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Old 05-24-2013, 06:34 AM   #16
kellyg403
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Originally Posted by lukenick1 View Post
Thanks all....

Unfortunately sending them to their room is no easy task either. They will beg and beg and beg and come out of their rooms 1,000 times until i lose it again. I really feel like I have NO CONTROL over them at all. It's really pathetic. I am mostly in charge because my husband works a lot of hours. When he is home he sees all the drama and wants to go right back to work. If I followed through with a punishment for everything thing they do wrong they would never have a life. As far as the ipod incident. He was told your not playing that during the concert. He asked to have it at least for the car ride but was to leave it in the car once we got there. He snuck it into the building in his pants. Once I noticed he had it in the building i confiscated it and thats when the begging began. It was so embarrassing when my husband lost his cool. There are times I pull my DS12's hair to get his attention when he is in a rage or just being out of control nasty. How will I explain that to a therapist? DS12 will tell the therapist I pull his hair and next thing you know DSS will be at my door. We are not abusive parents but sometimes you need to react to get them to listen, even then it doesn't work! Good ole fashioned spankings did the trick for us. When I would talk back to my Mother I would get a back hand right across the mouth. Worked for my mouth, but society doesn't allow for that today. Parenting is so difficult and the hardest job around!
Honestly? Your home life with your ds's and dh is negative. Too negative to make positive changes. You must realize that the negativity is causing a lot of the problems as well.

Until your ds understands the rules, when you get to the concert ask for the IPOD and put in the glove box. You have to follow through.

Your boys are not babies. This has been going on for a long time and you will need to find the strength to get off the roller coaster. Your ds's are well aware that they can get to you or get their way by outlasting you. You have to change you and your decisions before they will change. And it will take time. And it will be a pain in the neck. And it will be a punishment more for you then them. But, you can do it!

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Old 05-24-2013, 06:46 AM   #17
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Perhaps they need a few weeks having "no life" to change their ways.
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Old 05-24-2013, 06:50 AM   #18
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Hugs, parenting is tough.

I agree with others, there needs to be consquences and then follow through. I can tell you now my child would be kissing the Ipod/pad goodbye for a long time. But you also need to set them up to succeed, so if you knew he could not handle it at the concert then it should have been left at home.

And I call my kids out on their behavior in public and I dont care. So if they are being mouthy I call them on it, not listening I call them on it in front of people. For my guys this usually embarrasses them enough that they stop.

My friend I think was kind of shock last week when I called out DS15. We were at DS10's game, he was bored. He needed to be there 1) because it is his brother and he can come to a game occasionally and 2) I needed to get him to his game on time and I wasnt making a trip home. Originally DH was going to use him in the dugout, but for whatever reason changed his mind. Now DS15 lives and breathes baseball and has been playing since he was 4. He was tossing the ball in the air around other people. He knows that is not acceptable. I told him to stop. The ball went up again this time onto the field, it did not interupt anything, but I promptly went over and said "give me the ball, if you are going to act like a little kid I will treat you like one" I put the ball in my pocket. I also warned him that if he did anything else, it would be a trip to the car, with nothing and he would wait there until it was time to leave. He knew I was serious. Now some may think oooh harsh, but he knows baseball etiquette and safety, someone could have gotten hurt. And he did not listen. And I dont care who was around, I didnt yell at him, just stated matter of factly but I also did not care who heard me either.
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Old 05-24-2013, 06:50 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by lukenick1 View Post
Thanks all....

Unfortunately sending them to their room is no easy task either. They will beg and beg and beg and come out of their rooms 1,000 times until i lose it again. I really feel like I have NO CONTROL over them at all. It's really pathetic. I am mostly in charge because my husband works a lot of hours. When he is home he sees all the drama and wants to go right back to work. If I followed through with a punishment for everything thing they do wrong they would never have a life. As far as the ipod incident. He was told your not playing that during the concert. He asked to have it at least for the car ride but was to leave it in the car once we got there. He snuck it into the building in his pants. Once I noticed he had it in the building i confiscated it and thats when the begging began. It was so embarrassing when my husband lost his cool. There are times I pull my DS12's hair to get his attention when he is in a rage or just being out of control nasty. How will I explain that to a therapist? DS12 will tell the therapist I pull his hair and next thing you know DSS will be at my door. We are not abusive parents but sometimes you need to react to get them to listen, even then it doesn't work! Good ole fashioned spankings did the trick for us. When I would talk back to my Mother I would get a back hand right across the mouth. Worked for my mouth, but society doesn't allow for that today. Parenting is so difficult and the hardest job around!

