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Old 05-24-2013, 12:22 PM   #46
It'sWDW4me
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HOLD THE PHONE!
I think it's easier to reason with a CHIMPANZEE than to reason with a tween/early teen!
 
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I just remembered a story a co-worker recently told me... Her DD was doing her homework but "forgetting" to turn it in on time. She'd turn it in a day late. DD was asked to go to the Homecoming dance and really REALLY wanted to go. Mom said "sure you can go to the dance.... a day late!" DD was allowed to go to Friday's dance on Saturday (so didn't get to go ) and suddenly her homework was getting turned in on time.


Just another example - find your kids' "currency".
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Old 05-24-2013, 12:24 PM   #47
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HI OP:
I know that raising kids isn't easy and I am truly not bashing you! What concerns me in your posts is that you write that your kids behavior drive you and your husband to react in negative ways. This is alarming to me. You and your husband are CHOOSING to react in certain ways. It is not the kids fault. Your words remind me of a abusive husband who told his wife it was her fault he hit her because she shouldn't have done X, Y or Z.

You and your kids have established very negative ways of dealing with issues. I would strongly suggest counseling as you need to make a break from the old ways and try something radically different.

In the meantime, you have received some very good advice on this thread. Explain to your boys in clear, soft tones what will happen if they cross the line and then take that action. Again....never threaten something you wouldn't follow through with.

I can still hear myself from the past. "No, you cannot have my cell phone to play games because I don't want you draining the battery. Don't ask for it again until we get home. If you do ask again, you will not be able to play with it until tomorrow. Do you have a book in your bag? Take it out and read it now." And then when you get home, don't forget to offer the cell phone to show that you also follow through with your words. I always tried to redirect them in some way as well, else they just obsess over it. In your situation, I would probably have suggested something that he could do at the concert in case he was bored. We ALWAYS let kids take books along and read them anywhere.

Good luck, OP. Its obvious you love your boys and want things to change for the better!
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Old 05-24-2013, 12:26 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by It'sWDW4me View Post
I just remembered a story a co-worker recently told me... Her DD was doing her homework but "forgetting" to turn it in on time. She'd turn it in a day late. DD was asked to go to the Homecoming dance and really REALLY wanted to go. Mom said "sure you can go to the dance.... a day late!" DD was allowed to go to Friday's dance on Saturday (so didn't get to go ) and suddenly her homework was getting turned in on time.


Just another example - find your kids' "currency".
Love it!

Unfortunately, I think in the case of the OP'er, the son would just shove his mom aside, walk out the door, and head right to the dance. It sounds like the kids have control and the OP'er needs to figure out a way to get it back quickly.
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Old 05-24-2013, 12:51 PM   #49
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Yep, LOVE that homecoming story!!!!

OP, after reading your last update, I too am going to go ahead and recommend counseling. With the note that all counselers are NOT equal. You need to find one that is, right from the get go, interested in giving you positive tools and feedback.

You asked, with an example, so I will answer.
NO, you do not make a kid run mile.
Just the same as you don't physically try to control them.. (grabbing arm, ear, hair) THAT IS NOT THE ANSWER.

You might still be looking in the wrong direction here. On the wrong track...

You simply can not, and will not, ever, gain control by physical actions, after the fact.
The result will be what you are currently experiencing. Confusion, aggression, physical outburst, and a very toxic and negative situation.

As many have tried to explain, the focus needs to be on respect, and PROACTIVELY, BEFOREHAND, possessing and maintaining control. Such as, Ipad is an issue... Ipad disappears, and is confiscated for a lengthy period of time. Brother is hateful and disrespectful to younger brother... Separate the two.... Older brother is in the dog-house, so to speak, and gets to go nowhere, while younger brother gets to go do something enjoyable to escape from the toxic negativity. THESE ARE THE TYPES OF CONTROL YOU DO HAVE.

If you are not seeing any of the frustration and confusion lifting, by discussing all of this here. If all of this is just not something that you understand or feel you can do. Then, like some others have said. Don't be afraid to seek some more direct input/counseling. Parenting, and family life in general, is not always easy!!! Don't shy away from getting any support you can!
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Old 05-24-2013, 12:53 PM   #50
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Great advice everyone!!

