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Old 06-19-2013, 06:22 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by goofyintoronto View Post
Yes. Here too!
I am in Ontario too of the six jk's I research fort twins all had upwards of thirty kids. The numbers for the cap must be arrived at by dividing the children between the teacher and ECE person. My friends with kids in kindergarten say the rooms are chaotic.
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Old 06-19-2013, 06:24 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by Mickey'snewestfan View Post

Maybe this is true for some parents, but there are others of us who work full time to afford luxuries like food, shelter, and health care.

When my son was little and I was a single mom, we moved back in with my mom for a few years. He was having major medical issues, and managing rent on top of medical expenses was really hard. So often I would go to the park or somewhere else and meet SAHM's. When they told me they stayed home I'd say "That's great" and they'd launch into how I could do it too. I just needed to look at my budget more carefully and figure out which luxuries to cut.

Now, generally these moms were living in expensive single family homes, while I couldn't afford a 1 bedroom apartment. They often drove to the park in a shiny late model SUV, while I walked because I didn't have a car. They wore far more expensive clothes than I did, but somehow they were convinced that I was hiding some magical source of income and health insurance that I was simply too dumb to notice.

I know some parents work out of necessity. I was raised by a single mom. Sure she could have stayed home and gone on welfare, but instead she cleaned houses while working on a computer degree. She taught us the value of a strong work ethic. But in my experience, the parents that protest so much that they would love to be able to afford the luxury of a stay-at-home parent are a) 2-income families and b) could afford it of they gave up a few luxuries. My husband's boss says he can't afford his wife to stay home, yet drives a new Lexus. My friend who used to complain until she lost her job, they went to Europe every summer.

A year or so ago a public figure made the statement that his family "couldn't afford the luxury" of a SAH parent, when public records showed a combine household income of over $400,000! I was deeply offended.

We only had one car until 2011, and when we finally did buy a second car it was a used 06; we've only been on one vacation in the past 6 years that we paid for ourselves. My mom has taken us on a couple f vacations because, although she couldn't do it, she also highly regards the value of a SAH parent and knows what we give up to be able to do it. I know one SAHM family who gets by with 3 kids and a husband making significantly less than mine!
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Old 06-19-2013, 06:33 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by quandrea View Post
This article is sad. I think that so much of what ails society can be traced to two parent working families. I know I am starting something up but I believe it. Children need time--the time of one parent home. I am not naive enough to think we will ever go back to that but kids identify with peers more than parents now because there is little attachment parenting..
Just because I stay home, doesn't mean I'm into attachment parenting. Because I'm not! My mom was June Cleaver (not really...). SAHM, perfect home, drink waiting for my dad when he got home from work (cocktail hour so we could hear about his day before dinner), family dinner every night... Actually, I like the definition of housewife better - my job is to care for children AND clean the house AND shop AND cook AND pay bills AND make appointments AND laundry.......... My focus is not 100% on my kids.

That said, she was there if I needed help, but she wasn't there to be a playmate - that's what neighborhood kids and siblings are for! I do remember the one bike ride my parents took us on, and the one game night we had... I have lovely memories of playgrounds, beaches, etc., but I didn't have my parents with me.

Kids identify with parents until around puberty, and that's when it's perfectly normal for them to be more influenced by their peers. Heck, I learned about this when I was still in college taking sociology.

I'm a SAHM by choice - I know many WOHM's who work because they want to - and that's fine! I see little difference between the kids from both sets of moms.
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Old 06-19-2013, 06:50 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by Conservative Hippie View Post

I know some parents work out of necessity. I was raised by a single mom. Sure she could have stayed home and gone on welfare, but instead she cleaned houses while working on a computer degree. She taught us the value of a strong work ethic. But in my experience, the parents that protest so much that they would love to be able to afford the luxury of a stay-at-home parent are a) 2-income families and b) could afford it of they gave up a few luxuries. My husband's boss says he can't afford his wife to stay home, yet drives a new Lexus. My friend who used to complain until she lost her job, they went to Europe every summer.

A year or so ago a public figure made the statement that his family "couldn't afford the luxury" of a SAH parent, when public records showed a combine household income of over $400,000! I was deeply offended.

