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Old 08-28-2013, 11:14 PM   #241
BuddyThomas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luv'sTink View Post
I wanted to add; Anyone who would do something to someones food for not tipping is not only immature, they are disgusting and have some real issues for feeling they are owed something that is a gift, not an entitlement. And anyone who condones it, is just as bad.
You are 100% correct in everything you just said except for the assertion that your tip is a "gift". Do you make your children work and serve you in order to receive a birthday gift? Just askin'.
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Old 08-29-2013, 12:43 AM   #242
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Originally Posted by BuddyThomas View Post

You are 100% correct in everything you just said except for the assertion that your tip is a "gift". Do you make your children work and serve you in order to receive a birthday gift? Just askin'.
That has as little do do with the subject at hand as the strip club remark.

Seriously, you're reaching...
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Old 08-29-2013, 05:29 AM   #243
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Originally Posted by cymbaldiva View Post
That has as little do do with the subject at hand as the strip club remark.

Seriously, you're reaching...
I disagree. Almost everyone knows that a tip is considered part of the wages of anyone who waits tables. Yet some choose to ignore that fact, and still want to consider it an extra bonus. Maybe it is what it should be, but that fact is it is not. And until the restaurant business is overhauled and tips are just that, extra bonuses, if you don't leave a tip you are stiffing the person who brings you your food and drink.

We all know how the system works. You (in general) are not changing it by shorting someone part of their pay, because you don't like it. You are just being a jerk.
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Old 08-29-2013, 06:54 AM   #244
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Originally Posted by maxiesmom View Post
I disagree. Almost everyone knows that a tip is considered part of the wages of anyone who waits tables. Yet some choose to ignore that fact, and still want to consider it an extra bonus. Maybe it is what it should be, but that fact is it is not. And until the restaurant business is overhauled and tips are just that, extra bonuses, if you don't leave a tip you are stiffing the person who brings you your food and drink.

We all know how the system works. You (in general) are not changing it by shorting someone part of their pay, because you don't like it. You are just being a jerk.
And the bolded is the key. I, and I'm assuming others, are advocating overhauling the current system. We are NOT advocating stiffing waitstaff.

However, as soon as someone says they think the current system is "broken" and needs to be changed, we are labeled as "cheap" and "stingy" and told "if you can't afford the tip, don't go out". Plus, some apparently think it's ok for waitstaff to "sabotage" an order if a customer has stiffed them in the past.

By the way, the definition of gratuity http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/gratuity?s=t:
Quote:
gra·tu·i·ty [gruh-too-i-tee, -tyoo-] Show IPA
noun, plural gra·tu·i·ties.
1.
a gift of money, over and above payment due for service, as to a waiter or bellhop; tip.
2.
something given without claim or demand.
So, yes, while a tip is considered part of the wage/expected, going by the definition, it IS a gift, or something not required. So let all restaurants automatically add 18% to the bill, call it a "service charge" and be done. If someone wants to give extra on top of that, they're allowed to. But they shouldn't be chased down if they don't, or have their order sabotaged.

It's already done for "parties of 8 or more", so do it for everyone.
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Old 08-29-2013, 06:56 AM   #245
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And Sam, as you may have noticed, I agree with every point you've made including calling Phoebus out for the unnecessary insults.
Thanks. Although I have a feeling Phoebus won't respond.
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Old 08-29-2013, 08:08 AM   #246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxiesmom
Almost everyone knows that a tip is considered part of the wages of anyone who waits tables.
This is not true. You believe this and therefore assume everyone else does as well.

DH looked it up last night. I believe it is Washington state where the servers are mandated to make minimum wage. They go beyond the federal wage law that says they only get $2.15 per hour.

Also I will point out again that we are a nation of immigrants and tourists. China has +1 billion people, 20% of the world population and those that have the funds either come here to visit or live. Tipping in restaurants there is not required. It is appreciated as what it should be, a gift, but they add a flat surcharge to the bill.

Like the gentleman many posts back sitting in Times Square talking about the place he was at adding a flat surcharge to bills after 8:30.

A significant portion of people view a tip by it's actual definition: a gift that is appreciated but not required. They believe that the servers are paid to be there and a tip is something extra for a job well done.

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Old 08-29-2013, 08:45 AM   #247
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxiesmom View Post
I disagree. Almost everyone knows that a tip is considered part of the wages of anyone who waits tables. Yet some choose to ignore that fact, and still want to consider it an extra bonus. Maybe it is what it should be, but that fact is it is not. And until the restaurant business is overhauled and tips are just that, extra bonuses, if you don't leave a tip you are stiffing the person who brings you your food and drink.

We all know how the system works. You (in general) are not changing it by shorting someone part of their pay, because you don't like it. You are just being a jerk
.
I don't necessarily go along with the idea that we as customers have tacitly agreed to directly pay some of the wages of a waiter simply by coming into the restaurant. But even if I did, please remember that several pages back we were talking about tipping in relation to TERRIBLE service which I'm sure all of us have received from time to time. Reducing or withholding a tip when I have been treated poorly does not make me a jerk. I think the PP that compared tips to a bonus structure is onto something; in many jobs including mine, any bonus or merit pay must have be EARNED in the eyes of the one who's paying it (in this case the customer).
Quote:
Originally Posted by sam_gordon View Post

So, yes, while a tip is considered part of the wage/expected, going by the definition, it IS a gift, or something not required. So let all restaurants automatically add 18% to the bill, call it a "service charge" and be done. If someone wants to give extra on top of that, they're allowed to. But they shouldn't be chased down if they don't, or have their order sabotaged.

