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Old 05-24-2013, 07:09 AM   #361
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Originally Posted by honeymo78 View Post
So why was no one charged 9 months ago? And arguably, reasonable knowledge didn't occur until after viewing the video footage. Also that notification requirement doesn't mean calling the police, but the central abuse hotline who determines whether to forward to the police.

Until charges are filed against DCL employees, I don't think DCL did anything illegal or procedurally wrong.
Maybe they didn't have enough evidence to prosecute a specific person. The child reporting it was enough to require reporting, watching the video was not required, and the lack of charges does not mean a crime was not committed. Lots of crimes happen every day without people being charged, doesn't mean the crime didn't happen.

Since a child was clearly assaulted, the abuse hotline would have called police immediately, so that's not really relevant.
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Old 05-24-2013, 07:15 AM   #362
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Maybe they didn't have enough evidence to prosecute a specific person. The child reporting it was enough to require reporting, watching the video was not required, and the lack of charges does not mean a crime was not committed. Lots of crimes happen every day without people being charged, doesn't mean the crime didn't happen.

Since a child was clearly assaulted, the abuse hotline would have called police immediately, so that's not really relevant.
I disagree that there wasn't enough evidence for a specific person under your standards. I'm sure they could get the name of the guest services CM and security officer that took the report.

A child just saying it doesn't necessarily create actual knowledge or reasonable suspicion which is the reporting standard.
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Old 05-24-2013, 07:26 AM   #363
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Beyond the debate of what was wrong or handled inappropriately in this case...
I was just wondering if anyone on here has taken the time to write to DCL regarding their feelings on this incident?

DH and I are planning on taking our girls on The Dream in Oct. After reading this, I cannot say I don't have any reservations regarding DCL. Please, not trying to start a debate about how I love or don't love, trust or don't trust DCL any longer....

DH suggested I call DCL and talk to them about it...but I think a letter via email would be better because I wouldn't be speaking to a reservation's agent and I could keep a clear head and be succinct and precise.

That being said....has anyone else taken this route?

Would like to here how you worded your communication.
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Old 05-24-2013, 07:29 AM   #364
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Originally Posted by honeymo78 View Post
I disagree that there wasn't enough evidence for a specific person under your standards. I'm sure they could get the name of the guest services CM and security officer that took the report.

A child just saying it doesn't necessarily create actual knowledge or reasonable suspicion which is the reporting standard.
I was only speculating as to why charges were not pressed because I don't know that. I disagree with you that a 'just' a child saying it is not reason enough to report, because an 11 year old is unlikely to make that up. But even if your standard is the video, it was watched prior to sail away, making the failure to report immediately a 3rd degree felony in the state of Florida.
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Old 05-24-2013, 07:43 AM   #365
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Beyond the debate of what was wrong or handled inappropriately in this case...
I was just wondering if anyone on here has taken the time to write to DCL regarding their feelings on this incident?

DH and I are planning on taking our girls on The Dream in Oct. After reading this, I cannot say I don't have any reservations regarding DCL. Please, not trying to start a debate about how I love or don't love, trust or don't trust DCL any longer....

DH suggested I call DCL and talk to them about it...but I think a letter via email would be better because I wouldn't be speaking to a reservation's agent and I could keep a clear head and be succinct and precise.

That being said....has anyone else taken this route?

Would like to here how you worded your communication.
I think it is great to let them know how you feel. I did on the phone. I also let some friends I know that work there what I think. They are in positions to pass on that info to people that may care. From comments I see (around the internet) people have been calling and asking about background checks, child care, the incident-so maybe they will take notice. Hopefully they are not just hoping for it to go away. Disney-let people (your fans) know you care and will report these types of things in the future if you are required by law to. If not it just causes doubts that they did ignore the law or tried to keep the grandmother quiet. Hopefully it was a just a bad mistake on their part. If so-state that!
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Old 05-24-2013, 07:46 AM   #366
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Originally Posted by honeymo78

So why was no one charged 9 months ago? And arguably, reasonable knowledge didn't occur until after viewing the video footage. Also that notification requirement doesn't mean calling the police, but the central abuse hotline who determines whether to forward to the police.

Until charges are filed against DCL employees, I don't think DCL did anything illegal or procedurally wrong.
Hmmm. Let me think about this for a bit. How about:

1. DCL managed to get the CM off the boat and back to India prior to any investigation prior to returning to US.

2. Disney contributes millions of dollars in taxes to the local economy leading to the silence over the past 9 months. Now that the report was leaked, now the prosecutors need to save face.
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Old 05-24-2013, 07:53 AM   #367
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Hmmm. Let me think about this for a bit. How about:

1. DCL managed to get the CM off the boat and back to India prior to any invdatigation prior ro
I'm not talking about the server but the DCL employees that didn't call the child abuse hotline. If DCL was legally wrong in not informing the child abuse hotline when they had reasonable suspicion of sexual abuse, employes should have been charged back in Aug when FL law enforcement was informed of the situation the day after the incident occurred.

