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Old 07-03-2013, 05:15 PM   #16
mom2rtk
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Originally Posted by doconeill View Post
There is a difference between shorter and faster when it comes to the standby line.

It can be physically longer, but if they are taking more people from it per cycle, it can actually be faster/shorter wait time.

From some information that's coming from Disney lately, they appear to be hoping to make the standby line faster - and what they are saying is that they plan to reduce the number of Fastpasses issued to do it.

However, this info seems to be in conflict with others, so it remains to be seen what will happen. It depends on predicting the mob mentality, which is tough when the system is not available to everyone yet.
Quite a mish mash of theories, isn't it?

Maybe they think that by adding fastpass to attractions that didn't have it before (Haunted Mansion, ETWB, Great Movie Ride, Captain EO), they will give people a route to a faster line..... even though it will certainly lengthen the wait for those left in the standby line.
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Old 07-03-2013, 05:16 PM   #17
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Disney is frankly screwed in terms of having shorter lines. They would have to make more good rides which we all know disney is not willing to do right now or they have to jump prices to 140 a day. I believe a major price jump will not hinder the profits but will thin the parks. It is a matter of time.
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Old 07-03-2013, 05:22 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by BuckeyeBama View Post
I remember a time when there were no fast passes, and the waits were very, very long. That is why WDW implemented the FP system.
Disney implemented FP to get people out of those long waits and into shops and restaurants while they waited.

They seemed to forget that there was a third option - get into other lines. Which is what most guests did.

If the guests didn't get into other lines, the wait in the standby line should have been the same with FP as without - the total capacity of the attraction didn't change.

But given that guests could now occupy two (or more) lines at once, essentially, the standby line times at the major attractions would be adversely affected.

By at least reducing the number of FPs issued, the standby line would move faster. By limiting the number of FP+ that a guest can use, it may in fact make them shorter too, as they won't be occupying multiple lines as much.
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Old 07-03-2013, 05:40 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by doconeill View Post
Disney implemented FP to get people out of those long waits and into shops and restaurants while they waited.

They seemed to forget that there was a third option - get into other lines. Which is what most guests did.
Which just proves that sometimes Disney misses the boat in predicting how these newfangled systems will pan out in reality.

"We sense that our guests want to interact more with their electronic devices when they are in the parks".

Uh..... nope.
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Old 07-03-2013, 05:52 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doconeill View Post
Disney implemented FP to get people out of those long waits and into shops and restaurants while they waited.

They seemed to forget that there was a third option - get into other lines. Which is what most guests did.
I have this EXCEPTIONALLY great idea on how to get guests to stop riding and go into the shops and restaurants.

Every 3 hours, all day long, they simply stop running the attractions and offer discount prices at all restaurants and shops.

"Attention Disney guests... for the next hour, Disney is offering a special price to all guests who'd like to take a MagicBreak for shopping and a snack...
Check the MyMagic Displays around the park (and on your MyDisneyExperience Wireless application) for this hour's MagicDiscounts.
We hope you take advantage of our MagicBreak and enjoy all that Disney has to offer.

(Send my 250 million dollar planning fee- C/O "Robo" at Disboards.com.)
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Old 07-03-2013, 05:55 PM   #21
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Technologically competent? I suggest you use their web site for a few days. It has been deficient for over a decade.
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Old 07-03-2013, 05:59 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robo View Post
I have this EXCEPTIONALLY great idea on how to get guests to stop riding and go into the shops and restaurants.

Every 3 hours, all day long, they simply stop running the attractions and offer discount prices at all restaurants and shops.
You mean that's not what they're already doing? Cuz that would mean the rides were actually breaking down that often............ This can't be good........
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Old 07-03-2013, 06:05 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doconeill View Post
Disney implemented FP to get people out of those long waits and into shops and restaurants while they waited.

They seemed to forget that there was a third option - get into other lines. Which is what most guests did.

If the guests didn't get into other lines, the wait in the standby line should have been the same with FP as without - the total capacity of the attraction didn't change.

But given that guests could now occupy two (or more) lines at once, essentially, the standby line times at the major attractions would be adversely affected.

By at least reducing the number of FPs issued, the standby line would move faster. By limiting the number of FP+ that a guest can use, it may in fact make them shorter too, as they won't be occupying multiple lines as much.
It might not work out that way. Although the standby lines would move faster, they could also become longer due to the lack of FP's, thus nullifying the benefit of the faster moving line and resulting in the same wait time..
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Old 07-03-2013, 06:13 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Dannek View Post
It might not work out that way. Although the standby lines would move faster, they could also become longer due to the lack of FP's, thus nullifying the benefit of the faster moving line and resulting in the same wait time..
The reduction in FPs is a new factor we really weren't expecting to hear, but like I said, not sure how real that is. But the sentence after the one you quoted also points out that with the number of FP+s used per guest restricted, it can actually reduce the length of the lines. I saved this from a previous post which explains why:

It can be argued that those riding TSM more than once are likely doing so via Fastpass, at least once. Not all, but probably the majority. Some are very likely to be doing it using multiple Fastpasses.

Now, if you can only get one FP+, what happens? Warning...assumptions ahead, but based on observation and logic!!! (No, Doc, don't bring logic into this!!!)

Assumption 1: Regardless if you can get more FP+ in the park, you can still only get one per attraction.

Assumption 2: Those riding TSM with FP/FP+ will not be required to have to choose a FP+ for TSM or something else due to number of FP+ limitations or potential tiering of attractions.

Let's give names to different classes of TSM riders. And see if I can pull together a coherent argument despite interruptions.

The "duplicates". They get multiple FPs through the day for TSM, and ride 2+ times via FP, and potentially via standby as well, although if they do I expect it isn't more than once.

The "fast-and-slows". They ride twice - once standby, once FP.

