whether or not they want to is their own choice). My biggest thing is I don't need any more Disney mugs (certainly not the same design over and over) so I would rather pay a revalidation fee. If there could be an issue with RFID chips remaining in adequate working condition then a sticker would be totally fine.

For me it's not the whopping $3 or so savings per mug as much as it is trying to have less plastic waste. I do think some savings is appropriate though.

If they don't, they don't. I won't lose sleep over it. I just think it would be a more ecologically sound option for frequent visitors if they chose to do it.
Me too. I have so many resort mugs and would love to have the option to bring them back. I think that's why so many people kept bringing back theirs (even though they shouldn't have). I think Disney should give guests the option of using older mugs and paying for the refill option.
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Old 07-29-2013, 02:28 PM   #310
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Originally Posted by Rosanne View Post
I think for people flying or who come to Disney only once in a very long while a revalidation situation wouldn't make sense.
I understand your point. I'll speculate their aren't enough guests in your category to justify the inherent issues in re-activating old mugs. I think a lot of people in your position, customers close enough to drive several to WDW often, will say something like I might as well spend an extra few bucks and get a new mug.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosanne View Post
I've been thinking about how they are going to make for a smooth transition. I think the smartest thing for them to do would be to have a new design for sale (at least in some way) when the Rapid Fill program actually starts and grandfather in the beach design for, say 14 days from start of program.
It depends on how many old mugs Disney wants to move. They could just as easily start selling the new mugs, with the RFID chip active days, or even weeks, before the machine checks the chip. They wouldn't need a 14 day "grace" period. Maybe 7 days. At that point a CM could assist customers who are still entitled to refills. Give them a new mug, put a sticker on the old mug or just manually override the system for every fill. I'd think most guests with old mug designs and mugs so beat up they were obviously brought back wouldn't bother to fight the issue. Don't a significant number of customers pay for their mugs via room charge?

People want to know how to "beat" the system.

Paper cups are reported to allow up to 4 fills over the course of an hour. Garbage pails have to contain cups with fills remaining.

According to the FAQ linked in the OP customers not staying at WDW resorts are permitted to purchase a refillable mug. Just tell the CM you're staying for 14 days. At the end of your stay sell the mug to an arriving guest. Maybe we can set up swaps.

Disney's inventory of existing refillable mugs. Can be sold as souvenirs at WDW. Sold as souvenirs in outlet stores. I don't know if putting an RFID sticker on the mug is a big deal. They could be sold with the same sticker as a paper cups as an upgrade. Only an extra dollar gets you a souvenir mug instead of a paper cup.
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Old 07-29-2013, 07:13 PM   #311
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Originally Posted by Lewisc View Post
I understand your point. I'll speculate their aren't enough guests in your category to justify the inherent issues in re-activating old mugs. I think a lot of people in your position, customers close enough to drive several to WDW often, will say something like I might as well spend an extra few bucks and get a new mug.


Actually, I don't think you did get my point. It's not about the money. It's about the plastic waste.


It depends on how many old mugs Disney wants to move. They could just as easily start selling the new mugs, with the RFID chip active days, or even weeks, before the machine checks the chip. They wouldn't need a 14 day "grace" period. Maybe 7 days. At that point a CM could assist customers who are still entitled to refills. Give them a new mug, put a sticker on the old mug or just manually override the system for every fill. I'd think most guests with old mug designs and mugs so beat up they were obviously brought back wouldn't bother to fight the issue. Don't a significant number of customers pay for their mugs via room charge?

People want to know how to "beat" the system.

Paper cups are reported to allow up to 4 fills over the course of an hour. Garbage pails have to contain cups with fills remaining.

According to the FAQ linked in the OP customers not staying at WDW resorts are permitted to purchase a refillable mug. Just tell the CM you're staying for 14 days. At the end of your stay sell the mug to an arriving guest. Maybe we can set up swaps.

Disney's inventory of existing refillable mugs. Can be sold as souvenirs at WDW. Sold as souvenirs in outlet stores. I don't know if putting an RFID sticker on the mug is a big deal. They could be sold with the same sticker as a paper cups as an upgrade. Only an extra dollar gets you a souvenir mug instead of a paper cup.

I don't really know how much of the above you were relating to my PP about the way to make the change with the least amount of customer friction.

I had also stated in that PP.

"If they are not going to change the design of the mug (I wish they would, even though the beach design is cute, it's getting old), then I think that the mugs they are putting out at this time do actually have the RFID chips in them and when they are ready to switch they can simply turn the key to the machines and they're all ready. If they have had the RFID chips embedded for a while any recently purchased mugs should have them and they would have a countdown time activated for 14 days just to not upset customers."

The advantage to 14 days is that the labor hours and customer confusion could be completely avoided as that is the max time available. There would be no need for CM intervention. If someone brought mugs from months ago they would not work.

