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Old 05-24-2013, 10:39 AM   #391
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I love DCL and will be cruising for the third time next March. That said, it is a huge ship with thousands of passengers. Kids and families need to be careful. It would be an ideal hunting ground for a predator except that as a closed system the odds of getting caught if the crime is reported are extremely high. But that assumes a cautious predator.

What is so disturbing here is that even if kids are cautious about strangers among the passengers, crew members are the ones we tell them are safe to go to if they ever need help or get lost etc. And with older kids who do have a bit of freedom they need to know where to go for help. I guess it is safer to tell them just to go to guest services, or a club employee, for any help they need and make sure they know the way.

I have let my daughter travel alone in the public sections of the ship. But in the stateroom corridors she knows to go straight from the stairways to the room and never hang around or play in the corridors. Even so, I prefer her to let me know when she is in her way to and from any destination on the ship and when it is the stateroom she knows to phone once she is safely there or safely back in public. Whenever possible she travels around with a friend.
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Old 05-24-2013, 10:53 AM   #392
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Our family and extended family are the biggest Disney fans around, WDW, DL, DCL and the DVC.

That said....


This has been hashed for 27 pages........There is a good deal of information both factual and legal, we don't have. We don't know what if anything would have happened to this guy if he was taken ashore in PC.

I have no opinion at this time if there was a intentional cover up or not

What is clear is that something happened that at the very least warranted DCL advising the authorities, whether that be local, state or Feds and they should have been given the chance to investigate.

In sailing without notifying anyone, DCL failed in their first priority, the rights and safely of their passengers and especially this child.

I know these kind of horrific things have happened on all other lines, but....

I am not happy with DCL right now and as a merchant Officer, that extends to the Master.

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Old 05-24-2013, 11:14 AM   #393
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I wanted to stay silent on this until more details came to light, but since that does not appear to be happening, I'd might as well throw in my two cents.

Based on what we do know, I have to say that I am disappointed in how DCL 'appears' to have handled this matter.

The question that weighs on me was why the ship left port when it did?

I can only speculate that the decision that was weighed by the Captain(?) was one of immediately reporting the alleged incident to the Florida police and potentially having the ship held in port for a number of hours while a police investigation was conducted, versus leaving port and having DCL security conduct its own internal investigation.

The former would likely have raised uncomfortable questions amongst the other passengers as to why the ship had not sailed and Florida police were on board, while the results of the latter appear to be nothing more than the alleged perpetrator having suffered no consequences other than losing his job.

If there is some other logical reason 'why' the ship had to leave port when it did - other than to try to keep the matter quiet - I would appreciate hearing it.
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Old 05-24-2013, 11:49 AM   #394
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonka's Skipper View Post
Our family and extended family are the biggest Disney fans around, WDW, DL, DCL and the DVC.

That said....


This has been hashed for 27 pages........There is a good deal of information both factual and legal, we don't have. We don't know what if anything would have happened to this guy if he was taken ashore in PC.

I have no opinion at this time if there was a intentional cover up or not

What is clear is that something happened that at the very least warranted DCL advising the authorities, whether that be local, state or Feds and they should have been given the chance to investigate.

In sailing without notifying anyone, DCL failed in their first priority, the rights and safely of their passengers and especially this child.

I know these kind of horrific things have happened on all other lines, but....

I am not happy with DCL right now and as a merchant Officer, that extends to the Master.

AKK
1000%...

my daughter is 10YO....we are leaving on our 5th cruise this August...my daughter lives for going on the Disney Cruise...i watch that video and imagine that being my little girl (God forbid) and how it would change her perspective on everything....

besides your thoughtful post this also bothers me- if a passenger got drunk and punched out a crew member before the ship sailed from Port Canaveral would DCL wait then hand him over to Bahamanian authorities?? or call the Port Canaveral police and have him hauled to jail??

this story is so disappointing and sad on a number of fronts....
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Old 05-24-2013, 11:53 AM   #395
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I think a lot of us have been onboard when the ship has left port late. Not just at PC, but in other ports, too.