The "one-and-dones". They only ride once, either standby or FP, but are at least FP-savvy.

The "don't-get-its", those who don't understand FP, and probably still won't understand FP+.

Now, the "fast-and-slows" aren't likely to change at all, since the changes don't affect them as far as this argument goes (they may need to make a choice and give up their TSM FP+ for something else, but lets assume they don't need to make that choice). So we can ignore them.

The "don't-get-its" also aren't likely to change. They are still a constant in the standby lines with their glares.

The duplicates are definitely affected, as they now can't get more than one FP. So what do they do? They can still ride multiple times, but they have to do it via standby. Some will, but I have a feeling most likely only do so because of FP, and won't. So while a few might go standby and increase the line there, others won't. So less FP usage, with a lesser increase in standby usage. This alone would be a standby win as standby users will take the missing FP slots. Advantage: Standby.

Now the "one-and-dones" are also affected. Those that end up in the standby line simply because there are no FPs available after noon, now have the potential to get a FP+ given up by the former duplicates. They likely will fill all those slots again - but then they are taking themselves out of the standby line on a 1-for-1 basis. So although the FP+ line goes back to before, the standby line decreases by the same degree, so it is shorter. Advantage: Standby.

Now of course there could be outliers - former one-and-dones that become opportunistic fast-and-slows now that a FP+ is dangled in front of them, but in the same token some duplicates and fast-and-slows may opt all the way down to one-and-dones. And for each former duplicate that used to ride 3+ times and now drops to 1, there are that many more slots opened for others.

That's why I'm actually seeing this as a potential win for the standby line.
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Old 07-03-2013, 06:18 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mom2rtk View Post
"We sense that our guests want to interact more with their electronic devices when they are in the parks".
I just shook my head when that quote came out.
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Old 07-03-2013, 06:21 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doconeill View Post
By at least reducing the number of FPs issued, the standby line would move faster. By limiting the number of FP+ that a guest can use, it may in fact make them shorter too, as they won't be occupying multiple lines as much.
Yeah, I think this may be what they're going for. They probably would have gotten a lot of negative reactions if they'd simply cut the number of old-skool FP's you could get. The whole newness of FP+ will probably distract a lot of people from the fact that they're getting a smaller number of passes than they could before.
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Old 07-03-2013, 06:25 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by doconeill View Post
That's why I'm actually seeing this as a potential win for the standby line.
If you need this many twists and turns to see a potential win, you need to remember Occam's Razor.
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Old 07-03-2013, 07:51 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by SciFi View Post
I wonder if there were any in the board room suggesting they take the money they would have spent on next gen and add more attractions. This may have given all the stake holders what they were after.

I'm reminded of the part in Jurrassic Park when the character played by Jeff Goldblum says "your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should."

However, I still hope I am pleasantly surprised in the end regardless of my current misgivings.
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Old 07-03-2013, 08:12 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuckeyeBama View Post
Only two things can make standby lines shorter for the major attractions:

* Fewer guests - not happening anytime soon
* More major rides to spread out the crowds - only the mine train ride comes close in the near future
More major rides would help, but I'm sure they will just increase the park capacity to make more money, not really caring about the guest experience, rather than keep the current number of guests happy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BuzzBelleMom View Post
A thought (you can decide if it is horrible) just popped into my mind: FP+ and long standby for CoP.
Now we all have that song going through our heads.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 999DoomBuggies View Post
Disney is frankly screwed in terms of having shorter lines. They would have to make more good rides which we all know disney is not willing to do right now or they have to jump prices to 140 a day. I believe a major price jump will not hinder the profits but will thin the parks. It is a matter of time.
I saw several posts about surprisingly thin crowds and uncrowded restaurants this past week - I wonder what that is about?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robo View Post
I have this EXCEPTIONALLY great idea on how to get guests to stop riding and go into the shops and restaurants.

Every 3 hours, all day long, they simply stop running the attractions and offer discount prices at all restaurants and shops.

"Attention Disney guests... for the next hour, Disney is offering a special price to all guests who'd like to take a MagicBreak for shopping and a snack...
Check the MyMagic Displays around the park (and on your MyDisneyExperience Wireless application) for this hour's MagicDiscounts.
We hope you take advantage of our MagicBreak and enjoy all that Disney has to offer.

(Send my 250 million dollar planning fee- C/O "Robo" at Disboards.com.)
Kind of like when you area at a public pool and the Lifeguard blows the whistle for "adult swim."

Quote:
Originally Posted by mom2rtk View Post
You mean that's not what they're already doing? Cuz that would mean the rides were actually breaking down that often............ This can't be good........
I never considered this could be the case
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Old 07-03-2013, 08:28 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robo View Post
I have this EXCEPTIONALLY great idea on how to get guests to stop riding and go into the shops and restaurants.

Every 3 hours, all day long, they simply stop running the attractions and offer discount prices at all restaurants and shops.

"Attention Disney guests... for the next hour, Disney is offering a special price to all guests who'd like to take a MagicBreak for shopping and a snack...
Check the MyMagic Displays around the park (and on your MyDisneyExperience Wireless application) for this hour's MagicDiscounts.
We hope you take advantage of our MagicBreak and enjoy all that Disney has to offer.

(Send my 250 million dollar planning fee- C/O "Robo" at Disboards.com.)
I don't know about stopping the attractions , but people do like sales. You just double the prices and then mark everything fifty percent off.
How about better, more unique merchandise? Every time we go to Florida, my kids get spending money from relatives and then spend very little of it at Disney because there's nothing they want. When they have bought toys, the quality was very poor.

I'm also surprised they haven't built a larger Star Wars area at DHS along with more product promotion, especially with the new movie plans. My older children are much more interested in Star Wars (and Harry Potter) now than princesses or pirates.
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