Ths DIS is a great place to ask Disney Cruise Line questions and share tips.
Dreams Unlimited Travel - The official sponsor of the Disney Cruise Forums Dreams Unlimited Travel - the official sponsor of the Disney Cruise Forums  

Go Back   The DIS Discussion Forums - DISboards.com > Disney Cruise Line > Disney Cruise Line Forum
Find Hotel Specials & DIScounts
 
facebooktwitterpinterestgoogle plusyoutubeDIS UpdatesDIS email updates
Register Chat FAQ Tickers Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read



Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 05-29-2013, 11:21 AM   #556
Bella29
Mouseketeer
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 113

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beermam42 View Post
amen end of storyy

beer maam, end of what story? If you mean the end of inane comments regarding the victim not making a scene, or the grandmother not protecting her child enough, I hope so!!

But definitely not the end of the story for those of us who want an explanation of DCL's role in this situation. That is the main issue here.
Bella29 is offline  
Old 05-29-2013, 11:26 AM   #557
Rogillio
DIS Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Alabama
Posts: 2,034

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bella29 View Post
If you are saying that I am jumping to conclusions regarding the timeline of what happened in the first two hours, I disagree. We have the timeline constructed from the timestamped video and a reputable reporter's report of DCL's own incident report.

The rest I said is appearances. Until DCL explains their actions, we can only go on the apparent motive for their actions.

If the reporter had the DCL incident report, he should have published it. If he didn't have the report he had to rely on someone telling him what the report says. Not saying the report is wrong, just saying there are a lot of unanswered questions.

Assuming a 'motive' suggests foul play and this could very easily be one person's ignorance of the law.
__________________
WDW 4/98, Yellowstone 6/99, 4-day Bahamas DCL 6/00, Washington DC 6/01, WDW 1/02, Scotland 6/02, Alaska 6/03, 7-day Caribbean DCL 6/04, 4-day Bahamas DCL 1/05, WDW 1/05, Universal 3/05, Norway 6/05, NYC Waldorf-Astoria 10/05, Snowshoe, WV 12/05, China Adventure 3/06, WDW 6/06, Copper Mountain, CO 12/06, 11-day DCL Med Cruise 5/07, 4-day Bahamas DCL 10/07, 7 Day NCL cruise - Hawaii 7/08, Door County, WI 7/09, Snowshoe WV, 12/09, 12-day DCL Baltic cruise 6/10, 7-day Caribbean HAL 12/10, WDW 6/11, 5-day Dream NYE 12/11, 7-day Canadian HAL 6/12, 3-day Dream Jan 2013, 4-day Dream Feb 2013, 5-day CCL NOLA, 7 days hiking in the Himilayans, Katmandu, Nepal 5/14 7-day RCCL 7/14
Rogillio is offline  
|
The DIS
Register to remove

Join Date: 1997
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 1,000,000
Old 05-29-2013, 11:27 AM   #558
JnDRader
Mouseketeer
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Outside Atlanta
Posts: 360

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bella29 View Post
If you are saying that I am jumping to conclusions regarding the timeline of what happened in the first two hours, I disagree. We have the timeline constructed from the timestamped video and a reputable reporter's report of DCL's own incident report.

The rest I said is appearances. Until DCL explains their actions, we can only go on the apparent motive for their actions.
Unless there is video that is more clear than what has been show it is inconclusive. It could be seen as supporting the girl's claim and it could also be seen as not proving anything. Like I said, maybe there's a video that is more clear.

Also, the reporter being reputable is a matter of opinion. I don't hold this reporter in high regard. Sensationalizing news doesn't make it more true. The reporter moved beyond facts and inserted conjecture. Until we see the report in its entirety, which I doubt we will, then it is still jumping to conclusions to believe that we have all the information needed. We don't even know exactly what the CM confessed to. Did he confess to purposely molesting the girl or did he confess to accidentally touching her?

