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Old 05-30-2013, 10:16 AM   #1
lovin'fl
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Help me do the math

We are going to WDW with all my inlaws (15 of us) for Xmas. We are staying at AKV from 12/20-12/25. We arrive early 12/20 and leave early on 12/25. SIL1 is getting TIW card and can use for 10 people...my family of 5 will not be included (we are only all, 15 of us, eating 3 dinners together: 12/20, 12/22 and 12/24). We bought the DP as our TIW card expired and we'd need to pay $100 now to get one. We have an Oct trip, just DH and I, for F&W where we will only be doing 1 TS (Kona). Other than that, we will not be back at WDW w/in the 13 months of the TIW card usage. And 12/24 is a black out date for TIW card. Here are the dining plans...should we stick with DP or get TIW card? TIA!!

Oct 17- buy TIW card and use at Kona (late lunch for 2)

Dec 20- Biergarten (dinner for 5)
Dec 21- Boma (dinner for 5)
Dec 22- Le Cellier (dinner for 5)
Dec 23- 50s Prime Time (lunch for 5)
Dec 24- Ohana (dinner for 5)
Dec 25- fly home
**also would like to pop into Via Napoli and Sanaa (lunch for 2-5 of us ??)
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Last edited by lovin'fl; 05-30-2013 at 10:33 AM.
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Old 05-30-2013, 10:22 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovin'fl View Post
Oct 17- buy TIW card and use at Kona (late lunch for 2)

Dec 20- Biergarten (dinner for 5)
Dec 21- Boma (dinner for 5)
Dec 22- Le Cellier (dinner for 5)
Dec 23- 50s Prime Time (lunch for 5)
Dec 24- Ohana (dinner for 5)
Dec 25- fly home
**also would like to pop into Via Napoli and Sanaa (lunch for 2-5??)
Le Cellier is 2 meal points. If that makes a difference in your decision. Because that will be 6 meal points when you are getting 5 (1 per night of stay).
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Old 05-30-2013, 10:34 AM   #3
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What's the make up of your 5? Also, what would your other eating habits be? (More CS, more apps vs desserts, adult beverages?)

From looking at it now, especially if you threw in the Via Napoli and/or Sanaa, you'd be way over TS credits using the DDP (as noted, you're already over by since LC is 2TS), you'd be way under if considering the DxDDP (adding those 2, you'd have 8 credits burnt out of 15).

Unless you drop LC for VN/Sanaa and want to dine exactly how the plan suggests (Entree + Dessert at the menu locations, CS for other meals, etc), then I don't see it saving you anything.

For TiW, with 12/24 ('Ohana) blacked out (any other days blacked out?) it may be close to breaking even. You'd need to hit ~$500 worth of discounted food to reach that point. If you're 5 adults, that should be easy in 4 meals (and easier if you add Sanaa and/or Via Napoli). If you're 2 adults and 3 kids, who may not eat all that much, it may be a bit trickier.
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Old 05-30-2013, 10:36 AM   #4
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I know...we'll have to pay OOP for 50s Prime Time. If we do get TIW, we can pop into VN and Sanaa and not feel bad about it. Plus, when we go to 50s, it will be 10 of us and the 5 not going are the other TIW card holders who don't want to go there...so the other 5 won't be getting a discount.
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Old 05-30-2013, 10:37 AM   #5
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I think I posted in the wrong forum...meant to put it in Dining Plan section...oops.
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Old 05-30-2013, 10:45 AM   #6
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We are 2 adults and 3 teens (who eat a ton). We do like to get apps instead of desserts but would be able to follow the DP guidelines and do drink, meal and dessert (and looking forward to refillable mugs)...though many of our places are AYCE (buffets or family style). I thought about deluxe and could add meals to make that work, but it's $1100 more

Here's what I'd add:
lunches at Sanaa, Via Napoli and dinner at Jiko. Would have 3 credits left pp and would try for a room service breakfast Christmas morning before flying home (I just worry about it arriving in time for us to get to ME which will be around 7am). Last credit could be a CS breakfast at Mara one morning. Not sure it's worth another $1100 though.
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Old 05-30-2013, 11:44 AM   #7
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Here's what I figured...looking at menus and what I'd order based on what I want to eat.

I'd spend about $335 for the 5 days in Dec for just me if we had TIW card. That includes buying refillable mug, a couple snacks, 3 CS meals, adding the 3 TS lunches at 50s PT, Sanaa and VN to the 4 TS (including the 1 signature at LC). I also added $20 for my 1/5 of the TIW card cost. OOPS...gotta add $8.50 more for the Ohana night (I figured a TIW discount that night that we won't get)...so $343.50.

