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Old 06-26-2013, 11:18 AM   #121
Heidict
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Originally Posted by Robbi View Post
So if you have a child and it's taken from you, you'd let her/him go and not fight to get them back home with you?

My husband and I have 2 bio sons and an adopted daughter. I'm here to tell you that I would fight until the end of my life to get each of our children back home. The fact that I did not give birth to our daughter means nothing in terms of how much we love her and we would move heaven and earth for her the same way we would for our sons. There is no difference between a birth parent and an adopted parent when it comes to loving their children.

Veronica's father did zero to help Veronica's birth mother and said he would do nothing to help support she and his baby.

If any of you or if you have a daughter and the dad said he wouldn't help financially, what would you think of him?
If, while you were in the process of adopting your daughter, you saw that things were not on the up and up, would you be okay with that, knowing that it would work in your favor?

Would you turn a blind eye to the things that were done in this case in order to keep her?

If things had been done correctly and honestly from the beginning it may very well have never gotten to this point.

If at 4 months the father appeared and said that he did not want to sign away his rights and wanted custody and would fight for her, would you have continued to fight or relinquished her to her father?

As it stands now, she has been with her father for nearly 2 years. She would, more then likely, not remember her adopted parents. They would be no more then strangers to her. She is in a happy and loving home. So, you would feel comfortable taking her away from her father and all the of the family members that she loves? You don't think that would be traumatizing to a 4 or 5 year old? What do you think one of your children would go through if someone showed up at your house one day and just take them away from you when they were that age? You think that is in the best interest of the child?
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Old 06-26-2013, 11:18 AM   #122
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That wasn't a trick. It was a mistake. He tried to fix things as soon as he knew and when his daughter was only 4 months old. At that point, especially in light of the legal errors in his notification, he should have been able to get his daughter back.
He didn't support the birth mother or the infant from pregnancy to 4 months of age. He made no attempt to contact her.

Nowhere, in any state, if he wasn't a teensy bit Indian, would he have had the ability to do what he did. With no ICWA, he falls under the same laws as anyone else, and he did not follow guidelines to be considered a parent.
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Old 06-26-2013, 11:22 AM   #123
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Thanks, I read the decision.

It actually says that Dusten did not act like a father and abandoned her daughter so even though legally if he HAD taken care of her, he would have been covered under ICWA. Instead, he's not.

And the SC Supreme Court has already found that the Capobianco's are the parents who SHOULD have custody but they're hands were tied by ICWA. The SCOTUS has pushed the ruling back to the SC SC and told them to try again not using ICWA in their decision.

What do you think that means?
I think it means it goes back to the SC SC. Did I win a prize?
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Old 06-26-2013, 11:23 AM   #124
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I know, it was such a tough name also! She really thinks that people are stupid enough to believe it was an honest mistake?
Dusten even spelled his name incorrectly on occasion . The Capobianco's lawyer produced checks signed by Dusten that showed he misspelled his own name!
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Old 06-26-2013, 11:25 AM   #125
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Dusten even spelled his name incorrectly on occasion . The Capobianco's lawyer produced checks signed by Dusten that showed he misspelled his own name!
I've never seen anyone with that spelling before. So, I'd misspell it.
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Old 06-26-2013, 11:27 AM   #126
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I've never seen anyone with that spelling before. So, I'd misspell it.
I think she'd seen him before though.

Even if the baby's birth mother didn't know exactly how to spell his name, knowing his name, and how it was pronounced, and his employer, they should have been able to find him. It doesn't appear that they tried very hard.
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Old 06-26-2013, 11:30 AM   #127
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Thought I might add...(though the conspiracy theory folks will dismiss it)..

My DH is a first generation American. His parents were born in Scotland and his middle name is different. When I have to fill out travel info, I always have to LOOK to see if it starts with McK or MacK because I don't remember.

I have something to look at.

We've been married for many years and I just don't write it that much.
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Old 06-26-2013, 11:32 AM   #128
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Thought I might add...(though the conspiracy theory folks will dismiss it)..

My DH is a first generation American. His parents were born in Scotland and his middle name is different. When I have to fill out travel info, I always have to LOOK to see if it starts with McK or MacK because I don't remember.

I have something to look at.

We've been married for many years and I just don't write it that much.
And if you were filling out paperwork that would change your kids' lives forever, would you bother to look?
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Old 06-26-2013, 11:33 AM   #129
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They play with this little girls life like it's a game. She is getting bounced around every couple of years from one family to the next. I can't imagine what she must be going through. If she is taken away from her REAL father she will be forced to live with strangers.

Sure they love her and want her back, but she doesn't remember them. She will have no idea who they are. All she will know is that she will never see her father again. Kidnapped and forced to live with strangers. Yeah, I'm sure she will grow up loving these two. None of that matters to them. They want a child and will do so at any costs. It's about possession, not about love or what is best for her. They are blinded to all of that with this all consuming passion to have a child.

