The DIS Discussion Forums - DISboards.com Why are cash and point ratios different?
 Register Chat FAQ Tickers Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

 06-08-2013, 12:45 AM #1 dmunsil Disney Uber-Nerd     Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Kirkland, WA, former home of Costco! Posts: 802 Why are cash and point ratios different? While I was doing all the fiddling with NPV (Net Present Value) of DVC I noticed that the point values are nearly (but not exactly) proportional to square footage. A lot of the resorts seem to be based on a system of similar-sized boxes, where one box is a studio, two boxes is a one-bedroom, three boxes is a two-bedroom, and six boxes is a grand villa. In those resorts, the point cost for a one-bedroom is roughly 2X a studio, a two-bedroom is 3X a studio, and a grand villa is 6X a studio. Look at Boardwalk for an example of this. However, the cash prices don't follow this at all. For example, Boardwalk villas for cash during "regular" season, whatever that is, are \$417, \$586, \$945, and \$2039, respectively, which makes the ratios (with a studio as 1X) 1X, 1.4X, 2.3X, and 4.9X. The odd one out is the studio. If the studio was \$340, the ratios would be roughly similar to the points ratios. However, that would make a studio lower in price than a room at the Boardwalk Inn, which would be problematic. A standard view Boardwalk room is the same price \$417, which makes the studio kind of a steal for a cash customer. Right? It's slightly bigger, and has a microwave and refrigerator, and I assume access to the DVC laundry. Is there a downside to a DVC studio relative to a regular hotel room? I'm not sure what to make of this. My NPV calculator says that the one-bedroom has the lowest cash/point ratio and the studio has the highest. The two-bedroom is closer to the one-bedroom than the studio. Perhaps there's just waaaay more demand for simple hotel rooms and a studio is a very equivalent substitute, which drives up their price. There isn't as much call for a fancy multi-room apartment for cash customers, so Disney can't get double or triple the price. I have no conclusion about all this. It's just more food for thought.
 06-08-2013, 01:38 AM #2 cmwade77 DIS Veteran   Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 3,947 There may be a minimum cash price? Just a guess.
|
The DIS
Register to remove

Join Date: 1997
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 1,000,000
 06-08-2013, 07:43 AM #3 CarolMN DVC Co-Moderator   Join Date: Aug 1999 Posts: 24,561 Total point value is set when the resort opens - BWV opened in 1996. I suspect cash prices have changed a lot since then. There have been a small number of point re-allocations, but the changes were mostly between the cost of a weekday night vs a weekend night. DVC is limited by contract in what it can do to point values. The objective is to keep the resort at or near 100% occupancy, 365 days per year. Cash prices are set differently and IMO, related more to what other resorts charge (and seasonal crowd levels) than than any relationship to points or square footage. Note that point seasons are not the same as cash seasons. For me, the bottom line is that Disney tweaks the cash rates & discounts regularly to get the most revenue it can out of those rooms. I think you are trying to compare different kinds of apples. __________________ Best Wishes - BWV - Early Morning on May 2, 2008
 06-08-2013, 08:29 AM #4 lovesdumbo DIS Veteran   Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 12,984 I like the regular rooms at BWI better than the studios. The reg rooms sleep 5 with 2 real beds and a daybed. Reg rooms feel bigger because they don't have the kitchenette but they still have fridge & coffee maker. Reg rooms also have a desk.
06-08-2013, 08:56 AM   #5
DebbieB
DVC Member BWV 99
You have to compare apples to apples

Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: PA
Posts: 48,197

Quote:
 Originally Posted by dmunsil While I was doing all the fiddling with NPV (Net Present Value) of DVC I noticed that the point values are nearly (but not exactly) proportional to square footage. A lot of the resorts seem to be based on a system of similar-sized boxes, where one box is a studio, two boxes is a one-bedroom, three boxes is a two-bedroom, and six boxes is a grand villa. In those resorts, the point cost for a one-bedroom is roughly 2X a studio, a two-bedroom is 3X a studio, and a grand villa is 6X a studio. Look at Boardwalk for an example of this. However, the cash prices don't follow this at all. For example, Boardwalk villas for cash during "regular" season, whatever that is, are \$417, \$586, \$945, and \$2039, respectively, which makes the ratios (with a studio as 1X) 1X, 1.4X, 2.3X, and 4.9X. The odd one out is the studio. If the studio was \$340, the ratios would be roughly similar to the points ratios. However, that would make a studio lower in price than a room at the Boardwalk Inn, which would be problematic. A standard view Boardwalk room is the same price \$417, which makes the studio kind of a steal for a cash customer. Right? It's slightly bigger, and has a microwave and refrigerator, and I assume access to the DVC laundry. Is there a downside to a DVC studio relative to a regular hotel room? I'm not sure what to make of this. My NPV calculator says that the one-bedroom has the lowest cash/point ratio and the studio has the highest. The two-bedroom is closer to the one-bedroom than the studio. Perhaps there's just waaaay more demand for simple hotel rooms and a studio is a very equivalent substitute, which drives up their price. There isn't as much call for a fancy multi-room apartment for cash customers, so Disney can't get double or triple the price. I have no conclusion about all this. It's just more food for thought.
Studios are good for a couple with the queen bed and sleeper sofa but not for unrelated adults. I'd rather have the 2 queen beds and daybed if I was there with friends.
__________________

06-08-2013, 10:17 AM   #6
holula
DIS Veteran

Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 1,215

Quote:
 Originally Posted by DebbieB Studios are good for a couple with the queen bed and sleeper sofa but not for unrelated adults. I'd rather have the 2 queen beds and daybed if I was there with friends.
I've done a studio with a friend staying on my points. As I paid for the room with points she slept on the pull out bed and I got the regular bed. If we did it again I would book OKW with the two queen beds though.
__________________
Eurodisney/Disneyland Paris: 1997, 2004, 2005, 2008, 2011; Disneyland Resort: 2000, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008 (x2), 2011, 2012; Walt Disney World: 2011, 2012 (x2), 2013 (x4), 2014; Hong Kong Disneyland: 2012
Disney Wonder: 2012 Alaska, 2013 Bahamas; Disney Dream: 2012 Bahamas (x2); Disney Fantasy: 2013 Eastern, 2014 Western; Disney Magic: 2014 Bahamas (Wedding!), 2014 Southern Caribbean

Upcoming
Walt Disney World: 2014
Disney Magic: 2015 EB Transatlantic Disney Wonder: 2014 Xmas Western

06-08-2013, 12:11 PM   #7
dmunsil
Disney Uber-Nerd

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Kirkland, WA, former home of Costco!
Posts: 802

Quote:
 Originally Posted by CarolMN I think you are trying to compare different kinds of apples.
Hey, what's not fun about comparing different kinds of apples?

I agree, though there's a little part of me that says they "should" be similar, because I'm used to markets where a discrepancy like that wouldn't be so large and wouldn't persist. You wouldn't think I would need a reminder that the world of DVC and hotel rooms is not a perfectly efficient market.

I'm thinking to myself, "Go long hotel rooms and short DVC studios! Or wait...is it short hotel rooms and long DVC studios?"

Too much reading investing books, clearly.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by lovesdumbo I like the regular rooms at BWI better than the studios. The reg rooms sleep 5 with 2 real beds and a daybed. Reg rooms feel bigger because they don't have the kitchenette but they still have fridge & coffee maker. Reg rooms also have a desk.
Right, of course. I forgot about the pullout and the desk. As it turns out, I just checked cash prices for rooms and studios at some of the resorts that have both, and in several cases the room is a little more expensive than the studio. Not by a lot, but more. So it seems like the cash demand for studios isn't quite as high as for regular rooms. Especially given that they have massive numbers of rooms and relatively few studios available for cash.