If we keep the DP and still go to the 3 TS places for lunch, I would spend about $405 for just me (includes tips and the 3 extra meals)...and I'd have 2 extra CS I wouldn't use unless I get CS breakfasts at Mara. That would save on what groceries we'd have to order for breakfast...or we'd end up just forgoing Sanaa and/or VN (in that case it would be pretty close to the TIW spending).
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Old 05-30-2013, 01:45 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovin'fl View Post
Here's what I figured...looking at menus and what I'd order based on what I want to eat.

I'd spend about $335 for the 5 days in Dec for just me if we had TIW card. That includes buying refillable mug, a couple snacks, 3 CS meals, adding the 3 TS lunches at 50s PT, Sanaa and VN to the 4 TS (including the 1 signature at LC). I also added $20 for my 1/5 of the TIW card cost. OOPS...gotta add $8.50 more for the Ohana night (I figured a TIW discount that night that we won't get)...so $343.50.

If we keep the DP and still go to the 3 TS places for lunch, I would spend about $405 for just me (includes tips and the 3 extra meals)...and I'd have 2 extra CS I wouldn't use unless I get CS breakfasts at Mara. That would save on what groceries we'd have to order for breakfast...or we'd end up just forgoing Sanaa and/or VN (in that case it would be pretty close to the TIW spending).
Let's see if we can break it out of totals. That will end up being easier to compare in general (especially when considering the extra CS and deciding on VN/Sanaa). For the menu restaurants, I'm just throwing a general number in there with DDP style entitlements (drink, entree, dessert). Note, tips are not included in this, since they should be equal (or thereabouts) on both sides and cancel each other out.

(BeforeTax/AfterTax)
Kona (Oct) (No DDP): 35/37.28
Biergarten (D): 36.99/39.40
Boma (D): 39.99/42.59
Le Cellier (D): 50/53.25
50s (L): 25/26.63
'Ohana (D) (No TiW): 39.99/42.59
Via Napoli (L/D): 30/31.95
Sanaa (L/D): 30/31.95
CS (L/D): 13/13.85 (x3)
Mug: 14?/14.91
Snack (3 @ $3.50ea): 10.50/11.19

Buy TiW: $20 (your share)
DDP 5 Nights (Holiday): 56.94/night

So, a (very) rough estimate of each meal done. First look at the raw OOP:
(This is just adding everything up together except the DDP and TiW costs)
$373.29

Raw OOP w/o Sanaa/VN = $309.39

Apply TiW to the above where applicable (tax is after discount)
$210.44 (covered costs) + 110.24 (not covered) + 20 (TiW "cost") = 340.88 (Hey, I didn't do too shabby at guessing the menu prices )

TiW w/o Sanaa/VN = 159.32 + 130.24 = 289.56

Apply DDP (use taxed numbers since DDP covers tax)
284.70 (DDP Cost) + 127.81 (Not covered) = 412.51

DDP w/o Sanaa/VN = 284.70 + 63.91 = 348.61

Now, you do have a couple CS credits left over, which would add ~$28 value to the dining plan (you can add $28 to the raw OOP values for comparison purposes). This brings it almost breaking even. However, you will be tied to the entitlement structure, which you've already indicated may not be ideal. As such, unless the value of prepaying and (more importantly) normalizing the prices between individuals is great enough to overcome the difference in structure and loss of non-DDP covered discounts, I'd shy away from it.

For the TiW, your personal "break-even" point (where the amount saved = the cost of the card) would be around $100 (1/5 of the normal break even). Anything beyond is pure savings. Since you've hit that mark with over $200 in discounted items, then you'll likely come out well ahead with TiW, even if the others in the party spent half as much as you did at the menu restaurants! (Note, even without VN and Sanaa, you'd likely come out pretty decently ahead in this scenario). You also gain the value of being discounted for the others at 50s, which won't affect your bottom line so much, but will work out nicely for those 5 others .

(Even not taking that October Kona into account, you're still coming out on top!)

As far as DxDDP goes, you'd have to fit in at least 4-5 more TS meals as well as absorb a much larger front end cost. While I do enjoy it, it's not an easy thing to manage (plus, I go solo, so it's much easier to absorb the up front for me ). I'd suggest
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Old 05-30-2013, 02:22 PM   #9
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The TiW can be purchased by Florida Residents, DVC Members, and Annual Passholders. It gives a 20% discount on food and beverages (including alcoholic) at most tables service and some quick services location on WDW for up to ten people at a time. When you purchase it, the card is valid for the remainder of the current month plus 13 full months.

Here is a working example, using $100.00 as the original bill to make the math show up easily. Note this is for Table Service. At Counter Service there is no gratuity added.