Made an appt with my Doctor and am in the process of finding family therapy. I know I am the reason my boys act the way they do and really want to make things different. This is not an excuse but I lost my parents 2 weeks apart 3 years ago and it has really affected me emotionally. Can't really take my hurt out on my babies. I need to get a grip on it.
Thanks for understanding
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Old 05-24-2013, 12:57 PM   #51
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We do see that you are doing what you can, and trying to be a good parent!

We do hope that this will help, and things improve soon!
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Old 05-24-2013, 01:50 PM   #52
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Please help me with this.....

My boys are due to be home soon from school. Their rooms are a mess, and they have a full laundry basket of clothes to be put away. How can I get them to do this without a big production. They are NOT going to do it without arguing. What should be my approach? Man, I need an owners manual!!!!!
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Old 05-24-2013, 01:55 PM   #53
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Look for something like this in your area. They work with the whole family and the process works.

http://www.theparenthelpcenter.com/camp-consequence.cfm
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Old 05-24-2013, 01:57 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by lukenick1 View Post
Please help me with this.....

My boys are due to be home soon from school. Their rooms are a mess, and they have a full laundry basket of clothes to be put away. How can I get them to do this without a big production. They are NOT going to do it without arguing. What should be my approach? Man, I need an owners manual!!!!!
First kid to do all of their chores and an inspection as to who did it better gets $10. Then give them both $10 if they come through. Let them know you appreciate them. That may be worth more than the money.
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Old 05-24-2013, 01:58 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lukenick1
Please help me with this.....

My boys are due to be home soon from school. Their rooms are a mess, and they have a full laundry basket of clothes to be put away. How can I get them to do this without a big production. They are NOT going to do it without arguing. What should be my approach? Man, I need an owners manual!!!!!
Stay in their rooms until it's done calmly and quietly. No xbox or whatever until chores are done.
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Old 05-24-2013, 01:59 PM   #56
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I think you already see that parental behavior needs to change also to get this under control. When I read the first post, my first thought was the kids are behaving the way their parents behave to them. Your oldest is physical with his brother and you and your husband are physical with your son with twisting ears and pulling hair. Your oldest is nasty to your other son while dad is screaming at him to the point that he is in tears. Your son is modeling the behavior of his parents.
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Old 05-24-2013, 02:01 PM   #57
It'sWDW4me
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HOLD THE PHONE!
I think it's easier to reason with a CHIMPANZEE than to reason with a tween/early teen!
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lukenick1 View Post
Please help me with this.....

My boys are due to be home soon from school. Their rooms are a mess, and they have a full laundry basket of clothes to be put away. How can I get them to do this without a big production. They are NOT going to do it without arguing. What should be my approach? Man, I need an owners manual!!!!!
Just matter of fact - "Guys your rooms are a mess. No TV (or whatever their after school preference) until you get your laundry away and rooms picked up, please." I ALWAYS use please - I want to hear it so I make sure I say it. TV does not get turned on until you approve their rooms. If they turn it on, you calmly turn it off and remind them no tv (or whatever) until their rooms pass your inspection. Rinse and repeat. Stay calm. You can do it mama!!
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No more tickers for a very long while.

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Old 05-24-2013, 02:15 PM   #58
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What worked for me is to give them some control over the situation. I would suggest telling them that you want them to address their rooms this weekend. At minimum you expect the following: 1) dirty clothes brought to laundry room, 2) clean clothes put away, 3) all dishes brought to the kitchen, 4) trash picked up and trash cans emptied, 5) make your bed. The idea is to be really specific. If you just say "clean your room" they might truly not know what your expectations are.

At this point, I might offer a reward. Who ever has their room cleaned by 6pm on Sunday gets to go out for pizza with Dad and I, or give them a $10 itunes card, or whatever will interest them. And then, I would praise them for doing a great job (if they did!). Not too much criticism though....just baby steps. (NOTE: My expectations as to what was a clean room and theirs were very different. I never forced them to clean to my standards, unless I was in there working with them.)

What didn't work for me was to tie one kid's reward to another. For example, if you both do it we will all go out for pizza. Also, to expect them to do chores when I wanted them to. For example, I would not tell them they had to immediately start cleaning their room when they get home from school. They probably have already made other plans (if only in their heads) and will resent you for forcing them to do something different. I always gave them 24-48 hours to do something.