 Thread Tools Display Modes Rate This Thread Linear Mode Rate This Thread: 5 : Excellent 4 : Good 3 : Average 2 : Bad 1 : Terrible

 Posting Rules You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts BB code is On Smilies are On [IMG] code is On HTML code is Off Forum Rules
 Forum Jump User Control Panel Private Messages Subscriptions Who's Online Search Forums Forums Home Disney Trip Planning Forums     Welcome to the DIS     The DIS Unplugged Podcast         Power of 10 - DIS Events to Benefit GKTW         Podcast Cruises         DIS Adventures by Disney Trips     Theme Parks Attractions and Strategies         Doing the Happy Dance!         Disney Promotions and Celebrations--Current Promotion: Limited Time Magic         Theme Parks Community     Disney Resorts         Disney Discount Codes and Rates         Countdowns and Live Reports         Resort Community Threads & Photo-Video     Disney Restaurants         Disney Dining Reservations         Disney Dining Plan         Disney Dining Reviews     Orlando Hotels and Attractions         Hotel & Accommodations Reviews     Adventures By Disney     Disney Trip Reports         Pre-Trip Reports and Plans         Completed Trip Reports     Budget Board     Disney Rumors and News     Disney for Families         DIS Dads     Disney for Adults and Solo Travelers     The College Board     Teen Disney         Teen Board Birthdays and Celebrations     Gay and Lesbian at Disney     Disney World Tips     Transportation     disABILITIES!         disABILITIES Community Board     Camping at Disney World         Camping Community Board     Disney Weddings and Honeymoons         Planning our Happily Ever After             Completed trip reports and planning journals     DIS en Español Disney Vacation Club     Purchasing DVC     DVC Member Services     DVC Resorts     DVC-Mousecellaneous     DVC Trip Reports Global Neighbours     UK Trip Planning Forum     UK Community Board     UK DVC Discussion     UK Trip Reports Board     Canadian Trip Planning & Community Board     Disneyland Paris Trip Planning & Community Board         Disneyland Paris Trip Reports Board     Other Lands         Australia         Tokyo Disneyland         Hong Kong Disneyland Disney Cruise Line     Disney Cruise Line Forum         Disney Cruise Meets         Disney Cruise Line Trip Reports             Disney Cruise Line Pre-Trip Reports Royal Caribbean     Royal Caribbean Disneyland     Disneyland (California)         Southern California Theme Parks         Disneyland Community Board     California & the West         Southern California         Las Vegas     Disneyland Trip Reports         California & the West Trip Reports Universal Studios/Sea World     Universal Studios/Islands of Adventure Forums     Universal Orlando Resorts & Hotels     Universal Studios Trip Reports     Sea World / Discovery Cove Just for Fun     Community Board         Congratulations & Birthday Wishes         Games         Exchanges         United We Stand     Disney Movies, Books, TV and Music     Photography Board     Disney Online Games         Non-Disney Online Games         Virtual Traders Market         Online Gaming Community Board         Virtual Magic Kingdom (VMK) Museum             VMK Creations     In Memoriam     Dis Meets     The Creative Community         Arts and Crafts         Cooking         Flower & Garden Forum         Home Interior         Virtual Scrapbook         Scrapbooking         Swaps     W.I.S.H         Eating Healthy         Events/Competition         WISH Journals     Coping and Compassion     Just Say Thanks     Disney Rewards Programs     Disney Collectors Board         Trades/Wants Board     Creative DISigns     Disney Cast Members Technical Support     Technical Support         Test Board

 GET OUR DIS UPDATES DELIVERED BY EMAIL

 -- Default ---- DIS Unplugged ---- Disneyland ---- Disney Cruise Line ---- Universal Orlando ---- Disney Vacation Club ---- FLTOURS Transportation ---- Swan & Dolphin Resort ---- Adventures by Disney ---- Holidays ------ Holidays Light Contact Us - www.DISboards.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:51 PM.