As to appearances, that's exactly what I said. Jumping to conclusions. I can absolutely see where you are coming from but I think it's a rush to judgement. I'm not saying the DCL didn't try to cover it up, just that there isn't enough information to say for certain one way or another. There is the presumption of innocence in this country until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. I see no reason to consider Disney guilty, yet.
__________________


JnDRader is offline  
Old 05-29-2013, 11:35 AM   #559
honeymo78
Don't dream it, be it
 
honeymo78's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Ridley Park, PA
Posts: 4,133

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeppelin View Post

my only question is, and i don't know the answer, do charges need to be pressed by the victim in the case of assault/sexual assault of a minor when there's video evidence at hand???
I'm not a criminal lawyer but I did go to law school. The victim does not have to press charges but they would eventually need her testimony. They might be able to charge him based on the video, but unless there is more footage, it's inconclusive and likely would not be enough for a conviction without the victims testimony. Many sex crimes go unprosecuted due to lack of physical evidence and lack of cooperation from the victim.
__________________
-Stephanie-
Me stitch eva nala
Past trips: 5/13 BWV, 1/13 Dream and OKW, 9/12 Fantasy, 5/12 BLT, 9/11 BWV, 5/11 VGC, 12/10 BWV, 9/10 Wonder and BLT, 5/10 BWV, 12/09 OKW, 10/09 AKV Conc, 5/09 DL GCH, 12/08 SSR, 10/08 CR MKV, 10/07 CR MKV, 3/07 Pop, 2/06 CR MKV, 10/05 WL, 5/04 WL, 8/03 POR/WL, 8/01 POR Many more since the 80s

honeymo78 is offline  
Old 05-29-2013, 11:39 AM   #560
Rogillio
DIS Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Alabama
Posts: 2,034

Quote:
Originally Posted by JnDRader View Post
Unless there is video that is more clear than what has been show it is inconclusive. It could be seen as supporting the girl's claim and it could also be seen as not proving anything. Like I said, maybe there's a video that is more clear.

Also, the reporter being reputable is a matter of opinion. I don't hold this reporter in high regard. Sensationalizing news doesn't make it more true. The reporter moved beyond facts and inserted conjecture. Until we see the report in its entirety, which I doubt we will, then it is still jumping to conclusions to believe that we have all the information needed. We don't even know exactly what the CM confessed to. Did he confess to purposely molesting the girl or did he confess to accidentally touching her?

As to appearances, that's exactly what I said. Jumping to conclusions. I can absolutely see where you are coming from but I think it's a rush to judgement. I'm not saying the DCL didn't try to cover it up, just that there isn't enough information to say for certain one way or another. There is the presumption of innocence in this country until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. I see no reason to consider Disney guilty, yet.


My sentiments exactly! It's easy to fall into the lynch mob mentality and jump on the bandwagon to hang Disney but there are too many unknowns. The girl was Bazilian and we don't even know if she spoke English or Portugeese. We've not seen the incident report.....only a reporter who claims to have talked to someone who claims to have seen it.

I know we'd all like for Disney to issue a press release on this but I don't see that happening. We might just have to accept that we will sooner get to the bottom of the Fast and Furious, Benghazi, AP wire taps and directed IRS audits scandals than to get to the bottom of the "DCL did not report an alledged molestation before leaving PC" scandal.

BTW, the 'resonable doubt' applies to criminal law. The bar is a little lower in civil court where the theshold is a "preponderance of the evidence'. But there is neither in this case yet.
__________________
WDW 4/98, Yellowstone 6/99, 4-day Bahamas DCL 6/00, Washington DC 6/01, WDW 1/02, Scotland 6/02, Alaska 6/03, 7-day Caribbean DCL 6/04, 4-day Bahamas DCL 1/05, WDW 1/05, Universal 3/05, Norway 6/05, NYC Waldorf-Astoria 10/05, Snowshoe, WV 12/05, China Adventure 3/06, WDW 6/06, Copper Mountain, CO 12/06, 11-day DCL Med Cruise 5/07, 4-day Bahamas DCL 10/07, 7 Day NCL cruise - Hawaii 7/08, Door County, WI 7/09, Snowshoe WV, 12/09, 12-day DCL Baltic cruise 6/10, 7-day Caribbean HAL 12/10, WDW 6/11, 5-day Dream NYE 12/11, 7-day Canadian HAL 6/12, 3-day Dream Jan 2013, 4-day Dream Feb 2013, 5-day CCL NOLA, 7 days hiking in the Himilayans, Katmandu, Nepal 5/14 7-day RCCL 7/14

Last edited by Rogillio; 05-29-2013 at 11:53 AM.
Rogillio is offline  
Old 05-29-2013, 12:04 PM   #561
PatriciaH
I want to be an Imagineer!
 