It really doesn't surprise me that this is what would come out of SCOTUS. I have agreed with much of what has come out of them in a long time.
Agree with everything you said. Now I wonder, from a legal standpoint, if the court can just let her remain where she is .. she's already been removed from one home and has settled in with her bio dad, who wants her and she has bonded with, ... under the 'best interests of the child'? That's what should happen now.
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Old 06-26-2013, 11:34 AM   #130
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That wasn't a trick. It was a mistake. He tried to fix things as soon as he knew and when his daughter was only 4 months old. At that point, especially in light of the legal errors in his notification, he should have been able to get his daughter back.
So how long should we give birth parents to change their minds? I'm not being snarky, because this is what it comes down to. When we adopted in 2005, my state, Nebraska, and Florida were the only 2 states that had a "no regrets" law, once the bio parents signed, there is no going back. Some states give 30 days, some a whole year. This post says "only 4 months". And you can argue that he wasn't notified properly, but he knew he had a child during that whole time. How long should the baby and the potential adoptive parents be in limbo? I'm really not being snarky, all the sates have different laws on this. But 4 months is a long time when you are the adoptive parent. We had to wait 30 days and it was the longest 30 days of our lives!
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Old 06-26-2013, 11:40 AM   #131
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So how long should we give birth parents to change their minds? I'm not being snarky, because this is what it comes down to. When we adopted in 2005, my state, Nebraska, and Florida were the only 2 states that had a "no regrets" law, once the bio parents signed, there is no going back. Some states give 30 days, some a whole year. This post says "only 4 months". And you can argue that he wasn't notified properly, but he knew he had a child during that whole time. How long should the baby and the potential adoptive parents be in limbo? I'm really not being snarky, all the sates have different laws on this. But 4 months is a long time when you are the adoptive parent. We had to wait 30 days and it was the longest 30 days of our lives!
He didn't wait 4 months after he signed. He asked for the form back immediately after he signed. The adoptive parents waited 4 months to obtain his signature, that's very different.

I'm an adoptive parent. I waited a very long time to finalize because of issues with birth father notification, and yes it was very very anxiety producing. I have a good friend who recently had an adoption fall through at 29 days. However, the alternative, that we have a situation where someone can lose their rights permanently because they are pressured to make an immediate decision during a huge, stressful transition, is worse. I think 30 days is reasonable, but it's 30 days from the point when the paperwork is signed.

The prospective adoptive family in this case had choices. They could have looked for a situation where both parents were available to sign. They could have looked harder for the birth father. They could have chosen to use an agency that had foster care for children while parental rights are terminated.
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Old 06-26-2013, 11:53 AM   #132
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He didn't wait 4 months after he signed. He asked for the form back immediately after he signed. The adoptive parents waited 4 months to obtain his signature, that's very different.

I'm an adoptive parent. I waited a very long time to finalize because of issues with birth father notification, and yes it was very very anxiety producing. I have a good friend who recently had an adoption fall through at 29 days. However, the alternative, that we have a situation where someone can lose their rights permanently because they are pressured to make an immediate decision during a huge, stressful transition, is worse. I think 30 days is reasonable, but it's 30 days from the point when the paperwork is signed.

The prospective adoptive family in this case had choices. They could have looked for a situation where both parents were available to sign. They could have looked harder for the birth father. They could have chosen to use an agency that had foster care for children while parental rights are terminated.
The agency representing the parents contacted him after 4 months. It's different to say it was the parents. They put their trust in the agency to do the right thing.
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Old 06-26-2013, 12:46 PM   #133
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So how long should we give birth parents to change their minds? I'm not being snarky, because this is what it comes down to. When we adopted in 2005, my state, Nebraska, and Florida were the only 2 states that had a "no regrets" law, once the bio parents signed, there is no going back. Some states give 30 days, some a whole year. This post says "only 4 months". And you can argue that he wasn't notified properly, but he knew he had a child during that whole time. How long should the baby and the potential adoptive parents be in limbo? I'm really not being snarky, all the sates have different laws on this. But 4 months is a long time when you are the adoptive parent. We had to wait 30 days and it was the longest 30 days of our lives!
I'm an adoptive parent as well. Every adoptive parent I have ever met knows exceedingly well the exact legal status of their child at any time. We adopted internationally, and our adoption wasn't finalized for 7 months after we were home. I knew full well that during those 7 months, if something happened, my child could be taken from me. It's not until the adoption is finalized that you are truly that child's parent. Until it's finalized, you are their guardian. Period. My understanding is that this adoption was never finalized.

One of my favorite adoption quotes is "a child born to another woman calls me mommy. The magnitude of that tragedy and the depth of that privilige are not lost on my" - Jody Landers
I can't imagine if the adoptive parents do get Veronica how they will possibly explain their action to her. I felt it was 100% my responsibility to ensure that my son's adoption was legal and ethical, and that his birth parents - BOTH of them - were 100% commited to the adoption. I can't imagine having to tell my child that his biological father wanted him - fought all the way to the supreme court - and yet we adopted him anyway.
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Old 06-26-2013, 12:55 PM   #134
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If at 4 months the father appeared and said that he did not want to sign away his rights and wanted custody and would fight for her, would you have continued to fight or relinquished her to her father?
I would've continued to fight. Without this misapplied law that would be my child. I wouldn't just give her to some single guy who is a stranger to her both literally and legally. This isn't like the case in Utah where a married father(who automatically has the same custody rights as the mother unless proven unfit) was told by his wife that his daughter died before being put up for adoption. Men can't just go around having sex, ignorant of the laws, and then pop up whenever they wish and demand full parental rights. That's been done before, and it only hurt children, bio mothers, and adoptive parents who only want stability for the child.
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Old 06-26-2013, 01:05 PM   #135
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He didn't support the birth mother or the infant from pregnancy to 4 months of age. He made no attempt to contact her.

Nowhere, in any state, if he wasn't a teensy bit Indian, would he have had the ability to do what he did. With no ICWA, he falls under the same laws as anyone else, and he did not follow guidelines to be considered a parent.
I agree.
This is, quite simply, 'pulling the race card'.
That is NEVER okay.

However, since he has had custody of his own biological child for all of this time. It just isn't simple. At some point, shouldn't the well being of the child be the most important consideration... instead of semantics, legal wrangling, etc.....

This whole thing is sad.

I don't know if there are any acceptable answers.
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