Let them beg. Ignore, ignore, ignore. Repeat "go back to your room." Nothing else.

At 9, DS is just about too big for me to physically move him--he's about a foot shorter than me and pretty strong--so I couldn't physically move him to the room, the way I did when he was little.

All I did (when the kids would beg to come out, back when we first started the in your room thing) was repeat "go back to your room." Nothing else. No argument, no attention. I'd keep my focus on the tv or my book or the computer or whatever else I had on hand--I wouldn't even look at the kids. "Go back to your room." They'd talk, and I'd go "go back to your room." No anger or anything in my voice---I have actually ordered ice cream with more attention and energy than I gave the kids when we were in this loop.

Eventually, they realized they weren't getting the attention they wanted (negative attention is better than no attention at all, in kids minds) and they would go to their rooms. When things calmed down, and they had time actually in their rooms, we could talk.

I set clear expectations for behavior, and set clear consequences. I don't change the consequences--if I say "yell at me, and you are in your room for the night" then if DS yells, DS is in his room for the whole night, not just an hour...and I'm not taking the 3DS away and letting him sit in the living room--nope, he's in his room all night.

I haven't had to physically discipline any of the kids since they were about 7. When they were little, spanking was reserved for things that needed to make an impression--touching light sockets, running away from mom, darting into a parking lot--and one or two swats usually did the trick.

The pulling hair thing--that bothers me.

At 10 and 12, they are dependent on you to go places and do things. They don't have their own source of income or a way to go places. Negative behavior = no fun. Negative behavior=no video games or Ipod. Negative behavior = nothing in the bedroom but the bed and dresser. A bed is necessary, toys are not.

DS, at age 7, figured out that when he gets really angry, he needs to put himself in timeout. He will go to his room, shut the door, and get himself under control. On the very rare occasions that he "loses it", I will tell him "get under control" and he remembers he needs to go to his room.

One of my sisters would put her kids in their room with a book (think War and Peace, or Gone With the Wind) and make them read as punishment. They all hate reading. Bad parenting IMO.

Oh, one other thing---the fun stuff, like soccer or band---those are optional too. They are going to let their teammates down when they can't come to the game on Saturday because of throwing shoes or miss that band trip because of the attitude...oh well. Next week, they better fix the problem or they won't be going to practice or next Saturday's game either.

DD2 got concert tickets for her 13th birthday. The day of the concert, she decided to steal a package that I sent her to the mailbox to pick up, open it, break what was in it, and threw it away. I never even saw the box it came in. She said she set it down at the pool and went swimming and someone walked by and stole it (we lived in an apartment at the time)...she lied. She couldn't have gotten in the pool because they were cleaning the pool at the time--it was empty. She told the truth after I took her outside and showed her the empty pool (right outside our door). I went down to a neighbors (outside on their patio) and gave them the tickets. No, we didn't give her another birthday present...she lied, she got caught, she cost me $250 (cost of package)..there was no way she was getting to go have fun.

Last edited by Jedana; 05-24-2013 at 06:57 AM. Reason: ETA
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Old 05-24-2013, 06:55 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lukenick1 View Post
Thanks all....

