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Old 05-23-2013, 10:06 PM   #346
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Originally Posted by danfromca View Post
You know, with all the discussion of whether DCL should have called the police, or who should have called the police, and so on, I think one important point has not been mentioned:

If a report like that comes into guest services, what do you think should be DCL's absolute top #1 priority?

I would suggest, that it would be to track down the guy and make sure he has no more possibility of contact with children.

Now I'm not saying they shouldn't have called the police - but if they had waited for the police to show up to begin their investigation to identify and isolate the guy, I don't know about you - but I'd be furious. THAT would be a true betrayal of trust.

Say what you want about what they should or should not have done with the police, with the Bahamian authorities, with the guy - I would argue that DCL's immediate response - to track down and isolate the perpetrator, was exactly the right thing to do - to protect their guests from potential immediate danger.

For those who feel that their first response should have been to call the police and wait for them to deal with the situation, I must respectfully disagree.

Maybe they got a bunch of other things wrong. But from my perspective, they got the most important thing right.
Phones are portable, you call them while searching if you must...but the police are far better equipped to track and capture a suspect than ship security. When the police arrived, they could have joined the initial effort and worked in tandem to find and remove him ASAP. Regardless of what you think is right, the LAW states when a minor reports an act of sexual misconduct the local authorities are to be notified immediately. Unless that boat was 11+ miles out to sea, no one on that boat had the right to question her report or deny the proper authorities the ability to investigate the alleged crime. It's not black or white, one or the other...it's multitasking...however, such multitasking would have resulted in an actual public record & police report.
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Old 05-23-2013, 11:10 PM   #347
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You know, with all the discussion of whether DCL should have called the police, or who should have called the police, and so on, I think one important point has not been mentioned:

If a report like that comes into guest services, what do you think should be DCL's absolute top #1 priority?

I would suggest, that it would be to track down the guy and make sure he has no more possibility of contact with children.

Now I'm not saying they shouldn't have called the police - but if they had waited for the police to show up to begin their investigation to identify and isolate the guy, I don't know about you - but I'd be furious. THAT would be a true betrayal of trust.

Say what you want about what they should or should not have done with the police, with the Bahamian authorities, with the guy - I would argue that DCL's immediate response - to track down and isolate the perpetrator, was exactly the right thing to do - to protect their guests from potential immediate danger.

For those who feel that their first response should have been to call the police and wait for them to deal with the situation, I must respectfully disagree.

Maybe they got a bunch of other things wrong. But from my perspective, they got the most important thing right.
The immediate response lacked 1 important thing. A U.S. detective investigating a criminal accusation made while the ship was under U.S. jurisdiction.
No one on here said just call the police and wait. Even so, how long does it take to make a phone call to the police? 30sec? A full minute?
There is more than 1 person on the ship that could have called while security was tracking him down.
The issue for me is DCL had time to isolate the accused AND call the local authorities at the same time so this guy would have been off the ship that afternoon. It baffles me why they did not feel it necessary to involve the police immediately.
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Old 05-24-2013, 02:02 AM   #348
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And if they broke the law the FL State Attorney should filed charges. But it's not clear by any stretch of the imagination that any laws were broken.

If the law says they are required to notify local authorities they did that. Does the law specifically say you have 12 minutes to report the incident? Or within one hour? 2 hours? Call 911 upon hearing a complaint? I doubt it.
You quoted me in this response as saying they were subject to US law. I was directly responding to your comment in post 286 that they weren't. I have no idea why you includes the rest of this info.
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Old 05-24-2013, 02:08 AM   #349
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Originally Posted by danfromca View Post
You know, with all the discussion of whether DCL should have called the police, or who should have called the police, and so on, I think one important point has not been mentioned:

If a report like that comes into guest services, what do you think should be DCL's absolute top #1 priority?

I would suggest, that it would be to track down the guy and make sure he has no more possibility of contact with children.

Now I'm not saying they shouldn't have called the police - but if they had waited for the police to show up to begin their investigation to identify and isolate the guy, I don't know about you - but I'd be furious. THAT would be a true betrayal of trust.

