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Old 06-12-2013, 06:38 AM   #181
Yellowstonetim
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Originally Posted by luv2sleep View Post
Are you in California? This is what happened to us. I basically homeschooled my son while we were gone. I had to teach him EVERYTHING he was supposed to do all day that the other kids were learning while he was gone AND do the daily homework. He's in kindergarten and he had to do the art projects too. It took 2 hours a day for a total of 10 hrs of work on vacation. We were gone 2 weeks and didn't do work on port days. It was painful. Seeing as he will be in a higher grade there will likely be more work. Ugh. Definitely have to take this into consideration.
I think it is reasonable to require work but not reasonable to require everything. Our teachers gave the child some work that covered the material. If they could show proficiency in that, than the rest of the class work wasn't necessary. We also did a lot of the work on the weekends before leaving for the trip if I remember, but the amount of work the teachers required was not difficult to accomplish and the kids weren't behind much when they got back. Of course, both my kids were a little ahead of the curve anyway and it never impacted their grades.
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Old 06-12-2013, 06:48 AM   #182
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ITrying to gather work prior to a vacation should not "just be considered part of my job". I have plenty of other duties that are spelled out and take up my time thank you very much. I am not sitting around wondering how to fill my time.


As other teachers have pointed out - many students DO NOT complete this work! Nothing is more aggravating than spending your time gathering work and have students not complete it. (Many of you on here have said you completed the work and that is awesome - I thank you for that - it is the best way to show you respect the teachers time and your child's education!)

I guess I take offense at the idea that teachers should be expected to do this extra work without thought and should consider those who attend school a bonus?!? Funny I thought part of going to school was the actual "going"...

Don't even get me started on "what is best for the child not the teacher" quote... how rude! I feel you do not respect how hard teachers work or the effort we put in everyday....
I apologize, I didn't mean to demean your work or be rude. I just meant that if the whole system was designed from the start to support 1 to 2 weeks of travel during the school year and this was part of the plan everywhere, things might work better given how many children travel. I didn't mean that is the way and individual teacher should do things now. If it was part of how schools operate, it wouldn't be extra work.

I do understand that there is far too much that is not part of the school plan that teachers are just required to do on there own, and that is not right.

I would hope students grades would reflect incomplete work! Why have the teacher put it together and why have the student work to complete it if it won't matter whether or not it is done? We always did the work and were thankful for it.

Teachers typically put children first, but I wonder about school districts sometimes. At school, the customer is the child, and their needs should come first. They often have no choice in what their parents do. I have seen school districts punish kids including homeschool kids to make their point.
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Old 06-12-2013, 08:09 AM   #183
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Maybe everyone who has posted replies on this thread is in dire need of a Disney vacation! This discussion seems to be in the process of becoming overly heated! Take a deep breathe and smile everyone! Remember the reason why we all joined Disboards in the first place!
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Old 06-12-2013, 08:09 AM   #184
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Old 06-12-2013, 09:24 AM   #185
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I am not saying 28 days, that is very excessive and there should be reasonable limits. Who even gets 28 days of vacation to take?

I am thinking of the average family that gets 2-3 weeks a year and due to work schedules, finances, what have you cannot take a vacation during school breaks. That amounts to a maximum of 15 school days, but with school schedules being what they are with half days where virtually no education happens once a week, we are now down to a maximum of 12 educational days. As I said in my other posts, since lesson plans have to be turned in at least two weeks before school starts (something that I hear teachers around hear complaining about to no end, so I know it's the way it works here at least), this shouldn't be too difficult to begin with. Then factor in teacher prep days and such and you will most likely down to no more than 10 educational days (for three weeks worth of vacations) to make up. This doesn't factor in any movie days, assembly days or other such items that chew into the educational days.