If DCL had a legal obligation to call the hotline and authorities won't prosecute, that part of the law is worthless and sends a message that no harm will come to you of you don't report.
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Old 05-24-2013, 07:56 AM   #368
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Originally Posted by honeymo78

I'm not talking about the server but the DCL employees that didn't call the child abuse hotline. If DCL was legally wrong in not informing the child abuse hotline when they had reasonable suspicion of sexual abuse, employes should have been charged back in Aug when FL law enforcement was informed of the situation the day after the incident occurred.
Sorry, I accidentally sent unfinished quote. My second thought refers to your post.
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Old 05-24-2013, 08:04 AM   #369
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Okay. Here's why no one prosecuted DCL employees for not reporting. The part requiring immediate notification when the abuse is by a non parent or non caregiver went into effect Oct 1, 2012. DCL complied with existing law at the time. Had it happened after Oct, hopefully the response would have been different.

http://www.fcasv.org/sites/default/f...une%202012.pdf


We can argue that DCLs policy should have been different, but their acts were well within what as legally required by the state of FL.
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Old 05-24-2013, 08:16 AM   #370
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Originally Posted by ash-n-brensmom View Post
Beyond the debate of what was wrong or handled inappropriately in this case...
I was just wondering if anyone on here has taken the time to write to DCL regarding their feelings on this incident?

DH and I are planning on taking our girls on The Dream in Oct. After reading this, I cannot say I don't have any reservations regarding DCL. Please, not trying to start a debate about how I love or don't love, trust or don't trust DCL any longer....

DH suggested I call DCL and talk to them about it...but I think a letter via email would be better because I wouldn't be speaking to a reservation's agent and I could keep a clear head and be succinct and precise.

That being said....has anyone else taken this route?

Would like to here how you worded your communication.
I sent them an email asking for assurances that they have addressed the failing and adjusted policy/proceedure, as we are sailing with them for the 1st time next year. So far, I've not even received the obligatory "We have received your email" email.
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Old 05-24-2013, 08:24 AM   #371
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Originally Posted by honeymo78 View Post
Okay. Here's why no one prosecuted DCL employees for not reporting. The part requiring immediate notification when the abuse is by a non parent or non caregiver went into effect Oct 1, 2012. DCL complied with existing law at the time. Had it happened after Oct, hopefully the response would have been different.

http://www.fcasv.org/sites/default/f...une%202012.pdf


We can argue that DCLs policy should have been different, but their acts were well within what as legally required by the state of FL.
Thank you for posting that. It makes me feel a little better now. I wish they would have still let the police take charge while in the US, so they could have arrested the accused and he would not be free.
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Old 05-24-2013, 08:33 AM   #372
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Someone posted this link on another board and I thought it was good info to keep up with cruise news/incidents.

http://www.internationalcruisevictims.org/
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Old 05-24-2013, 08:34 AM   #373
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Thank you for posting that. It makes me feel a little better now. I wish they would have still let the police take charge while in the US, so they could have arrested the accused and he would not be free.
DCL legitimately may have believed the man would have been charged in the Bahamas and face punishment if convicted. And there is no guarantee that the outcome would have been any different (not being free) had he been arrested in the US. We like to think that criminals are properly punished here but reality is that there may have been no prosecution at all if the victim refused to cooperate, or he may have been able to plead to a lesser charge and ended up back in India anyway.
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Old 05-24-2013, 08:56 AM   #374
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Okay. Here's why no one prosecuted DCL employees for not reporting. The part requiring immediate notification when the abuse is by a non parent or non caregiver went into effect Oct 1, 2012. DCL complied with existing law at the time. Had it happened after Oct, hopefully the response would have been different.

http://www.fcasv.org/sites/default/f...une%202012.pdf


We can argue that DCLs policy should have been different, but their acts were well within what as legally required by the state of FL.
I am getting something different from this. The way I read this statue, it regards required contact with DCF, not police. Now, granted, prior to this statue...if you suspect child abuse you were not required to call police. However, in this case the reporters were the grandmother and child. And DCL didn't have to suspect, they were told outright. The family reported to the only authorities they knew. Now, I suppose you could argue that guest services could have just told them they needed to call 911 from a ship's phone (can they do that?) But this would be the similar to saying a child from a foreign country, staying at a hotel, reports to the front desk with a family member to report alleged abuse from a hotel employee (now a report has been made to the only authority the family knows) and is told, OK the hotel will investigate it. That hotel representative needs to either 1. Call 911 him/herself or 2. Show the family how they can report the crime to the proper authorities themselves. It is not up to the hotel staff to solely investigate the validity of the girl's claim. Not in port at least.
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Old 05-24-2013, 09:07 AM   #375
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Let's not leave that fact out. It's the point when DCL Fantasy leadership may have broken the law and forever kept this girl from justice. It is possible that this decision may have driven all the questionable ones which followed. So it's kind of the 1st most important thing Disney did wrong. IMHO


Disney Fantasy??????
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