Sometimes, you might happen to look outside and see that someone is being taken away by ambulance, and most of us, at that point, will say a small prayer for whoever might have been hurt.

And yes, I am going to BOLD this, because I've seen too many people say it:

I SERIOUSLY DOUBT THAT ANYONE'S CRUISE WOULD HAVE BEEN "RUINED" IF THE SHIP HAD STAYED IN PORT ANOTHER HOUR OR TWO LATER, IN ORDER FOR THE POLICE TO COME ABOARD AND ASK QUESTIONS

In fact, 99% of the passengers may have been curious, but they would not have SEEN the police come aboard. And even if they did, so what???
Maybe someone filed a complaint about missing jewelry or something like that?
OR.....maybe someone was doing their job, and found a person who should not have gotten onboard...I'm thinking of something like an illegal immigrant or stowaway, or wanted criminal trying to escape the U.S......yes, it may seem far-fetched....but there could be any number of reasons that the police might come aboard the ship, and it shouldn't be something that would cause anyone to have their vacation ruined.
To me, that's just making excuses for DCL's grave mistake. And I'm sick, reading all the excuses people are coming up with.

There are a LOT of "could be" "would be" "should be" "what if" scenarios about this sad situation.....the only real answer to any of it.......no matter what those "what ifs" are....it was NOT up to Disney to make the decisions. It was up to the LOCAL AUTHORITIES, who were not notified.

Color the picture any way you want to in order to make yourself feel better about Disney, or about what happened, but they were WRONG.


And I know someone complained before about me using BOLD lettering....well, too bad. It's called for. Maybe it will sink in.
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Old 05-24-2013, 11:54 AM   #396
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeppelin View Post
1000%...

my daughter is 10YO....we are leaving on our 5th cruise this August...my daughter lives for going on the Disney Cruise...i watch that video and imagine that being my little girl (God forbid) and how it would change her perspective on everything....

besides your thoughtful post this also bothers me- if a passenger go drunk and punched out a crew member before the ship sailed from Port Canaveral would DCL wait then hand him over to Bahamanian authorities?? or call the Port Canaveral police and have him hauled to jail??

this story is so disappointing and sad on a number of fronts....

Exactly....this is the type of scenario I was trying to think of.
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Old 05-24-2013, 12:00 PM   #397
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Originally Posted by justmestace View Post
I think a lot of us have been onboard when the ship has left port late. Not just at PC, but in other ports, too.

Sometimes, you might happen to look outside and see that someone is being taken away by ambulance, and most of us, at that point, will say a small prayer for whoever might have been hurt.

And yes, I am going to BOLD this, because I've seen too many people say it:

I SERIOUSLY DOUBT THAT ANYONE'S CRUISE WOULD HAVE BEEN "RUINED" IF THE SHIP HAD STAYED IN PORT ANOTHER HOUR OR TWO LATER, IN ORDER FOR THE POLICE TO COME ABOARD AND ASK QUESTIONS

And I know someone complained before about me using BOLD lettering....well, too bad. It's called for. Maybe it will sink in.
didn't the ship leave port canaveral 4+ hours late a few months ago when the young boy had the serious accident at the pool?? (when people were afraid he had drowned??)

you're point is right on...
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Old 05-24-2013, 12:28 PM   #398
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Exactly....this is the type of scenario I was trying to think of.

Not really the topic.....but...

I can't speak to a foreign flag vessel regarding a drunk punch!

US Flag, At the least the guy would have been fired at whatever port they were at, first for being drunk and the second for fighting.


The crew member attacked could press charges, but in the few short fights I have seen onboard a ship, they never did.



