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Old 05-24-2013, 02:03 PM   #406
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Originally Posted by justmestace View Post
I find it interesting (again) that you're coming up with all sorts of ways to not blame anyone onboard. Well, other than the dining room server pedophile, I hope.

The law is the law is the law. And whoever it was, be it Guest Services, Security, whoever....they didn't follow the law. If they had, and they'd called the local authorities, then I bet the Captain would have been notified in a big fat hurry.

And besides....Disney is all about children. I don't believe for one second that the entire crew hasn't had many, many lectures on innapropriate touching, etc, and what to do in the event that they are told by a child or parent that something has happened to their child.
Ignorance is not an excuse....and I think doubly so, in this case.


What the heck are you talking about?! Read my post again. I put the BLAME on A DCL security guy. I could blame an abstract, faceless, corporate entity that we call Disney but Disney is didn't do anything, a person did.

I'm a little taken aback at people saying they are 'disappointed' in Disney.....like Disney is some God-like entity that doesn't rely on mere mortals or fallible humans to function. Lets be real, there is no pixie dust....there is no magic....just people.....and people make mistakes.
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Old 05-24-2013, 02:04 PM   #407
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Originally Posted by maria-fan-22 View Post


Back on topic, I don't know why people are still arguing about this, that guys story was horribly reported and he should not be held for any credible information, but DCL did exactly what they needed to do here. They were able to handle this in house and not involve police and delay departure. Since the grandmother decided to not press charges, DCL cannot do anything except fire they guy, which they did and send him home, which they are bound to do by contract.

And I am a tad confused over Jurisdiction i this case, but I believe that the Port Canaveral police would not have nay right to actually 'book' the Head Server. Because this is a crime between an Brazilian and an Indian that took place 'in the Bahamas'; If I am correct, the police can remove the guy, but he would be transferred to the Bahamian police, who would have no choose but to release him back to DCL to send him home because they didn't press charges.
When in port, local authority has jurisdiction. In the case of sexual assault on a child, it is not up to DCL or the grandmother to press/release chargers. DCL had the obligation to alert the authorities, and they did not.
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Old 05-24-2013, 02:05 PM   #408
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All that being said, can't we all stop the arguing and take this is a learning experience? I would like to kindly point out, that one thing that girl in the video did not do, was cause a scene. Obviously it is too far to say supervise your children at all times, but remember the basic rules is one finds themselves in an 'uncomfortable situation,' make noise, get away, and let it be known that it happened. Lets stop playing the blame game and move on please. I am tired of this thread being at the top of my page...
Yeah, it really is too bad that no one taught this little 11 year old what to do in a situation like this.

Some of us are still discussing, not arguing......sorry this is messing up your page.
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Old 05-24-2013, 02:09 PM   #409
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What the heck are you talking about?! Read my post again. I put the BLAME on A DCL security guy. I could blame an abstract, faceless, corporate entity that we call Disney but Disney is didn't do anything, a person did.

I'm a little taken aback at people saying they are 'disappointed' in Disney.....like Disney is some God-like entity that doesn't rely on mere mortals or fallible humans to function. Lets be real, there is no pixie dust....there is no magic....just people.....and people make mistakes.

Sorry....I do see clearly what you said now. But there are still excuses for that security guy. Nothing should have stopped him from immediately calling local police, is what I'm saying.
Like I said before, I'm certain that all the CM's onboard have been taught procedure for any report of "touching" or similar. And I honestly believe that the first thing that should have happened, as long as they were still in Florida, is that the local police should have been called to handle it.
If it turned out to be nothing, well then, no harm done.
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Old 05-24-2013, 02:10 PM   #410
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But DCL didn't have to investigate themselves - there was no reason for all of those other actions to happen (checking security tapes, talking to the girl). She (or her grandmother) made the complaint to guest services, a call to the police should have been immediate.

In my place of work, if someone claims they were assulted, we don't launch our own investigation and then call the police when we're satisfied that it actually happened. We call the police right away - it's their job to investigate if/what crime has been commited.

Once the police were onboard, they would have spoken to the girl, asked for security tapes, spoken with the suspect. None of this needed to be done prior to calling the police.

When at sea, the ships security has authority - when they are docked at a port, they do not.

You're talking should have happened, I wrote what might have happened. No conspiracy, no over up, no flawed corporate policy....just a security officer deciding he would solve the crime.
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Old 05-24-2013, 02:17 PM   #411
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[QUOTE=maria-fan-22;48489711]Honestly, if a guest punched out a CM, they would probably simply be confined to their stateroom. I highly doubt they would be removed from the ship, definitely not arrested.


I am afraid I disagree......punch anyone CM or another passenger and your off the vessel fast or in the stateroom and put of the vessel the next port.

Arrest would follow if someone wanted to press charges.

Disney or any line would not keep a passenger who has shown he or she is willing to punch someone else.

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Old 05-24-2013, 02:22 PM   #412
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Originally Posted by Rogillio View Post
What the heck are you talking about?! Read my post again. I put the BLAME on A DCL security guy. I could blame an abstract, faceless, corporate entity that we call Disney but Disney is didn't do anything, a person did.

I'm a little taken aback at people saying they are 'disappointed' in Disney.....like Disney is some God-like entity that doesn't rely on mere mortals or fallible humans to function. Lets be real, there is no pixie dust....there is no magic....just people.....and people make mistakes.
Hey buddy we usually agree...but why blame a security person?