PatriciaH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: MA
Posts: 5,250

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogillio View Post
If the reporter had the DCL incident report, he should have published it. If he didn't have the report he had to rely on someone telling him what the report says. Not saying the report is wrong, just saying there are a lot of unanswered questions.

Assuming a 'motive' suggests foul play and this could very easily be one person's ignorance of the law.

The original story had the picture of the report published. The names of the people were blacked out, but it was from DCL.
__________________
78 Off Site, 89 Off Site, 93 Caribbean Beach, 94 Wilderness Lodge, 94 Caribbean Beach, 96 Dixie Landings, 99 Port Orleans, 00 Disneyland Hotel, 01 Coronado Springs, 02 Coronado Springs, 02 Port Orleans FQ, 03 Animal Kingdom Lodge, 03 Marriott DT Disney/Wilderness Lodge, 04 Animal Kingdom Lodge/Disney Wonder, October 04 Living in Celebration and loving it! 05 Paradise Pier/Grand Californian, 07 Disney Wonder, 07 Grand Floridian, 08 Yacht Club, 08 Adventures By Disney Viva Italia/Knights and Lights/DL Paris, 09 Grand Floridian, 09 Candy Cane Inn/1st D23 Expo, 09 Polynesian, 10 Summer Nightastic, 10 F&W's 15th, 11 Candy Cane Inn/DL/DCA, 11 D23 Scavenger Hunt, 11 Wilderness Lodge/F&W/MNSS/HHN/MVMCP/15th Anniversary Trip, 11 Xmas Trip, 12 WD Family Museum/DL Hotel, 12 F&G, 12 Sept Trip, 12 Wilderness Cabins/F&W/HHN/Fall Trip, 13 January WDW Trip, 13 Paradise Pier/DL/DCA/Cars Land, 13 Sea World/Universal/WDW, 13 Disney Dream/F&W, 14 HHN/F&W
224+ out of 224:
PatriciaH is offline  
Old 05-29-2013, 12:06 PM   #562
PatriciaH
I want to be an Imagineer!
 
PatriciaH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: MA
Posts: 5,250

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogillio View Post
I know we'd all like for Disney to issue a press release on this but I don't see that happening. We might just have to accept that we will sooner get to the bottom of the Fast and Furious, Benghazi, AP wire taps and directed IRS audits scandals than to get to the bottom of the "DCL did not report an alledged molestation before leaving PC" scandal.
but too
__________________
78 Off Site, 89 Off Site, 93 Caribbean Beach, 94 Wilderness Lodge, 94 Caribbean Beach, 96 Dixie Landings, 99 Port Orleans, 00 Disneyland Hotel, 01 Coronado Springs, 02 Coronado Springs, 02 Port Orleans FQ, 03 Animal Kingdom Lodge, 03 Marriott DT Disney/Wilderness Lodge, 04 Animal Kingdom Lodge/Disney Wonder, October 04 Living in Celebration and loving it! 05 Paradise Pier/Grand Californian, 07 Disney Wonder, 07 Grand Floridian, 08 Yacht Club, 08 Adventures By Disney Viva Italia/Knights and Lights/DL Paris, 09 Grand Floridian, 09 Candy Cane Inn/1st D23 Expo, 09 Polynesian, 10 Summer Nightastic, 10 F&W's 15th, 11 Candy Cane Inn/DL/DCA, 11 D23 Scavenger Hunt, 11 Wilderness Lodge/F&W/MNSS/HHN/MVMCP/15th Anniversary Trip, 11 Xmas Trip, 12 WD Family Museum/DL Hotel, 12 F&G, 12 Sept Trip, 12 Wilderness Cabins/F&W/HHN/Fall Trip, 13 January WDW Trip, 13 Paradise Pier/DL/DCA/Cars Land, 13 Sea World/Universal/WDW, 13 Disney Dream/F&W, 14 HHN/F&W
224+ out of 224:
PatriciaH is offline  
Old 05-29-2013, 12:46 PM   #563
DMMarla07860
DIS Veteran
 