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Old 05-24-2013, 12:41 PM   #399
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Lets not assume there the Captain knew about the incident when he made the decision to leave. I met a DCL security officer on the Magic who was a retired FBI agent. I seriously doubt when GS told him of the incident he said, "Get me h Captain, I need to elevate this before we sail!" Egos being what they are in many security rent-a-cops, I'm sure he listened to the story to see if it was credible then pulled up the video and found the time they needed.....probably had to stop and go to the mandatory emergency drill....then talked to someone who could identify the perp.....at this point the mooring lines were cast off and the engines were running.

No idea if this is how it went down.....but it is plausible. So a security officer, who for all we know got fired, is the single point of failure.

The other scenario people seem to be suggesting is someone decided to intentionally drag their feet and quickly leave port so they'd be allowed to not report this and let the guy go and avoid the bad press.

I'm an armature conspiracy theorist but I can't see a plausible cover-up scenario.
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Old 05-24-2013, 12:41 PM   #400
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonka's Skipper View Post
Not really the topic.....but...

I can't speak to a foreign flag vessel regarding a drunk punch!

US Flag, At the least the guy would have been fired at whatever port they were at, first for being drunk and the second for fighting.


The crew member attacked could press charges, but in the few short fights I have seen onboard a ship, they never did.



AKK
I know it really isn't on the exact topic, but....if a drunk passenger assaulted a crew member while the ship was still docked in Florida, don't you think that the cruise line would call the local police to help remove the drunk? I can't imagine the brawl that would insue if they just tried to toss him off with their own security.
But, like you're saying (I think) on the other hand, maybe in that type of case, they'd send the drunk to medical until he sobered up or confine him to his room....hard to say, but it was just a scenario where the local cops might be called in for assistance.
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Old 05-24-2013, 12:46 PM   #401
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogillio View Post
Lets not assume there the Captain knew about the incident when he made the decision to leave. I met a DCL security officer on the Magic who was a retired FBI agent. I seriously doubt when GS told him of the incident he said, "Get me h Captain, I need to elevate this before we sail!" Egos being what they are in many security rent-a-cops, I'm sure he listened to the story to see if it was credible then pulled up the video and found the time they needed.....probably had to stop and go to the mandatory emergency drill....then talked to someone who could identify the perp.....at this point the mooring lines were cast off and the engines were running.

No idea if this is how it went down.....but it is plausible. So a security officer, who for all we know got fired, is the single point of failure.

The other scenario people seem to be suggesting is someone decided to intentionally drag their feet and quickly leave port so they'd be allowed to not report this and let the guy go and avoid the bad press.

I'm an armature conspiracy theorist but I can't see a plausible cover-up scenario.

I find it interesting (again) that you're coming up with all sorts of ways to not blame anyone onboard. Well, other than the dining room server pedophile, I hope.

The law is the law is the law. And whoever it was, be it Guest Services, Security, whoever....they didn't follow the law. If they had, and they'd called the local authorities, then I bet the Captain would have been notified in a big fat hurry.

And besides....Disney is all about children. I don't believe for one second that the entire crew hasn't had many, many lectures on innapropriate touching, etc, and what to do in the event that they are told by a child or parent that something has happened to their child.
Ignorance is not an excuse....and I think doubly so, in this case.
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Old 05-24-2013, 12:53 PM   #402
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I know it really isn't on the exact topic, but....if a drunk passenger assaulted a crew member while the ship was still docked in Florida, don't you think that the cruise line would call the local police to help remove the drunk? I can't imagine the brawl that would insue if they just tried to toss him off with their own security.
But, like you're saying (I think) on the other hand, maybe in that type of case, they'd send the drunk to medical until he sobered up or confine him to his room....hard to say, but it was just a scenario where the local cops might be called in for assistance.


Actually I think Disney security would likely delivery the passenger to the foot of the gangway and then the local police would take over.

This all goes back to the foreign flag thing, the laws are different on the ship itself.