Unfortunately sending them to their room is no easy task either. They will beg and beg and beg and come out of their rooms 1,000 times until i lose it again. I really feel like I have NO CONTROL over them at all. It's really pathetic. I am mostly in charge because my husband works a lot of hours. When he is home he sees all the drama and wants to go right back to work. If I followed through with a punishment for everything thing they do wrong they would never have a life. As far as the ipod incident. He was told your not playing that during the concert. He asked to have it at least for the car ride but was to leave it in the car once we got there. He snuck it into the building in his pants. Once I noticed he had it in the building i confiscated it and thats when the begging began. It was so embarrassing when my husband lost his cool. There are times I pull my DS12's hair to get his attention when he is in a rage or just being out of control nasty. How will I explain that to a therapist? DS12 will tell the therapist I pull his hair and next thing you know DSS will be at my door. We are not abusive parents but sometimes you need to react to get them to listen, even then it doesn't work! Good ole fashioned spankings did the trick for us. When I would talk back to my Mother I would get a back hand right across the mouth. Worked for my mouth, but society doesn't allow for that today. Parenting is so difficult and the hardest job around!
So they have no life....
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Old 05-24-2013, 07:02 AM   #21
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This is what they are learning.

Beg once, get what I want, no.
Beg 100 times to get what I want, no.

I have to beg 1,000 times and THEN I get what I want, so if I just keep doing it, I will get it, so I will keep doing it. She always caves, but it is a song and dance I must go through until I get what I want.

You and your DH have got to sit down and write out clear consequences and lovingly carry them out with your kids. Then you need to sit down with your children and clearly explain the rules and consequences, and then you HAVE TO FOLLOW THROUGH!

They won't like it, they will possibly try to beg 1,000 more times, but every time you give in, they win. EVERY TIME.

You can respond calmly, "I love you and you are not getting your ipod back." Say it 1,001 times!~

But you won't have to the next time, or the next time......because they will have gotten the message by then.





Quote:
Originally Posted by lukenick1 View Post
Thanks all....

Unfortunately sending them to their room is no easy task either. They will beg and beg and beg and come out of their rooms 1,000 times until i lose it again. I really feel like I have NO CONTROL over them at all. It's really pathetic. I am mostly in charge because my husband works a lot of hours. When he is home he sees all the drama and wants to go right back to work. If I followed through with a punishment for everything thing they do wrong they would never have a life. As far as the ipod incident. He was told your not playing that during the concert. He asked to have it at least for the car ride but was to leave it in the car once we got there. He snuck it into the building in his pants. Once I noticed he had it in the building i confiscated it and thats when the begging began. It was so embarrassing when my husband lost his cool. There are times I pull my DS12's hair to get his attention when he is in a rage or just being out of control nasty. How will I explain that to a therapist? DS12 will tell the therapist I pull his hair and next thing you know DSS will be at my door. We are not abusive parents but sometimes you need to react to get them to listen, even then it doesn't work! Good ole fashioned spankings did the trick for us. When I would talk back to my Mother I would get a back hand right across the mouth. Worked for my mouth, but society doesn't allow for that today. Parenting is so difficult and the hardest job around!
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Old 05-24-2013, 07:05 AM   #22
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Hi all,

I am at my witts end with my kids. Two boys ages 12 & 10. The 12 year old is very mouthy, talks back constantly, disrespects me and treats his brother like an enemy. My 10 year old will not take no for an answer and will harp and harp and harp until we snap and make a scene in public. The 10 year old also very immature and acts up in public for attention. I just cannot get a grip on this. There are days I want to pack my bags and give up. How do I handle the 10 yr old not taking no for an answer? Here is an example.....
He wanted to use his ipod during his brothers band concert. I told him it was not allowed. Instead of accepting that, he kept begging and begging and begging for the ipod while were in line to go in. After hearing him beg enough and telling him to stop 1,000 times my husband grabbed his ear and twisted it in front of a group of people. I was mortified!!!! This is what he does to us, pushes and pushes us til we have reached a boiling point. What message would I have sent if I gave in?

My 12 year old is very negative and nasty to his brother. He never says anything nice to him or about him, always picks fights with him, and is also physical with him. I have taken his electronics away for his abuse, talking back and disrespect. Again, my husband blew up the other day and started screaming at him until he was in tears and the very next day he was right back to the same nasty negative attitude. Please give us some advice how to deal with these issues. I know they are minor to some people but we are not experts and try to do the right thing. No flaming please....we are reaching out for advice. Not looking to be attacked for doing it wrong.
Thanks so much!
What I've learned with my son (he has ADHD and SID and his behaviors could/sometimes still can get like your youngest's), is you absolutely have to remove all emotion from when you punish him. Blowing up or even sounding angry just makes him exponentially worse.