100.00 - Original Menu Amount
*20.00 - Discount
*80.00 - Subtotal
*18.00 - Gratuity Added based on $100
**5.20 - Sales Tax on $80
103.20 - Final amount charged, takes into consideration discount, gratuity and tax.

Without TiW Discount (and still figuring 18% Gratuity)

100.00 - Original Menu Amount
*18.00 - Gratuity
**6.50 - Sales Tax on $100
124.50 - Total

$21.30 - Savings using TiW Card.

(Note - At Victoria and Albert's the added gratuity is 20% instead of 18%.)
* Ignore the asterisks; they are there only so the columns/numbers line up properly.

For the complete list of locations and the rules, go to www.tablesinwonderland.com which is the Official Disney site.

Based on the current pricing, the following is the break-even point for menu pricing (assuming you will routinely give an 18% tip):
AP Holder or DVC Member ($100) is $469.48
Resident (not AP holder) ($125) is $586.85
Both of the above take into consideration that the Sales Tax is also discounted.
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Old 05-30-2013, 02:37 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cafeen View Post
Let's see if we can break it out of totals. That will end up being easier to compare in general (especially when considering the extra CS and deciding on VN/Sanaa). For the menu restaurants, I'm just throwing a general number in there with DDP style entitlements (drink, entree, dessert). Note, tips are not included in this, since they should be equal (or thereabouts) on both sides and cancel each other out.

(BeforeTax/AfterTax)
Kona (Oct) (No DDP): 35/37.28
Biergarten (D): 36.99/39.40
Boma (D): 39.99/42.59
Le Cellier (D): 50/53.25
50s (L): 25/26.63
'Ohana (D) (No TiW): 39.99/42.59
Via Napoli (L/D): 30/31.95
Sanaa (L/D): 30/31.95
CS (L/D): 13/13.85 (x3)
Mug: 14?/14.91
Snack (3 @ $3.50ea): 10.50/11.19

Buy TiW: $20 (your share)
DDP 5 Nights (Holiday): 56.94/night

So, a (very) rough estimate of each meal done. First look at the raw OOP:
(This is just adding everything up together except the DDP and TiW costs)
$373.29

Raw OOP w/o Sanaa/VN = $309.39

Apply TiW to the above where applicable (tax is after discount)
$210.44 (covered costs) + 110.24 (not covered) + 20 (TiW "cost") = 340.88 (Hey, I didn't do too shabby at guessing the menu prices )

TiW w/o Sanaa/VN = 159.32 + 130.24 = 289.56

Apply DDP (use taxed numbers since DDP covers tax)
284.70 (DDP Cost) + 127.81 (Not covered) = 412.51

DDP w/o Sanaa/VN = 284.70 + 63.91 = 348.61

Now, you do have a couple CS credits left over, which would add ~$28 value to the dining plan (you can add $28 to the raw OOP values for comparison purposes). This brings it almost breaking even. However, you will be tied to the entitlement structure, which you've already indicated may not be ideal. As such, unless the value of prepaying and (more importantly) normalizing the prices between individuals is great enough to overcome the difference in structure and loss of non-DDP covered discounts, I'd shy away from it.

For the TiW, your personal "break-even" point (where the amount saved = the cost of the card) would be around $100 (1/5 of the normal break even). Anything beyond is pure savings. Since you've hit that mark with over $200 in discounted items, then you'll likely come out well ahead with TiW, even if the others in the party spent half as much as you did at the menu restaurants! (Note, even without VN and Sanaa, you'd likely come out pretty decently ahead in this scenario). You also gain the value of being discounted for the others at 50s, which won't affect your bottom line so much, but will work out nicely for those 5 others .

(Even not taking that October Kona into account, you're still coming out on top!)

As far as DxDDP goes, you'd have to fit in at least 4-5 more TS meals as well as absorb a much larger front end cost. While I do enjoy it, it's not an easy thing to manage (plus, I go solo, so it's much easier to absorb the up front for me ). I'd suggest
WOW!!!! That's awesome and a ton of work...thanks! I was thinking along those lines. One difference, though not significant, is that we are DVC and do not pay the holiday rate for DP (get regular rate of $55.59)...saves me $7.25 for the trip ().

So, I think if we want to do those extra TS lunches then we should have TIW (would be a decent amount of savings) and if we can just stick with the DP allotments (plus maybe keeping 50s PT lunch and pay OOP for it) then DP would probably be equal to using TIW card for same exact meals/snacks/drinks, so it would be easier for us to have DP for this as it's pre-paid.

Thanks for calculating for me. I don't know which way we'll go yet. I've already paid for DP...on my Disney Visa (so I also should figure the rewards dollars I get for that...not much, like $14). Though, if I go with TIW, we can put the bills all on same Disney Visa and still get rewards...so I guess that doesn't impact the decision. Sigh!
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