DMMarla07860's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Andover, nj
Posts: 6,077

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogillio View Post
I know we'd all like for Disney to issue a press release on this but I don't see that happening. We might just have to accept that we will sooner get to the bottom of the Fast and Furious, Benghazi, AP wire taps and directed IRS audits scandals than to get to the bottom of the "DCL did not report an alledged molestation before leaving PC" scandal.
I agree I don't see Disney issuing a press release on it. I'd like one, but they prob wont that's why I find so funny about this thread. People want it, but it prob wont happen and maybe that's good too
__________________
July 14th-18th, 2002- 3 Night Resort and 4 Night Disney Wonder Cruise, April 23rd-30th, 2005- 7 Night Disney Magic Western Cruise, August 19th-26th, 2006- 7 Night Disney Magic Western Double Dip Cruise, September 6th-9th, 2007- 3 Night Disney Wonder Cruise, July 13th- 20th, 2008- Mexican Riviera Disney Magic Cruise, February 21st-28th, 2009- 7 Night Disney Magic Western Cruise, February 28th-March 7th, 2009- 7 Night Disney Magic Eastern Cruise, August 27th-30th, 2009- 3 Night Disney Wonder Cruise, December 10th-13th, 2009- 3 Night Disney Wonder Cruise, March 6th-13th, 2010- 7 Night Disney Magic Western Cruise, February 17th-20th, 2011- 3 Night Disney Dream Cruise, February 20th-24th, 2011- 4 Night Disney Dream Cruise, April 27th-May 3rd, 2011- 6 Night LA to Vancouver Disney Wonder Cruise
February 16th-19th, 2012- 3 Night Disney Dream Cruise, April 21st-28th, 2012- 7 Night Disney Fantasy Eastern Cruise(first one),
June 15th-17th, 2012- 2 Night Disney Magic Cruise(NYC), August 17th- 25th, 2012- 8 Night Disney Magic Cruise(NYC)March 16th-23rd, 2013-7 Night Disney Fantasy Western March 23rd-30th, 2013-Disney Fantasy EasternUpcoming Cruises: November 20th-24th, 2013- Disney Magic
DMMarla07860 is offline  
Old 05-29-2013, 12:53 PM   #564
manhattanman
Mouseketeer
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 297

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeppelin View Post
my only question is, and i don't know the answer, do charges need to be pressed by the victim in the case of assault/sexual assault of a minor when there's video evidence at hand???
my understanding is no, if the DA believes that a crime against a minor has been committed, i believe he can file charges independently of the victims wishes ( although I am sure they do consider them).

But the DA is not generally going to file on " iffy" cases, but I'm not a lawyer.
manhattanman is offline  
Old 05-29-2013, 12:54 PM   #565
justmestace



Thinks California needs Disney cruise ships!
Has snorkeled all over the Bahamas and the Caribbean
 
justmestace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Cave Creek, Arizona
Posts: 26,992

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogillio View Post
LOL. Are you suggesting we here at the Disney fan site play favorites?! I take a stab at it.

Say you hear of 'kids at school vadealizing school property'. We want to believe it was the OTHER kids, not OUR kids! And you'd better have irrefutable evidence before you accuse my kid of something like that! I raised him to respect other people's property! Now, that Johnson kid downt the street.....that rat, yeah, he prolly did it! ;-)

Believe it or not, I can accept that. I always tried really hard to NOT say "My kid would never do that!"....but deep in our hearts, I'm pretty sure most people think that way.

This is getting to be a bad habit, you and I agreeing on stuff.
justmestace is offline  
Old 05-29-2013, 01:01 PM   #566
justmestace



Thinks California needs Disney cruise ships!
Has snorkeled all over the Bahamas and the Caribbean
 
justmestace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Cave Creek, Arizona
Posts: 26,992

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonka's Skipper View Post
I can understand the Grandmother. We are talking about a 11 year old girl, from a foreign country, scare out of her wits and had already been asked a lot of questions about something she's been traumatized about.