Say what you want about what they should or should not have done with the police, with the Bahamian authorities, with the guy - I would argue that DCL's immediate response - to track down and isolate the perpetrator, was exactly the right thing to do - to protect their guests from potential immediate danger.

For those who feel that their first response should have been to call the police and wait for them to deal with the situation, I must respectfully disagree.

Maybe they got a bunch of other things wrong. But from my perspective, they got the most important thing right.
It can't really be said that they tracked him down 'immediately.' Besides the first steps would be pulling the security tapes and asking for a description and only so many people can be doing those things. Plenty of employees left to call the cops.

Someone stated that as foreign nationals the employees might not have been aware of US reporting law; if not, this is a massive failure on DCLs part, should be a vey basic part of training.
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Old 05-24-2013, 02:17 AM   #350
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Can't find it now but someone questioned what time frame DCL was required to report within; checked and the law literally says 'immediately' and it's a felony not to do so.
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Old 05-24-2013, 02:52 AM   #351
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Did DCL really do anything wrong? I'm not talking about calling the police. Lets leave that fact out for right now. Since we do know they didn't do that, but did they do the other stuff like track down the guy and keep him away from guests, talk to both victim and crew member?
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Old 05-24-2013, 02:56 AM   #352
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Well I'm not sure why we would choose to ignore a felony when trying to determine if anything is wrong, but by doing so, they turned a child predator loose and denied the child immediate psychological care she was entitled to under Florida law.

They also took on an investigation that they could have botched when there were more qualified investigators available, and took far longer than they should have to identify and isolate the perpetrator.
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Old 05-24-2013, 02:59 AM   #353
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danfromca View Post
You know, with all the discussion of whether DCL should have called the police, or who should have called the police, and so on, I think one important point has not been mentioned:

If a report like that comes into guest services, what do you think should be DCL's absolute top #1 priority?

I would suggest, that it would be to track down the guy and make sure he has no more possibility of contact with children.

Now I'm not saying they shouldn't have called the police - but if they had waited for the police to show up to begin their investigation to identify and isolate the guy, I don't know about you - but I'd be furious. THAT would be a true betrayal of trust.

Say what you want about what they should or should not have done with the police, with the Bahamian authorities, with the guy - I would argue that DCL's immediate response - to track down and isolate the perpetrator, was exactly the right thing to do - to protect their guests from potential immediate danger.

For those who feel that their first response should have been to call the police and wait for them to deal with the situation, I must respectfully disagree.

Maybe they got a bunch of other things wrong. But from my perspective, they got the most important thing right.
This is where I believe the DCL CMs also went extremely wrong. If you look at the time line from company’s own confidential incident report:

3:03 pm - reported to Guest Services
3:22 pm - Security was contacted and initiated the investigation
3:57 pm - victim led security to the spot of the incident (where the victim “appeared to be uncomfortable when she walked me to the elevator where (the crew member) touched and kissed her,” the officer wrote in her report.) Was this proper handling of the victim to take her back to the scene of her molestation, especially without a trained professional?

The security officer then retrieved and reviewed the video of the elevator lobby outside the car where the attack occurred and confirmed the actions of a uniformed crew member were consistent with the 11-year-old’s retelling of the story.

4:48 pm - the video was shown to a dining manager, who identified the suspect by name and position, a dining room server from India
5:02 pm - the Disney Dream left its berth at Port Canaveral
7:50 pm - suspect called to the security office and questioned

So it took almost 5 hours to get this man away from all the other children and passengers on the ship (including the victim!). 3 hours after he was identified! I do not consider getting that right either. I also highly doubt DCL employs anyone who has training in dealing properly with a sexual assault victim and that she received no immediate (or any) counselling.
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Old 05-24-2013, 06:12 AM   #354
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Originally Posted by DMMarla07860 View Post
Did DCL really do anything wrong? I'm not talking about calling the police. Lets leave that fact out for right now. Since we do know they didn't do that, but did they do the other stuff like track down the guy and keep him away from guests, talk to both victim and crew member?
Let's not leave that fact out. It's the point when DCL Fantasy leadership may have broken the law and forever kept this girl from justice. It is possible that this decision may have driven all the questionable ones which followed. So it's kind of the 1st most important thing Disney did wrong. IMHO
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Old 05-24-2013, 06:20 AM   #355
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Let's not leave that fact out. It's the point when DCL Fantasy leadership may have broken the law and forever kept this girl from justice. It is possible that this decision may have driven all the questionable ones which followed. So it's kind of the 1st most important thing Disney did wrong. IMHO
I'm not saying to leave it out forever. Just for a second. They found they guy and they got him off the ship they did do stuff right as well
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Old 05-24-2013, 06:27 AM   #356
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Well I'm not sure why we would choose to ignore a felony when trying to determine if anything is wrong, but by doing so, they turned a child predator loose and denied the child immediate psychological care she was entitled to under Florida law.

