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Old 06-13-2013, 09:22 AM   #31
ThePicketts
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Originally Posted by the_bUg
Hrmm... I've been thinking about this a little more, and it's kind of grating on me. I'm only using the $190, 75 min hot stones treatment as my point of reference since it's the only service I've had so far.

Now, at $190 for a 75 minute treatment that works out to 152$ per hour... Now, I'm not sure what Senses pays their employees, but I would imagine out of that 152$ they could muster up $25.00 in wages. Now, let's assume an 18% tip (I tipped higher last cruise, but this is just for arguments sake), which works out to $34.20.

I was also hard sold on a freaking $80.00 bottle of massage oil (which is nice, I've used it a couple times, but...). Let's assume they make a %10 sales commission on a product with that much markup. This would certainly be a couple more dollars. So for my first treatment, using my fuzzy math with a lot of assumptions built in to it, I can guess that my masseur may have taken home upwards of $65.00 for that treatment in total.

This is certainly more money than I can make in an hour at my current job and I can afford yearly cruises and several hundred dollar spa services...

Now, I realize this is not just a money for time equation, and the value of an experience is subjective. It is because of this that I am willing to pay such a high amount for a 75 minute experience. It is also because of this that tipping should be individual and not automatic. If I choose to tip, and tip well, it's my choice. Period.

I am certainly throwing enough money at SENSES SPA and by proxy their employees. Again, if they cannot pay their employees an adequate hourly wage out of the large sums of money I've given them for these experiences, this is NOT my problem nor should I be expected to supplement their employee's income.

I will still tip, based on my subjective valuation, which in both my previous cases, again, was over and above this recommended 18%, once significantly over. However I resent the fact that I cannot show GENUINE appreciation for the service as tipping is now "required".

Choosing to show appreciation through monetary compensation should be an act of volition. Maybe I'm just crazy because I'm Canadian, but this is an important distinction to me.

... For my convenience, my #$&.
I was thinking the exact same thing
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Old 06-13-2013, 09:31 AM   #32
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Hrmm... I've been thinking about this a little more, and it's kind of grating on me. I'm only using the $190, 75 min hot stones treatment as my point of reference since it's the only service I've had so far.

Now, at $190 for a 75 minute treatment that works out to 152$ per hour... Now, I'm not sure what Senses pays their employees, but I would imagine out of that 152$ they could muster up $25.00 in wages. Now, let's assume an 18% tip (I tipped higher last cruise, but this is just for arguments sake), which works out to $34.20.

I was also hard sold on a freaking $80.00 bottle of massage oil (which is nice, I've used it a couple times, but...). Let's assume they make a %10 sales commission on a product with that much markup. This would certainly be a couple more dollars. So for my first treatment, using my fuzzy math with a lot of assumptions built in to it, I can guess that my masseur may have taken home upwards of $65.00 for that treatment in total.

This is certainly more money than I can make in an hour at my current job and I can afford yearly cruises and several hundred dollar spa services...

Now, I realize this is not just a money for time equation, and the value of an experience is subjective. It is because of this that I am willing to pay such a high amount for a 75 minute experience. It is also because of this that tipping should be individual and not automatic. If I choose to tip, and tip well, it's my choice. Period.

I am certainly throwing enough money at SENSES SPA and by proxy their employees. Again, if they cannot pay their employees an adequate hourly wage out of the large sums of money I've given them for these experiences, this is NOT my problem nor should I be expected to supplement their employee's income.

I will still tip, based on my subjective valuation, which in both my previous cases, again, was over and above this recommended 18%, once significantly over. However I resent the fact that I cannot show GENUINE appreciation for the service as tipping is now "required".

Choosing to show appreciation through monetary compensation should be an act of volition. Maybe I'm just crazy because I'm Canadian, but this is an important distinction to me.

... For my convenience, my #$&.
Well when you break it down like that the ship spa treatments don't seem worth it at all. I've done a few but they were all discounted, booked onboard last minute specials. Still expensive though. I certainly would never book anything ahead of time. Way too much.

For those discounted services I was told to tip based on the full price of the device and not the price I paid. I wonder if the same gratuity is gong to be added to the onboard discounted specials and if the 18% will be on the full or discounted price?
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Old 06-13-2013, 10:26 AM   #33
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Hrmm... I've been thinking about this a little more, and it's kind of grating on me. I'm only using the $190, 75 min hot stones treatment as my point of reference since it's the only service I've had so far.

Now, at $190 for a 75 minute treatment that works out to 152$ per hour... Now, I'm not sure what Senses pays their employees, but I would imagine out of that 152$ they could muster up $25.00 in wages. Now, let's assume an 18% tip (I tipped higher last cruise, but this is just for arguments sake), which works out to $34.20.