You know with our screwed up legal system, with all the judges and lawyers busy making things best for the predator and not the victims. They would have put that poor girl though hell and back is interviews and testimony in a trial.

The grandmother was to my way of thinking was protecting the child.........I understand your feelings in asking why did she do press charges, but I can see and understand she was protecting her granddaughter.


AKK

My husband and I don't usually discuss the DIS because he doesn't like social media of any kind....and doesn't necessarily like that I spend time on here or Facebook, or whatever....but because of our personal history, I wanted to share this thread with him, to get his thoughts. And he agrees with you about the grandmother. Because of the time, money and effort involved in getting the girl and her family to the States to testify, etc, he says he wouldn't have taken it any further by the time they'd reached the Bahamas, either. But then, he also would have probably been hunting the creep down long before the rest of the crew found him.

He also said that he won't believe for one second that the Captain was not aware of what was taking place on his vessel....maybe not in the first half hour, but once the search was started, we feel certain the Captain was notified.

As American citizens, I think most of us would have seen to it, in one way or another, that it was taken care of before the ship left Port Canaveral, though. I can't help but think that someone, somewhere along the way, took advantage of the fact that this grandmother didn't understand the way things are supposed to work in our country.
justmestace is offline  
Old 05-29-2013, 01:02 PM   #567
manhattanman
Mouseketeer
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 297

Quote:
Originally Posted by JnDRader View Post

As to appearances, that's exactly what I said. Jumping to conclusions. I can absolutely see where you are coming from but I think it's a rush to judgement. I'm not saying the DCL didn't try to cover it up, just that there isn't enough information to say for certain one way or another. There is the presumption of innocence in this country until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. I see no reason to consider Disney guilty, yet.
its clear than a criminal investigation is not likely to be forthcoming, if there is some civil litigation, its unlikely we will ever see the terms of the settlement.

But I'm not sure I like this " let's not jump to conclusions" theory. You can always say that you are only getting one side of the argument but if Disney refuses to talk about it, is that enough to give them a pass ? By not addressing it you diminish the legitimacy of those leviyng the charges because you can always fall back on " but that's just one side of the story", lets see what Disney says but they are silent.

Whether they did this initially, who knows but I am convinced that if this story does get legs, Disney will do everything in their power to squash it and what actually happened ( in order to evaluate culpability) will likely never be released. Disney protects their reputation, the family gets something ( but something less than justice) and the issue of potential illegality is never resolved.
manhattanman is offline  
Old 05-29-2013, 01:03 PM   #568
justmestace



Thinks California needs Disney cruise ships!
Has snorkeled all over the Bahamas and the Caribbean
 
justmestace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Cave Creek, Arizona
Posts: 26,992

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonka's Skipper View Post
I want to make one thing perfectly clear Stace!

I HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THAT ARTICLE!

AKK


justmestace is offline  
Old 05-29-2013, 01:05 PM   #569
justmestace



Thinks California needs Disney cruise ships!
Has snorkeled all over the Bahamas and the Caribbean
 
justmestace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Cave Creek, Arizona
Posts: 26,992

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogillio View Post
LOL!

Maybe the Orlando news got it wrong and it was really CCL that dropped the ball?! Yeah, that's prolly it....
justmestace is offline  
Old 05-29-2013, 01:07 PM   #570
justmestace



Thinks California needs Disney cruise ships!
Has snorkeled all over the Bahamas and the Caribbean
 
justmestace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Cave Creek, Arizona
Posts: 26,992

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeppelin View Post
my only question is, and i don't know the answer, do charges need to be pressed by the victim in the case of assault/sexual assault of a minor when there's video evidence at hand???

In the United States, the victim of a sexual assault (molestation) is not the one who presses charges. The State presses charges.

Any evidence would go before the Grand Jury, and then the Grand Jury makes the decision whether their is sufficient evidence to go to trial.
justmestace is offline  
Closed Thread



Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

facebooktwitterpinterestgoogle plusyoutubeDIS Updates
GET OUR DIS UPDATES DELIVERED BY EMAIL



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:38 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Copyright © 1997-2014, Werner Technologies, LLC. All Rights Reserved.