So, I still maintain it is not as big of a deal as you are making it out to be. I am not saying its not extra work, but I am saying that we need to put it in perspective.
We have half days once every two months, I show a full length movie once a year- the last day or two of school and we have a 30 minute assembly maybe once a month for K and 1- much less above grade 2 and 1-2 whole school "party assemblies" a year. No idea what a teacher prep day is- are you talking about the two days before school starts? Well, yeah, school hasn't even started yet- vacation to your heart's content! I am not required to even write formal lesson plans (but I do) much less turn them in. I stand by it isn't a huge deal for one child- it adds up for 27 kids. I like the system of giving it afterwards much better. Let the kids have fun on vacation. I don't need to occupy them on the plane, the parents can figure that out!
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Old 06-12-2013, 09:58 AM   #186
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I think it is reasonable to require work but not reasonable to require everything. Our teachers gave the child some work that covered the material. If they could show proficiency in that, than the rest of the class work wasn't necessary. We also did a lot of the work on the weekends before leaving for the trip if I remember, but the amount of work the teachers required was not difficult to accomplish and the kids weren't behind much when they got back. Of course, both my kids were a little ahead of the curve anyway and it never impacted their grades.
We had lesson plans to complete and I had to turn it all back in. This is a California state requirement. If we didn't do it he wouldn't have qualified for the independent study. I had to sign an agreement before taking him out promising that I would get it all done. There is zero leeway with this. You have to do it so that the state wouldn't consider him truant. In fact the completed packet was actually sent to the state for review. Completing it was not optional. It was mandatory.
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Old 06-12-2013, 09:58 AM   #187
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What I don't understand is why in today's society we are so obsessed with giving children busy work. I don't remember getting all of this work when I was a kid and I think I turned out to be a relatively intelligent person. I think we want to give children so much paperwork to do and lose sight of them just understanding the concepts. I think if a teacher just gave out objectives for the missed time (instead of gathering gobs and gobs of paperwork,assignments,dittos.etc), both child and parent can spend time creatively learning and presenting these concepts. English could be writing an essay about a particular aspect of your trip. For young children, even and odd by looking at stateroom numbers. Percentages from gratuities. World culture. I'm sure many educational concepts can be learned on vacation just as well as from a worksheet, maybe even better. This would also save the teacher the hassle of getting massive amounts of work together.
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Old 06-12-2013, 10:08 AM   #188
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What I don't understand is why in today's society we are so obsessed with giving children busy work. I don't remember getting all of this work when I was a kid and I think I turned out to be a relatively intelligent person. I think we want to give children so much paperwork to do and lose sight of them just understanding the concepts. I think if a teacher just gave out objectives for the missed time (instead of gathering gobs and gobs of paperwork,assignments,dittos.etc), both child and parent can spend time creatively learning and presenting these concepts. English could be writing an essay about a particular aspect of your trip. For young children, even and odd by looking at stateroom numbers. Percentages from gratuities. World culture. I'm sure many educational concepts can be learned on vacation just as well as from a worksheet, maybe even better. This would also save the teacher the hassle of getting massive amounts of work together.
The problem is school systems stopped teaching students how to learn and think independently and started teaching to the tests. There is a HUGE uproar in NYC right now about "expect the scores to be lower this year because we haven't had time to teach to this new Common Core test" - something which *gasp* required students to form, state and support their own opinions. Something which even 24 years ago when I graduated from high school we were taught to do in our regular classroom as part of our regular curriculum regardless of what the tests were going to be covering. So right now, anything that isn't on the tests isn't put into the curriculum. Sadly, real-world learning hasn't been part of the tests for a while. I'm harboring some slight hope that the Common Core might change that. It's very slight though.

Special ed alternate assessment may be tough, but we can at least teach them general skills and tasks without worrying about "is it going to be on the test???" We can select the tasks that best fit our students when putting together their assessment portfolio.
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Old 06-12-2013, 12:28 PM   #189
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Another idea: If the system would allow 1 to 2 weeks for every student to travel during the school year, it should also be designed to allow every teacher to travel 1 to 2 weeks during the school year!

And how about a "Teacher" button for at Disney? I bet lots of people would say thank you!

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My help comes from the LORD, the Maker of heaven and earth. Psalm 121:1-2

"Remember, no matter where you go... there you are!" Buckaroo Banzai

1980 - Disneyland for 1 day while in the US Navy
1981-1983 Several 1 day visits while living in Orlando
1984- 1996 Several one and two day visits while visiting family
2000 January - 4 Nights, 5 Days - All Star Movies
2012 January - 5 Nights, 6 Days - Caribbean Beach
2013 September - 9 Nights, 10 days - Port Orleans Riverside Royal Room.
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Old 06-12-2013, 12:34 PM   #190
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Another idea: If the system would allow 1 to 2 weeks for every student to travel during the school year, it should also be designed to allow every teacher to travel 1 to 2 weeks during the school year!

And how about a "Teacher" button for at Disney? I bet lots of people would say thank you!



I would totally support this idea!!

(Though going to a year-round cycle like they had in Raleigh (in the schools where it was year-round, there were A, B, C, and D groups of students and teachers) when I was doing youth ministry there, not everyone has the same breaks. The same amount of days, yes. But not all students are out at any given time. It would be like ABC, BCD, CDA, DAB. And yes, to the degree possible, all siblings would be placed in the same rotation if they were in year-round.
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Old 06-12-2013, 12:50 PM   #191
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I would totally support this idea!!

(Though going to a year-round cycle like they had in Raleigh (in the schools where it was year-round, there were A, B, C, and D groups of students and teachers) when I was doing youth ministry there, not everyone has the same breaks. The same amount of days, yes. But not all students are out at any given time. It would be like ABC, BCD, CDA, DAB. And yes, to the degree possible, all siblings would be placed in the same rotation if they were in year-round.
We used to do tracks in our elementary school. There were more kids in the feeder area than there were spaces in the school. We loved it, it meant that there were always 3 tracks on, and 1 track off excluding holiday times (I think everyone got 2 weeks between Christmas and New Year and the 2 days on Thanksgiving week) so there could essentially be 1/4 more students served by the school than would fit in the school. We could vacation during the off seasons, and I think the kids did much better at retaining what they learned when they were 9 weeks on and 3 - 4 weeks off rather than 12 weeks off.