I'm not sure if you are taking my posts as suggestions on how to "get away" with mug swaps or abuse. It may simply be that you are including random thoughts in your responses to my posts.
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Old 07-29-2013, 07:17 PM   #312
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I would love to just pay extra to use the cups I already have for environmental reasons. I must have about 20 of them that I have collected over the years. I don't use them after I leave the resort but for some reason I can't seem to be able throw them away. Some of them are really cute and I would love to able to look at the mugs that people bring back just to see what year they originally came from!
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Old 07-29-2013, 09:33 PM   #313
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I understand your stated goal in reusing your old mugs is to reduce plastic waste. My point..I don't think there are enough customers who share your philosophy to justify spending resources setting up a system and dealing with the inevitable issues. We agree people who fly are unlikely to bring back mugs. I think many people would rather spend the extra few dollars and get a new mug.

Disney might change their position if enough people ask, and if Disney determines the RFID chip is likely to work properly if the mug is used on a subsequent trip. I don't know how many times the mug can go in the dishwasher before there is an issue.

You're right. My post isn't a direct rebuttal to your points but rather my thoughts as to any transition. Disney is going to have some customer friction. People are going to say, I was told I could bring back my mugs. Current mugs are valid for the length of your current stay in that resort. You aren't limited to 14 days. 7 days should take care of most of the customers. CMs can take care of the few guests who have an issue.





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Originally Posted by Rosanne View Post
I don't really know how much of the above you were relating to my PP about the way to make the change with the least amount of customer friction.

I had also stated in that PP.

"If they are not going to change the design of the mug (I wish they would, even though the beach design is cute, it's getting old), then I think that the mugs they are putting out at this time do actually have the RFID chips in them and when they are ready to switch they can simply turn the key to the machines and they're all ready. If they have had the RFID chips embedded for a while any recently purchased mugs should have them and they would have a countdown time activated for 14 days just to not upset customers."

The advantage to 14 days is that the labor hours and customer confusion could be completely avoided as that is the max time available. There would be no need for CM intervention. If someone brought mugs from months ago they would not work.

I'm not sure if you are taking my posts as suggestions on how to "get away" with mug swaps or abuse. It may simply be that you are including random thoughts in your responses to my posts.
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Old 07-30-2013, 12:15 PM   #314
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I couldn't read all 21 pages so get mad at me if you want if this has already been stated...

The end all on why they won't do the re-certify the RFID on old cups boils down to the almighty dollar. Why offer it when they can make $18 per cup. Now if after the initial purchase rush calms down, due to the people bringing back old mugs and having to buy new ones, and Disney realizes that people are buying more stuff off-site they may re-address it but I doubt it will be anytime soon. (Wow that was a long sentence) If Disney can make money they will and we all know it. Every time there is a price increase everyone says that they are not going again or if they raise the prices anymore they won't be able to afford it, what does Disney do? They raise the prices again the next year. Disney will keep raising prices until they see a negative return on their actions, so do not expect any re-certify on the RFID's in the near (and not so near) future.

On the plastic waste issue, RECYCLE. Heck, my parents live in an extremely rural area and they can recycle if they want so this is a non-issue in my mind.


Of course this is all my opinion so take it with a grain of salt. Now I am going to sit back and watch all the shots across my bow for stating my opinion.
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Old 07-30-2013, 12:29 PM   #315
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I couldn't read all 21 pages so get mad at me if you want if this has already been stated...

The end all on why they won't do the re-certify the RFID on old cups boils down to the almighty dollar. Why offer it when they can make $18 per cup. Now if after the initial purchase rush calms down, due to the people bringing back old mugs and having to buy new ones, and Disney realizes that people are buying more stuff off-site they may re-address it but I doubt it will be anytime soon. (Wow that was a long sentence) If Disney can make money they will and we all know it. Every time there is a price increase everyone says that they are not going again or if they raise the prices anymore they won't be able to afford it, what does Disney do? They raise the prices again the next year. Disney will keep raising prices until they see a negative return on their actions, so do not expect any re-certify on the RFID's in the near (and not so near) future.

On the plastic waste issue, RECYCLE. Heck, my parents live in an extremely rural area and they can recycle if they want so this is a non-issue in my mind.


Of course this is all my opinion so take it with a grain of salt. Now I am going to sit back and watch all the shots across my bow for stating my opinion.
Where that argument breaks down is that they can still make money on mug re-use - just charge them the money. Not talking about giving it away for free.

Depending on how expensive the physical mug actually is, Disney could in fact make MORE money. Say, if each mug costs $3 to Disney for production, overhead, etc., and Disney only gave a $2 discount for re-using a compatible mug, then they'd make an extra $1 per purchase.

Of course, that's an example ... I don't know how much the mugs cost but it's probably a lot less...now, if the mug only costs $1, but guests won't re-use unless it's at least a $2 discount, then Disney loses on the deal.

As for recycling, keep in mind recycling is not 100% effective. In some cases it is more expensive that producing from new source material. Not putting the plastic out in the first place is better.
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