It sounds like your oldest is a bit jealous of your younger son. We usually tend to give more attention to the youngest, because they usually need more, but I think sometimes the older kids get left out and they can take it out on the younger kids.

How do each of them do in school, behaviorally? If there are behavior issues in school, as well (especially with your youngest), you may want to get some testing done to rule out ADHD or something similar.

Family counseling would probably help a lot.
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Old 05-24-2013, 07:09 AM   #23
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BIG fan of John Rosemomd who writes every tues in paper. Common sense parenting. You simply strip each room of everything except the bed and take the door off. Like another OP said you and your husband come together and set the ground rules and expectations. If these are not followed each kid goes to their room and can sit on their bed and look at the ceiling for x amount of hours. This will get real boring and they will realize that you the parent are in control. You set the time limit. I have heard parents do this for hours at time. After the incident that child comes to you for a family meeting to talk things over. Repeat this for as long as possible until you see the desired bEhavior. This would also be for going out with friends or things you do as a family. You might have to cancel many things,but in time things should improve. You as the parent have to stay strong and follow through every single time no exceptions. I would also not let the 2 stay home by themselves. You are inviting lots of trouble. Would love to hear back to see how things are going.
While this works for some kids, it absolutely did not work for my youngest son. We've learned with him, as far as discipline goes, swift, natural and short-lived punishments/discipline works far, far better than harsh, longer termed punishment.
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Old 05-24-2013, 07:12 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lukenick1 View Post
Thanks all....

Unfortunately sending them to their room is no easy task either. They will beg and beg and beg and come out of their rooms 1,000 times until i lose it again. I really feel like I have NO CONTROL over them at all. It's really pathetic. I am mostly in charge because my husband works a lot of hours. When he is home he sees all the drama and wants to go right back to work. If I followed through with a punishment for everything thing they do wrong they would never have a life. As far as the ipod incident. He was told your not playing that during the concert. He asked to have it at least for the car ride but was to leave it in the car once we got there. He snuck it into the building in his pants. Once I noticed he had it in the building i confiscated it and thats when the begging began. It was so embarrassing when my husband lost his cool. There are times I pull my DS12's hair to get his attention when he is in a rage or just being out of control nasty. How will I explain that to a therapist? DS12 will tell the therapist I pull his hair and next thing you know DSS will be at my door. We are not abusive parents but sometimes you need to react to get them to listen, even then it doesn't work! Good ole fashioned spankings did the trick for us. When I would talk back to my Mother I would get a back hand right across the mouth. Worked for my mouth, but society doesn't allow for that today. Parenting is so difficult and the hardest job around!
Don't worry about the therapist. It sounds like you really need counseling before things get worse. Do it now while they're young.

And, I can't emphasize enough, you really, really, really need to try and keep your cool and take all emotion out of it. That will help so much.
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Old 05-24-2013, 07:14 AM   #25
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Don't beat yourself up. If you don't want to do counseling, try and find some books, that may give you some ideas on how to deal with certain situations. You must not give in to the 10yr old, if you do, then he knows that his begging is working. My DD was very head strong and would test me....she turned out fine and we have a great relationship.

You need to get it under control now, because the teenage years are at your back door. Also, as hard as it can be, you and your DH must keep your cool. Walk away if you have to, blowing up and yelling does no good. I know how easy it is to get to that point, I am not flaming or judging. I have had my own screaming matches with DD when she was younger.

You could try a positive reward system and also, when they do something nice or behave, praise them. I know that sounds like something you would do with a younger child, but I think it still works with older kids. My DS held the door open for me once, and I praised him about what a little gentleman he was, and now he rushes to doors so he can hold it open and also holds it open for strangers.

Also, if you have time, maybe this summer, the boys could do some volunteer work for those less fortunate. They can see how blessed they are.

You are a good parent.......good luck!
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Old 05-24-2013, 07:14 AM   #26
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I would focus on the whining/begging, as that's my personal pet peeve as well. Do your boys get an allowance? What whould work with mine is deducting a certain amount from it for every instance of asking/begging/pleading/whatever after you have given your answer the first time. Discuss this with them beforehand, carry a little notebook with you everywhere, and record those deductions. Don't say much out loud, just do it. The less you engage, the better.