We only had one car until 2011, and when we finally did buy a second car it was a used 06; we've only been on one vacation in the past 6 years that we paid for ourselves. My mom has taken us on a couple f vacations because, although she couldn't do it, she also highly regards the value of a SAH parent and knows what we give up to be able to do it. I know one SAHM family who gets by with 3 kids and a husband making significantly less than mine!
But so what? Why are you offended by the choices other people make?
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Old 06-19-2013, 07:43 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by jrmasm View Post

But so what? Why are you offended by the choices other people make?
Not that poster, but it seemed she was complaining about people complaining. Don't say you can't afford something when it is more a case of priorities.

But I could be wrong.
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Old 06-19-2013, 07:48 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by mjkacmom View Post
Just because I stay home, doesn't mean I'm into attachment parenting. Because I'm not! My mom was June Cleaver (not really...). SAHM, perfect home, drink waiting for my dad when he got home from work (cocktail hour so we could hear about his day before dinner), family dinner every night... Actually, I like the definition of housewife better - my job is to care for children AND clean the house AND shop AND cook AND pay bills AND make appointments AND laundry.......... My focus is not 100% on my kids.

That said, she was there if I needed help, but she wasn't there to be a playmate - that's what neighborhood kids and siblings are for! I do remember the one bike ride my parents took us on, and the one game night we had... I have lovely memories of playgrounds, beaches, etc., but I didn't have my parents with me.

Kids identify with parents until around puberty, and that's when it's perfectly normal for them to be more influenced by their peers. Heck, I learned about this when I was still in college taking sociology.

I'm a SAHM by choice - I know many WOHM's who work because they want to - and that's fine! I see little difference between the kids from both sets of moms.
Perhaps I shouldn't have used the term attachment parenting because I didn't mean it in the current, pop culture definition. I agree completely with the term housewife. I operate like that. I am not my kids' playmate. But you mention that if you needed your mom she was there. That 'presence' is what I am referring to. My mom stayed home too and my brother said always knowing she was able to help if needed at any time was so great and worth so much. If something goes awry, I can be there without having to juggle a thousand things. That is what creates attachment. I know I won't be able to change societal attitudes on some discussion board, but the reality is that children are not identifying with their parents the way they need to. Studies show that the best thing for a child under the age of six is time with a loving adult. More time with peers is not necessarily better. I will bow out now. We are not changing the world tonight.
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Old 06-19-2013, 07:53 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by jrmasm View Post
But so what? Why are you offended by the choices other people make?
I was wondering exactly that myself.

This women wrote a candid article about her life and her regret of some choices she made. It should be read as a memoir of her life, not used as a spring board to push your SAHM vs working mom agenda (whichever side it is).

Whenever I hear "men are the ones holding women back" nonsense I think of threads like this and how so many of you love to tear other women apart because choices they made for their family are different than your own. I have no desire to ever be a stay at home dad, none. On the other hand if some other guy says that is what he wants to be I say good for him. I also highly suspect I wouldn't hear a lecture from him about how I'm doing a disservice to my children.

This subject, the breastfeeding vs formula threads, and the spanking vs not spanking threads really just show how repugnant so many people are and it is more often than not mothers, not fathers.
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Old 06-19-2013, 08:07 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by mrsklamc View Post
It seems MOST of the things the woman in the article is complaining about don't really have to do with her decision to be a SAHM. She got 'sucked' into volunteer work....um, if you didn't have enough of a spine to say 'no' when you didn't want to do something, that has nothing to do with being a SAHM. There is no law against keeping up on technology w/o being paid for it. Her world narrowed...she helicopter parented....those were all choices she could have made differently, while still being a SAHM.
Exactly. It is a choice to lose yourself, to get sucked into volunteering you don't want to be doing, to stop keeping up with things you enjoy. None of that is synonymous with being a SAHM and most of the people who think it is are those who have never stayed home for longer than a maternity leave or two.

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I know that if I decided to stay home, we would have to sacrifice. And one of the most important things we would have had to sacrifice is my DH's time at home, because he would have had to work extremely long hours to support us. It wasn't fair to expect him to miss out on all his time with the kids so that I could spend all my time with them.
That's one of those things that makes it such an individual decision. For us, overtime is just the nature of DH's field - he works the same crazy hours whether I'm working or not. The household just runs more smoothly and more peacefully if I'm home to balance that out.
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Old 06-19-2013, 08:20 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by Granny square View Post

Not that poster, but it seemed she was complaining about people complaining. Don't say you can't afford something when it is more a case of priorities.