I was also hard sold on a freaking $80.00 bottle of massage oil (which is nice, I've used it a couple times, but...). Let's assume they make a %10 sales commission on a product with that much markup. This would certainly be a couple more dollars. So for my first treatment, using my fuzzy math with a lot of assumptions built in to it, I can guess that my masseur may have taken home upwards of $65.00 for that treatment in total.

This is certainly more money than I can make in an hour at my current job and I can afford yearly cruises and several hundred dollar spa services...

Now, I realize this is not just a money for time equation, and the value of an experience is subjective. It is because of this that I am willing to pay such a high amount for a 75 minute experience. It is also because of this that tipping should be individual and not automatic. If I choose to tip, and tip well, it's my choice. Period.

I am certainly throwing enough money at SENSES SPA and by proxy their employees. Again, if they cannot pay their employees an adequate hourly wage out of the large sums of money I've given them for these experiences, this is NOT my problem nor should I be expected to supplement their employee's income.

I will still tip, based on my subjective valuation, which in both my previous cases, again, was over and above this recommended 18%, once significantly over. However I resent the fact that I cannot show GENUINE appreciation for the service as tipping is now "required".

Choosing to show appreciation through monetary compensation should be an act of volition. Maybe I'm just crazy because I'm Canadian, but this is an important distinction to me.

... For my convenience, my #$&.
Ok....so like it or not, it is a service that is supposed to be tipped. That is essentially how most of these people get paid. People who think it costs so much in the first place compared to here or there so they don't tip (IMO) are the reason for this policy change. Is it more expensive than at home, heck yes, so is a pop at the airport or the sweatshirts in the gift shop at Disney. Vacation destinations rip us off....no one is REALLY surprised by this. It's not new news. If you don't like the cost of the procedure then don't get the procedure done. But you should tip if you have it done! I exprience auto gratuity when I eat out with a large group of people. I pay it and never give it a second thought. If I really like their service I tip more. Maybe Disney should just call it a surcharge and people wouldn't get so bent out of shape. But then people would complain that they don't call it a tip and they feel as though they need to tip something!
I do hope/expect it will lessen the hard sell. I seriously doubt most people LIKE or ENJOY pushing a sales pitch at people they know don't want to hear them (I work in sales....but maybe I am different than most people). When they know they are guaranteed to get paid via tip, perhaps they won't feel the need to push products. If I am wrong, then I will no longer use the spa services. I HATE the hard sell and spend half of the time in the service steeling myself for it. I, on the other hand, always tip, and this policy change will not affect me at all.....
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Old 06-13-2013, 10:44 AM   #34
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Maybe someone could merge the two threads about this?
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Old 06-13-2013, 10:45 AM   #35
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Doesn't affect me at all. I tip, but I don't like being told I HAVE to tip

It also offends me that I'm being MADE to tip because (possibly) others don't. Tired of carrying other people's loads.
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Old 06-13-2013, 10:59 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by tajz90
Doesn't affect me at all. I tip, but I don't like being told I HAVE to tip

It also offends me that I'm being MADE to tip because (possibly) others don't. Tired of carrying other people's loads.
Word.
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Old 06-13-2013, 11:12 AM   #37
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Word +1
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Old 06-13-2013, 11:28 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by emilyann415

Ok....so like it or not, it is a service that is supposed to be tipped. That is essentially how most of these people get paid. People who think it costs so much in the first place compared to here or there so they don't tip (IMO) are the reason for this policy change. Is it more expensive than at home, heck yes, so is a pop at the airport or the sweatshirts in the gift shop at Disney. Vacation destinations rip us off....no one is REALLY surprised by this. It's not new news. If you don't like the cost of the procedure then don't get the procedure done. But you should tip if you have it done! I exprience auto gratuity when I eat out with a large group of people. I pay it and never give it a second thought. If I really like their service I tip more. Maybe Disney should just call it a surcharge and people wouldn't get so bent out of shape. But then people would complain that they don't call it a tip and they feel as though they need to tip something!
I do hope/expect it will lessen the hard sell. I seriously doubt most people LIKE or ENJOY pushing a sales pitch at people they know don't want to hear them (I work in sales....but maybe I am different than most people). When they know they are guaranteed to get paid via tip, perhaps they won't feel the need to push products. If I am wrong, then I will no longer use the spa services. I HATE the hard sell and spend half of the time in the service steeling myself for it. I, on the other hand, always tip, and this policy change will not affect me at all.....
Maybe the point is the pre determined gratuity. Gratuity is to show gratitude. It is up to the professional to perform to the standard of an 18% tip.
Also, one poster also said that the industry standard is 15%. What is to prevent a 20% DCL determined gratuity? Or a 120% gratuity?
Is DCL doing this for the welfare of the worker or is this a corporate way to pay them LESS and subsidize it by a fee?
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Old 06-13-2013, 11:42 AM   #39
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Doesn't affect me at all. I tip, but I don't like being told I HAVE to tip

It also offends me that I'm being MADE to tip because (possibly) others don't. Tired of carrying other people's loads.
No one LIKES being told what to do I agree. But don't you run into pre paid gratuities in other areas? It happens all the time. I don't see why people are up in arms about it in a spa type setting but not in restaurants (usually when a group is larger than say 6 or so) or I've never seen these kind of threads posted about auto gratuities for bar bills? I guess I don't see why this particular service makes it so offensive.