They also took on an investigation that they could have botched when there were more qualified investigators available, and took far longer than they should have to identify and isolate the perpetrator.
We don't know they committed a felony. FL authorities knew what happened back in Aug yet no one at DCL has been charged with failure to report. If it was a felony then, and FL is serious about enforcing this law, FL should have been happy to have a high profile company to prosecute. Maybe this is why other news outlets haven't picked it up.
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Old 05-24-2013, 06:55 AM   #357
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I'm not saying to leave it out forever. Just for a second. They found they guy and they got him off the ship they did do stuff right as well
No, they should have put him in the brig and returned to Florida with him.
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Old 05-24-2013, 06:56 AM   #358
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We don't know they committed a felony. FL authorities knew what happened back in Aug yet no one at DCL has been charged with failure to report. If it was a felony then, and FL is serious about enforcing this law, FL should have been happy to have a high profile company to prosecute. Maybe this is why other news outlets haven't picked it up.
We do know they committed a felony. It is a felony in the state of Florida, which was the jurisdiction they were in, to not report this IMMEDIATELY.
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Old 05-24-2013, 06:57 AM   #359
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We do know they committed a felony. It is a felony in the state of Florida, which was the jurisdiction they were in, to not report this IMMEDIATELY.
So why was no one charged 9 months ago? And arguably, reasonable knowledge didn't occur until after viewing the video footage. Also that notification requirement doesn't mean calling the police, but the central abuse hotline who determines whether to forward to the police.

Until charges are filed against DCL employees, I don't think DCL did anything illegal or procedurally wrong.
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Old 05-24-2013, 07:06 AM   #360
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This is where I believe the DCL CMs also went extremely wrong. If you look at the time line from company’s own confidential incident report:

3:03 pm - reported to Guest Services
3:22 pm - Security was contacted and initiated the investigation
3:57 pm - victim led security to the spot of the incident (where the victim “appeared to be uncomfortable when she walked me to the elevator where (the crew member) touched and kissed her,” the officer wrote in her report.) Was this proper handling of the victim to take her back to the scene of her molestation, especially without a trained professional?

The security officer then retrieved and reviewed the video of the elevator lobby outside the car where the attack occurred and confirmed the actions of a uniformed crew member were consistent with the 11-year-old’s retelling of the story.

4:48 pm - the video was shown to a dining manager, who identified the suspect by name and position, a dining room server from India
5:02 pm - the Disney Dream left its berth at Port Canaveral
7:50 pm - suspect called to the security office and questioned

So it took almost 5 hours to get this man away from all the other children and passengers on the ship (including the victim!). 3 hours after he was identified! I do not consider getting that right either. I also highly doubt DCL employs anyone who has training in dealing properly with a sexual assault victim and that she received no immediate (or any) counselling.
Reading this, and other posts on the timeline got me to wondering if DCL only had one policy for this type of incident, which would be when at sea, because that is where they are a very large percentage of the time. At sea I assume the ship has to do its own investigation, and then report it at the next port of call. Is it possible that the did not have procedures set up to handle the situation in a port, which would be handled very differently than at sea, and potentially different for each port of call? This truly sounds like a procedural issue, which if it was I hope that they have changed policies since.

That doesn't diminish the emotional trauma that the poor girl endured and will have to carry with her, my heart goes out to her. My DD is 15, and I hope that nothing like this ever happens to her.

The piece of this I do have a hard time with is the cover-up angle. Not that they would want to control the info, I get that any company would want to protect their image. I just have a hard time believing that they would do anything purposely to ensure that this guy went free.

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