But I could be wrong.
What's wrong with wishing for more? Like I wish I could stay home AND still live the lifestyle I live?
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Old 06-19-2013, 08:23 PM   #85
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Sorry. I will repost.

Last edited by quandrea; 06-19-2013 at 08:29 PM.
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Old 06-19-2013, 08:24 PM   #86
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I have a few questions about SAHM. I think that is a personal choice and to each their own.

1) Do most SAHM never return to the workforce?
2) If they do return, what are the children's typical age when they do return?


Just curious above all else.
I'm not sure there is a "typical" on that count because it depends on so many other things - what line of work the SAHM was in, if she intends to go back to a career or just a job, how old she was when she had kids, if they decide to homeschool, etc. It seems like for a lot of women, going back to work happens when the youngest child starts full-day school and the cost of daycare drops dramatically.

I don't ever plan to return to the workforce. I enjoy the freedom of not being tied to someone else's schedule and while I do plan to expand my freelance business when the last of my kids starts school full time, I don't ever plan to punch a clock again.

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I love my children to pieces, but I far prefer the school age to baby stages.
I do too. Being a SAHM to little kids is work; being home for the older kids is fun. My mom-friends, who mostly have oldest kids the same age as my youngest (4), think I'm crazy when I say I'll take teens over toddlers any day. But that's how I feel. Kids are much more enjoyable when they're little people with interests and conversational skills, even though their problems and needs get harder and more complex.
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Old 06-19-2013, 08:25 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by jrmasm View Post
What's wrong with wishing for more? Like I wish I could stay home AND still live the lifestyle I live?
I don't think wishing for more and claiming you can't afford something when really you just choose not to prioritize that way are the same thing.

I think her point was just that the guy was kind of 'whining' that he couldn't afford for his wife to stay home on a 400k salary. He can afford it, he just chooses not to...or more likely, with a politician, he doesn't even want it, he's just trying to be relate-able.
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Old 06-19-2013, 08:26 PM   #88
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A contrasting view

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/ar...g-mothers.html
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Old 06-19-2013, 08:28 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by Social Worker Sue View Post


This woman is an author. A story teller. She was still able to make a living after her stint as a SAHM.

I believe much of what she wrote was for shock value. The whole "I let down those who went before me" because I stayed at home with my three children is laughable. Who thinks that way?

Her "world narrowed" because she only hung around SAHMs in the suburbs? Whose fault was that?

And to say "My kids think I did nothing" because "they saw me cooking, cleaning, driving, volunteering and even writing, but they know what a "job" looks like"??? So writing (and I imagine she gets paid for these stories she writes) isn't a job to your children? Well then you raised a bunch of unappreciative children. Nothing more can be said about that.
People do think that way, though! Those were comments I got often when I announced I was leaving my career when pregnant with my second child - "I thought you were a feminist/believed in equality for women!" and "Why would you waste your education?"

I totally agree about the unappreciative kids part, though. If being a SAHM, volunteer, and writer isn't enough to qualify as "doing something", well, that's just sad. It sounds like the kids are being raised to think that a "job" has to mean long hours and high stress and anything less than a type-A pace is leisure.
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Old 06-19-2013, 08:29 PM   #90
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I know many women, mothers, who have worked full-time by choice since the first baby was born. Some work because they are a primary bread winner and other work because they like to work and like having the extra money. Two of my sisters went back to work as soon as the doctor would let them.

I never wanted to do that. For me, staying home with the kids WAS my job. Not that I never worked. I did pick up shifts at the hospital a few times a month, on the night shift so the kids didn't have to go to daycare. There were times when my kids *did* go to daycare, but it was limited. I really enjoyed taking care of my kids and the house. DH and I discovered early on that our household just works better when there is a parent home. DH worked full time until he became disabled. At that point HE became the SAHP and I went to work full-time.

My kids are grown now and I dont' regret one minute of my time at home. Sure, I do not have any retirement other than an IRA and my 401k, and Soc Security. I will never get a gold watch for my 30 years of loyalty to a corporation. But it has been a sacrifice worth making, IMO.

My hat's off to the woman who admits OUT LOUD that she regrets staying at home. It's not a popular stand but it's authentic to this particular woman.
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