I hope you have a great holiday with your family, OP!
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Old 05-24-2013, 02:15 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by It'sWDW4me View Post
I just remembered a story a co-worker recently told me... Her DD was doing her homework but "forgetting" to turn it in on time. She'd turn it in a day late. DD was asked to go to the Homecoming dance and really REALLY wanted to go. Mom said "sure you can go to the dance.... a day late!" DD was allowed to go to Friday's dance on Saturday (so didn't get to go ) and suddenly her homework was getting turned in on time.


Just another example - find your kids' "currency".
EXACTLY! DD#2 taught me that and darn was it tough to find her currency! She is basically a good kid but this year, she has slipped in some academic areas. She failed French one quarter and actually cheated on an assignment. She had been really looking forward to her 13th bday. Because of that incident and grade, we cancelled plans for the party.

We then gave her an incentive to do better. We told her she needed to show us that she was ready for the responsibility of getting older and being a "teen". We did tell her if she could pull up her grade next quarter, THEN we'd plan one. She almost didn't pull it off but managed to get a C next quarter. So it was a very scaled down celebration, basically a few friends spending the night & we told them no gifts.

Posted just to say we found we have to be willing to enforce whatever consequence we give.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lukenick1 View Post
Great advice everyone!!

Made an appt with my Doctor and am in the process of finding family therapy. I know I am the reason my boys act the way they do and really want to make things different. This is not an excuse but I lost my parents 2 weeks apart 3 years ago and it has really affected me emotionally. Can't really take my hurt out on my babies. I need to get a grip on it.
Thanks for understanding
I'm sorry OP. You are right to seek help and brave to come here & ask for help. Parenting is not easy EVER.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lukenick1 View Post
Please help me with this.....

My boys are due to be home soon from school. Their rooms are a mess, and they have a full laundry basket of clothes to be put away. How can I get them to do this without a big production. They are NOT going to do it without arguing. What should be my approach? Man, I need an owners manual!!!!!
I would have a talk with your DH, get on the same page, and pledge to support each other. Then I would have a honest family meeting. Explain you are not happy with the current situation and have decided that you all need to change how you interact. Here are the new expectations. I have a feeling the behaviors might get worse before they get better. They will try to test you harder to find those breaking points. Walk away when you have to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by smitch425 View Post
First kid to do all of their chores and an inspection as to who did it better gets $10. Then give them both $10 if they come through. Let them know you appreciate them. That may be worth more than the money.
I like this. Make it positive and give lots of praise for any positive behaviors. Catch them being good and acknowledge them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by It'sWDW4me View Post
Just matter of fact - "Guys your rooms are a mess. No TV (or whatever their after school preference) until you get your laundry away and rooms picked up, please." I ALWAYS use please - I want to hear it so I make sure I say it. TV does not get turned on until you approve their rooms. If they turn it on, you calmly turn it off and remind them no tv (or whatever) until their rooms pass your inspection. Rinse and repeat. Stay calm. You can do it mama!!
Yep, you can do it and you are smart to get things under control before they get older & less likely to listen!!
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Old 05-24-2013, 02:18 PM   #60
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Hi OP, I'm going to come from a different perspective. It just sounds to me like you and your husband have let the situation get out of control because you haven't nipped the mouthiness and disrespect in the bud, and now your boys know they can push, push, push you. I'll be honest, I don't think anything is weird that your husband grabbed his ear. I could totally see my husband doing that and pulling my son out of the situation. But I'm old school. We spanked. I am a big believer in a good swat on the butt is what the majority of kids need today. And before I get flamed, no, I'm not talking dragging out a belt and beating the snot out of your kids, just a pop on the hiney to get their attention.

Kid's need boundaries, and when they don't get them they are going to act out. And I think any parent who says they've never lost their mind and screamed at their kid is probably not being very honest, but if they are, then they have been blessed with mild-mannered, docile little darlings and should thank their lucky stars

We went through times with my son when he was in the late elementary/middle school years when I wanted to pull my hair out in frustration, but you know what? It passes. My kid is now a normal high schooler, who holds the door open for strangers and says "yes sir/no sir", but of course he still smarts off occasionally. That's a normal teenager!

Anyway, my advice is to pull yourself up, prepare for fireworks when you say no and MEAN IT, and be prepared to dole out some punishments. Taking away privileges at that age is always a winner, even if it seems like it is punishing you and your husband as much as your sons. Good luck, and I promise, they will change as they grow up
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