It's already done for "parties of 8 or more", so do it for everyone.
Absolutely, I would find that far more palatable however I don't imagine it would change the attitude of many that would still consider me a cheap, stingy jerk when I don't add extra. On cruises for example I love how most of them now include a daily auto-gratuity (although it should more aptly be called a service charge) to my account. It's part of the price of the trip and I don't give it a second thought. Almost never add extra and don't lose a minute of sleep about it.
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Old 08-29-2013, 12:26 PM   #248
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Srbright View Post

This is not true. You believe this and therefore assume everyone else does as well.

DH looked it up last night. I believe it is Washington state where the servers are mandated to make minimum wage. They go beyond the federal wage law that says they only get $2.15 per hour.

Also I will point out again that we are a nation of immigrants and tourists. China has +1 billion people, 20% of the world population and those that have the funds either come here to visit or live. Tipping in restaurants there is not required. It is appreciated as what it should be, a gift, but they add a flat surcharge to the bill.

Like the gentleman many posts back sitting in Times Square talking about the place he was at adding a flat surcharge to bills after 8:30.

A significant portion of people view a tip by it's actual definition: a gift that is appreciated but not required. They believe that the servers are paid to be there and a tip is something extra for a job well done.

Stacy
When in Spain. If you travel (general you) then you should understand the basic societal mores. When we visit other societies you can be sure we know what is considered appropriate and polite.
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Old 08-29-2013, 03:25 PM   #249
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Granny square

When in Spain. If you travel (general you) then you should understand the basic societal mores. When we visit other societies you can be sure we know what is considered appropriate and polite.
Which I agree with.....except we all seem to be living in this country and WE can't all agree on the accepted practice. Only about 45% of the people (based on survey data, trying to find the link) tip housekeeping. If you ask 20 people (as proven by this thread) what is standard for a tip at a restaurant then you get 10 different answers.

A more is a standard community custom and we seem to be proving out that there is no standard for tipping in this country.

Stacy
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Old 08-29-2013, 03:42 PM   #250
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Lol, the people who take standard out are the ones who choose to muddy the waters. You can put the info out there but people will still choose to cheap out or complain about the system.
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Old 08-29-2013, 06:39 PM   #251
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Srbright View Post
This is not true. You believe this and therefore assume everyone else does as well.

DH looked it up last night. I believe it is Washington state where the servers are mandated to make minimum wage. They go beyond the federal wage law that says they only get $2.15 per hour.

Also I will point out again that we are a nation of immigrants and tourists. China has +1 billion people, 20% of the world population and those that have the funds either come here to visit or live. Tipping in restaurants there is not required. It is appreciated as what it should be, a gift, but they add a flat surcharge to the bill.

Like the gentleman many posts back sitting in Times Square talking about the place he was at adding a flat surcharge to bills after 8:30.

A significant portion of people view a tip by it's actual definition: a gift that is appreciated but not required. They believe that the servers are paid to be there and a tip is something extra for a job well done.

Stacy
CA also requires wait staff to be paid at least minimum wage. This is one of the reasons that we do not feel obligated to tip if we get poor service. We do however speak with a manager if the experience has been bad enough to warrant no tip.
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Old 08-29-2013, 06:42 PM   #252
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Granny square
Lol, the people who take standard out are the ones who choose to muddy the waters. You can put the info out there but people will still choose to cheap out or complain about the system.
"Putting the info out there" does not = a societal more. The Amish put out there that electricity isn't good. That doesn't mean we are all ditching our smart phones.

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Old 10-01-2013, 07:23 AM   #253
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I found this thread as I am going to be visiting the US in a few months and find the whole system of tipping confusing.

Coming from a country where tipping is not customary I often feel embarrassed that I may not have tipped someone I should have or have I tipped enough.

It is something that I know puts people off visiting the US and hence spending money in the country.

I would much rather pay what a service is worth upfront knowing that the staff are getting paid a suitable wage than have to add extras on all the time.
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Old 10-01-2013, 08:25 AM   #254
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at the idea that the practice of tipping is hurting U.S. tourism.

anyway, I appreciate the people who say just add a service charge. It seems like a fair way to make sure servers don't get stiffed while patrons have a clearer idea of what they're really expected to pay. But as someone living in a country that has such an arrangement, I can tell you, service is very different under those terms. Judging by how people reacted to the service when the DDP included gratuity, I think it's fair to say most posters here would not be pleased.
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Old 10-01-2013, 08:43 AM   #255
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Just came back from a cruise and have to chime in here. I just returned from a cruise on Norwegian. NCL adds a "Service Charge" to your room per person every day. They don't call it a tip. This "service charge" gets divided up between all those in positions that are customarily tipped positions. I will tell you that I have never had worse service on a cruise line. It was atrocious. I stopped eating in the main dining room after 2 visits. My theory is that these servers already know what they are going to make. Can you go and adjust the "service charge"? Yes, but it is a vastly different experience from the other cruises I've been on.
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