What ever way it goes........the bottom line is the vessel should not have sailed until local or state or the feds investigated...........after the investigation they may not have done anything or had taken him ashore.

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Old 05-24-2013, 12:54 PM   #403
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I find it interesting (again) that you're coming up with all sorts of ways to not blame anyone onboard. Well, other than the dining room server pedophile, I hope.

The law is the law is the law. And whoever it was, be it Guest Services, Security, whoever....they didn't follow the law. If they had, and they'd called the local authorities, then I bet the Captain would have been notified in a big fat hurry.

And besides....Disney is all about children. I don't believe for one second that the entire crew hasn't had many, many lectures on innapropriate touching, etc, and what to do in the event that they are told by a child or parent that something has happened to their child.
Ignorance is not an excuse....and I think doubly so, in this case.
There was only one person who didn't follow the law, can't put it all on Disney for that one Thing till you have ALL the facts(which prob won't happen).
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Old 05-24-2013, 12:55 PM   #404
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogillio View Post
Lets not assume there the Captain knew about the incident when he made the decision to leave. I met a DCL security officer on the Magic who was a retired FBI agent. I seriously doubt when GS told him of the incident he said, "Get me h Captain, I need to elevate this before we sail!" Egos being what they are in many security rent-a-cops, I'm sure he listened to the story to see if it was credible then pulled up the video and found the time they needed.....probably had to stop and go to the mandatory emergency drill....then talked to someone who could identify the perp.....at this point the mooring lines were cast off and the engines were running.

No idea if this is how it went down.....but it is plausible. So a security officer, who for all we know got fired, is the single point of failure.

The other scenario people seem to be suggesting is someone decided to intentionally drag their feet and quickly leave port so they'd be allowed to not report this and let the guy go and avoid the bad press.

I'm an armature conspiracy theorist but I can't see a plausible cover-up scenario.
But DCL didn't have to investigate themselves - there was no reason for all of those other actions to happen (checking security tapes, talking to the girl). She (or her grandmother) made the complaint to guest services, a call to the police should have been immediate.

In my place of work, if someone claims they were assulted, we don't launch our own investigation and then call the police when we're satisfied that it actually happened. We call the police right away - it's their job to investigate if/what crime has been commited.

Once the police were onboard, they would have spoken to the girl, asked for security tapes, spoken with the suspect. None of this needed to be done prior to calling the police.

When at sea, the ships security has authority - when they are docked at a port, they do not.
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Old 05-24-2013, 12:57 PM   #405
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besides your thoughtful post this also bothers me- if a passenger got drunk and punched out a crew member before the ship sailed from Port Canaveral would DCL wait then hand him over to Bahamanian authorities?? or call the Port Canaveral police and have him hauled to jail??
Honestly, if a guest punched out a CM, they would probably simply be confined to their stateroom. I highly doubt they would be removed from the ship, definitely not arrested.


Back on topic, I don't know why people are still arguing about this, that guys story was horribly reported and he should not be held for any credible information, but DCL did exactly what they needed to do here. They were able to handle this in house and not involve police and delay departure. Since the grandmother decided to not press charges, DCL cannot do anything except fire they guy, which they did and send him home, which they are bound to do by contract.

And I am a tad confused over Jurisdiction i this case, but I believe that the Port Canaveral police would not have nay right to actually 'book' the Head Server. Because this is a crime between an Brazilian and an Indian that took place 'in the Bahamas'; If I am correct, the police can remove the guy, but he would be transferred to the Bahamian police, who would have no choose but to release him back to DCL to send him home because they didn't press charges.

All that being said, can't we all stop the arguing and take this is a learning experience? I would like to kindly point out, that one thing that girl in the video did not do, was cause a scene. Obviously it is too far to say supervise your children at all times, but remember the basic rules is one finds themselves in an 'uncomfortable situation,' make noise, get away, and let it be known that it happened. Lets stop playing the blame game and move on please. I am tired of this thread being at the top of my page...
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