Our school district stopped doing tracks because it's too expensive for them. They have to pay the front office staff, utilities on the building, bussing, etc for the full year instead of just the 9 months of the school year. So, they reshuffled people and went back to a traditional schedule.

As for pulling my kids out, I have, and if I need to, I'll do it again, but it's not my first choice.
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Old 06-12-2013, 12:59 PM   #192
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I am not saying 28 days, that is very excessive and there should be reasonable limits. Who even gets 28 days of vacation to take?

I am thinking of the average family that gets 2-3 weeks a year and due to work schedules, finances, what have you cannot take a vacation during school breaks. That amounts to a maximum of 15 school days, but with school schedules being what they are with half days where virtually no education happens once a week, we are now down to a maximum of 12 educational days. As I said in my other posts, since lesson plans have to be turned in at least two weeks before school starts (something that I hear teachers around hear complaining about to no end, so I know it's the way it works here at least), this shouldn't be too difficult to begin with. Then factor in teacher prep days and such and you will most likely down to no more than 10 educational days (for three weeks worth of vacations) to make up. This doesn't factor in any movie days, assembly days or other such items that chew into the educational days.

So, I still maintain it is not as big of a deal as you are making it out to be. I am not saying its not extra work, but I am saying that we need to put it in perspective.
Maybe we should put it in this perspective to help you see it from a teacher's point of view: teachers already work more hours than they are paid for. So every "little" extra thing a parent asks for is essentially the same as your boss asking you to stay late for no extra pay, time after time after time. Now, teachers put up with this for various reasons (the main one being that we love our students), but that doesn't make it right to take advantage of it.

1/4 of all new teachers burn out and quit within 4 years. And it's not because teaching is too hard. It's all the other stuff they have to deal with, including the long hours (personally, as a teacher, I easily worked 50+ hours during the school year, not including lesson planning before the year started--before I was ever paid). That's not to say you should feel sorry for teachers. It's to say that every "little" thing we ask a teacher to do on their own time is a HUGE thing to them and to their family. So be aware and be appreciative of the free service they are offering. Oh, and don't minimize the importance of the time they are donating to your family. That's all.
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Old 06-12-2013, 01:05 PM   #193
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Maybe we should put it in this perspective to help you see it from a teacher's point of view: teachers already work more hours than they are paid for. So every "little" extra thing a parent asks for is essentially the same as your boss asking you to stay late for no extra pay, time after time after time. Now, teachers put up with this for various reasons (the main one being that we love our students), but that doesn't make it right to take advantage of it.

1/4 of all new teachers burn out and quit within 4 years. And it's not because teaching is too hard. It's all the other stuff they have to deal with, including the long hours (personally, as a teacher, I easily worked 50+ hours during the school year, not including lesson planning before the year started--before I was ever paid). That's not to say you should feel sorry for teachers. It's to say that every "little" thing we ask a teacher to do on their own time is a HUGE thing to them and to their family. So be aware and be appreciative of the free service they are offering. Oh, and don't minimize the importance of the time they are donating to your family. That's all.
So, while I can understand and appreciate that you work 50+ hours during your school year, I would also hope that you understand and appreciate that I am in IT, and spent about 10 years working 60 - 80 hour weeks every week of the year. I didn't get summers off, and I didn't get paid for that extra time. It's not an unusual situation any more for people to be expected to work more hours during the week than they are paid for by salary, which is probably why there isn't too much sympathy out there for teachers when they complain about it. We all do it, it's life. Yes, you're doing something nice for a child going on vacation, but it's not anything above and beyond what I'm expected to do every week.
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Old 06-12-2013, 01:09 PM   #194
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Maybe we should put it in this perspective to help you see it from a teacher's point of view: teachers already work more hours than they are paid for. So every "little" extra thing a parent asks for is essentially the same as your boss asking you to stay late for no extra pay, time after time after time. Now, teachers put up with this for various reasons (the main one being that we love our students), but that doesn't make it right to take advantage of it.

1/4 of all new teachers burn out and quit within 4 years. And it's not because teaching is too hard. It's all the other stuff they have to deal with, including the long hours (personally, as a teacher, I easily worked 50+ hours during the school year, not including lesson planning before the year started--before I was ever paid). That's not to say you should feel sorry for teachers. It's to say that every "little" thing we ask a teacher to do on their own time is a HUGE thing to them and to their family. So be aware and be appreciative of the free service they are offering. Oh, and don't minimize the importance of the time they are donating to your family. That's all.
Amen to all of the above. Just completed my 1st year. Worked an average of 80 hours/week. Summers are used for professional development--I have 2 seminars I have to attend, as well as write a formal curriculum, write grants, plan for next year, etc. Summers are when teachers actually get work done!
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Old 06-12-2013, 01:09 PM   #195
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I just meant that if the whole system was designed from the start to support 1 to 2 weeks of travel during the school year and this was part of the plan everywhere, things might work better given how many children travel.
The system is designed to allow travel: during the summer. But as a previous teacher pointed out, folks like to travel during off-peak times because it's generally cheaper and the crowds might be smaller. But that doesn't make traveling at off-peak times more valuable educationally than travel during peak times.
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