Last edited by emilyann415; 06-13-2013 at 11:48 AM.
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Old 06-13-2013, 11:47 AM   #40
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Maybe the point is the pre determined gratuity. Gratuity is to show gratitude. It is up to the professional to perform to the standard of an 18% tip.
Also, one poster also said that the industry standard is 15%. What is to prevent a 20% DCL determined gratuity? Or a 120% gratuity?
Is DCL doing this for the welfare of the worker or is this a corporate way to pay them LESS and subsidize it by a fee?

Nothing is to stop them. They set their policy. They state it very plainly and you can choose to pay for the service along with auto gratuity or not. I don't see a real value in their pedicures so I get one before I leave from my regular person. That MY choice (they charge auto gratuity also). I have a friend that refuses to pay the cost of a massage in a spa on vacation so she always takes one extra day of vacation after she returns and gets a massage at home. It costs less and that is her choice as well.

They are already a very expensive cruise line. What's to stop them from doubling their cruise rates? Nothing. I look at the itinerary, the cost, and weigh the pros and cons and decide whether to cruise with them or whether to cruise with another line. My choice. No one can take that choice away from me.
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Old 06-13-2013, 11:58 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by emilyann415

Nothing is to stop them. They set their policy. They state it very plainly and you can choose to pay for the service along with auto gratuity or not. I don't see a real value in their pedicures so I get one before I leave from my regular person. That MY choice (they charge auto gratuity also). I have a friend that refuses to pay the cost of a massage in a spa on vacation so she always takes one extra day of vacation after she returns and gets a massage at home. It costs less and that is her choice as well.

They are already a very expensive cruise line. What's to stop them from doubling their cruise rates? Nothing. I look at the itinerary, the cost, and weigh the pros and cons and decide whether to cruise with them or whether to cruise with another line. My choice. No one can take that choice away from me.
Isn't gratuity all about choice too? Maybe the government should no longer call it taxation but prepaid gratuity for our liberty.
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Old 06-13-2013, 12:22 PM   #42
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Isn't gratuity all about choice too? Maybe the government should no longer call it taxation but prepaid gratuity for our liberty.
For your convenience, of course
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Old 06-13-2013, 12:44 PM   #43
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The reasoning that this will reduce the hard sell isn't really sound. If people were saying they were going to withhold a tip if they were given the hard sell caused this, it will if anything only make them MORE likely to do the hard sell as they're now going to get the tip regardless.
That is the point I was trying to make. Now they can keep pushing those products and it does not matter because their tip is guaranteed. Which is why I don't understand how some folks believe that this new policy may diminish the hard sales, if only it makes it worse, they have nothing to lose.

And some folks are saying they don't get what the big deal and that is fine not everyone is going to react in the same manner, but the big deal is I should not be forced to leave a tip. I always tip and have left more than 20% on occasions, but now that recognition is lost, it means nothing. Again a tip should not be forced and just because some businesses are already using this policy does not make it ok. If I ever get another treatment again, I will only leave the automatic 18%, which is what I feel many people are going to do anyway if they get treatments. We know Disney is still going to make money and people are going to keep using the spa, but now they have forced people to not want to leave more than the 18% which will only affect the employees.
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Old 06-13-2013, 01:33 PM   #44
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Anyone want to speculate that the spa techs get a reduction in their base base because of this?
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Old 06-13-2013, 01:34 PM   #45
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No one LIKES being told what to do I agree. But don't you run into pre paid gratuities in other areas? It happens all the time. I don't see why people are up in arms about it in a spa type setting but not in restaurants (usually when a group is larger than say 6 or so) or I've never seen these kind of threads posted about auto gratuities for bar bills? I guess I don't see why this particular service makes it so offensive.
No, I don't. I don't purchase drinks on the ship so I'm not getting the auto tip. It just irks me that possibly some people don't tip so I'm being punished. Still getting my massage, but because I'm being required to tip, the tip will be less than I normally tip. It's for my convince after all. Wouldn't want to hurt my fingers writing in the tip.

However, the auto gratuity for dining doesn't bother me at all.... We all HAVE to eat, but we all don't HAVE to use the spa.
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