Do you think he or she would not to advise the higher ups, to the Master of the incident?

Believe me when I tell you not only was the Master advised but the DCL office was well aware of what had happened!

So that's why *I* am disappointed in Disney.......all the way up to the Master and the vessel manager and above in Celebration. They are Disney for this matter.


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Old 05-24-2013, 02:25 PM   #413
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Originally Posted by justmestace View Post
Sorry....I do see clearly what you said now. But there are still excuses for that security guy. Nothing should have stopped him from immediately calling local police, is what I'm saying.
Like I said before, I'm certain that all the CM's onboard have been taught procedure for any report of "touching" or similar. And I honestly believe that the first thing that should have happened, as long as they were still in Florida, is that the local police should have been called to handle it.
If it turned out to be nothing, well then, no harm done.
I didn't make an EXCUSE for anyone. I know a lot of security people who think they are cops or want to be cop or detectives and the chances are good that he took matters in his own hands. Or he might be a retired cop and figured he could do a better job of investigating than someone who doesn't know the ship, doesn't know the crew and doesn't know the security systems on the ship.

Or maybe he thought there was an imminent threat and wanted to find the guy before he fled or molested someone else and if they waited for a FL detective to investigate the perp might get away.

No one knows what was going on in anyone's head.....but I don't subscribe to the intentional cover-up. I might be wrong....but I doubt it.
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Old 05-24-2013, 02:30 PM   #414
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Originally Posted by justmestace View Post
Sorry....I do see clearly what you said now. But there are still excuses for that security guy. Nothing should have stopped him from immediately calling local police, is what I'm saying.
Like I said before, I'm certain that all the CM's onboard have been taught procedure for any report of "touching" or similar. And I honestly believe that the first thing that should have happened, as long as they were still in Florida, is that the local police should have been called to handle it.
If it turned out to be nothing, well then, no harm done.


The security CM's procedure would be to report to his higher ups and do the investigation. The higher ups report to the Master. He would be the one to give the order to who ever would actually call local or state or who ever.

No one lower down would be permitted to call police and maybe delay the ship without the Masters OK.


Example, in a school if the teacher suspects child abuse, he or she will tell the Principal and then the principal calls the police.

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Old 05-24-2013, 02:34 PM   #415
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You're talking should have happened, I wrote what might have happened. No conspiracy, no over up, no flawed corporate policy....just a security officer deciding he would solve the crime.
Actually I would say it is flawed corporate policy - why is the policy that when in port, if a crime is reported that onboard security is called instead of the police? Why does your lone security have so much so much authority, and so little oversight that when a crime is reported in port, he doesn't immediately call the police?
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Old 05-24-2013, 02:36 PM   #416
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Originally Posted by Tonka's Skipper View Post
Hey buddy we usually agree...but why blame a security person?

Do you think he or she would not to advise the higher ups, to the Master of the incident?

Believe me when I tell you not only was the Master advised but the DCL office was well aware of what had happened!

So that's why *I* am disappointed in Disney.......all the way up to the Master and the vessel manager and above in Celebration. They are Disney for this matter.


AKK
After seeing the video I would agree he likely reported the incident. But depending on what the child said and how credible it sounded, I don't know that he would immediately report it upwards. The child and grandparents were Brazilian and likely spoke Portuguese. They reported a CM touched the child and tried to kiss her. Just can't see the security calling the captain during the emergency drill to report this. After he concluded it was a credible accusation, yes, but not at first report it might not of been clear in his mind there was an adult.
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Old 05-24-2013, 02:37 PM   #417
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If all one is supposed to do is call the police, is there a point to hiring a security guard? I'm just not sure I understand what the point of having SECURITY is, if it's not to respond immediately to security concerns.
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Old 05-24-2013, 02:41 PM   #418
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Actually I would say it is flawed corporate policy - why is the policy that when in port, if a crime is reported that onboard security is called instead of the police? Why does your lone security have so much so much authority, and so little oversight that when a crime is reported in port, he doesn't immediately call the police?

What is the DCL policy? If it is flawed as you say, please cite the policy.

Having said that, if GS bypassed security and dialed 911, the cops would not be allowed on the ship....unless the went thru a judge and got a warrant. So GS better hand the complaint to security.
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Old 05-24-2013, 02:44 PM   #419
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After seeing the video I would agree he likely reported the incident. But depending on what the child said and how credible it sounded, I don't know that he would immediately report it upwards. The child and grandparents were Brazilian and likely spoke Portuguese. They reported a CM touched the child and tried to kiss her. Just can't see the security calling the captain during the emergency drill to report this. After he concluded it was a credible accusation, yes, but not at first report it might not of been clear in his mind there was an adult.

I know what your saying and it not going directly to the Master, its going though a chain of command. Any kind of incident involving any passenger in a sexual or attack, would make its way up pretty fast.

Certainty the Master would know what may or may not have happened prior to sailing.

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Old 05-24-2013, 02:47 PM   #420
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If all one is supposed to do is call the police, is there a point to hiring a security guard? I'm just not sure I understand what the point of having SECURITY is, if it's not to respond immediately to security concerns.


Very true...........in fact its my understanding local police will not respond unless or until they have talked with vessel security first.

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