Right now, they know they can outlast you - that you will either give in or "snap", and I expect they consider either of those a "win". You have to find the strength to outlast them - so figure out what you adults need, for yourselves, to build up your patience. If you're exhausted, stressed, etc., they have the advantage in stamina. So "put your oxygen mask on first, and then assist your child".

Also, try to find some positive time with each child. Maybe there is a way to plan some fun things, maybe it just starts with each of you taking one on errands with you. But it can really help them to just have some individual attention, away from each other. If they are getting that just in the course of a normal day, they are less likely to seek it by acting up.
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Old 05-24-2013, 07:24 AM   #27
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Don't worry about telling the therapist everything. They have heard worse and they want to help you.

I agree about the simple stating of facts and the unemotional follow through. Their goal is to get you upset, so you need to be calm. Don't forget to catch them doing something good when you can and praise and reward that behavior. They need to see the difference so they can see that positive behavior is to their benefit.
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Old 05-24-2013, 07:25 AM   #28
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My guess is that this behavior is nothing new and that they were like this when they were younger. You have to change long held behaviors on all sides. A 2 yr old that understands consequences grows up to a pre teen that understands them. I see so many parents giving into their toddler's tantrums not understanding that that behavior will continue since it works for them. At their ages, you need to go to family cousneling. You need a independent third party to work through this and set up boundaries. This is not going to magically get better because no one's behavior is just going to change. You all deal with each other they way you've learned/been taught to. That needs to change.

We raised two boys that were 28 months apart. Did they bicker, sure, but there were limits to how they treated each other and us. Begging also never got them what they wanted. They were good kids and have grown up into wonderful adults. Some kids are more difficult than others, but there are ways to deal with them and not have these blowups.
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Old 05-24-2013, 07:34 AM   #29
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Don't worry about telling the therapist everything. They have heard worse and they want to help you.

I agree about the simple stating of facts and the unemotional follow through. Their goal is to get you upset, so you need to be calm. Don't forget to catch them doing something good when you can and praise and reward that behavior. They need to see the difference so they can see that positive behavior is to their benefit.
It could be that they get in trouble so often, they forget what it feels like to get along and feel good about themselves.

OP, I'd also try to go out of your way to be pleasant and have fun things planned to do with your boys at home.
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Old 05-24-2013, 07:44 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by lukenick1 View Post
Thanks all....

Unfortunately sending them to their room is no easy task either. They will beg and beg and beg and come out of their rooms 1,000 times until i lose it again. I really feel like I have NO CONTROL over them at all. It's really pathetic. I am mostly in charge because my husband works a lot of hours. When he is home he sees all the drama and wants to go right back to work. If I followed through with a punishment for everything thing they do wrong they would never have a life. As far as the ipod incident. He was told your not playing that during the concert. He asked to have it at least for the car ride but was to leave it in the car once we got there. He snuck it into the building in his pants. Once I noticed he had it in the building i confiscated it and thats when the begging began. It was so embarrassing when my husband lost his cool. There are times I pull my DS12's hair to get his attention when he is in a rage or just being out of control nasty. How will I explain that to a therapist? DS12 will tell the therapist I pull his hair and next thing you know DSS will be at my door. We are not abusive parents but sometimes you need to react to get them to listen, even then it doesn't work! Good ole fashioned spankings did the trick for us. When I would talk back to my Mother I would get a back hand right across the mouth. Worked for my mouth, but society doesn't allow for that today. Parenting is so difficult and the hardest job around!
Oh my goodness, you need to get a handle on your own behavior before you can address your children's behavior. Parenting is a difficult job, and there are times when a parent will overreact, but Holy Cow! Hair pulling? Rages?

The bottom line is that you are responsible for molding responsible adults, and if you think that you need to react, even if the reaction is violent, I am afraid for all of you. A therapist is not going to judge you if you come in for help to learn how to control your actions, but you will definitely be opening yourself up to long term problems if your son decides that he is angry and tells a teacher at school that you have been abusive. And this is abusive, IMO.
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