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Old 05-23-2013, 04:58 PM   #331
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Originally Posted by Rogillio View Post

As a parent of a child who was molested my first call would be to the police.....not guest services. They reported it to DCL and Disney investigated and turned it over to athorities.
Why does it only apply if its your own child? If you were the CM would you report an accusation like this to police or hand off the responsibility to someone else? To me the choice is clear you report it first then involve your employer. You keep acting like DCL is some kind of police department and they are not.

There was more than one DCL employee that knew about it and no one thought it pertinent to involve the local authority who had jurisdiction? That is a fact and that was wrong no matter how you may try to justify it.
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Old 05-23-2013, 05:03 PM   #332
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Originally Posted by Wadekind View Post
Why does it only apply if its your own child? If you were the CM would you report an accusation like this to police or hand off the responsibility to someone else? To me the choice is clear you report it first then involve your employer. You keep acting like DCL is some kind of police department and they are not.

There was more than one DCL employee that knew about it and no one thought it pertinent to involve the local authority who had jurisdiction? That is a fact and that was wrong no matter how you may try to justify it.

Good point!
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Old 05-23-2013, 05:07 PM   #333
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Originally Posted by Rogillio View Post

After hearing about this incident, that is what I KNOW I would do. Oh course, I have the benefit of 22 pages of debate on the matter.

OTOH, had this happened at sea, they'd have no choice but to call Disney Security and trust them to handle it.
I don't know why you feel this excuses DCL from not informing the local authorities. The fact is it don't happen at sea. There was a local police force who did have jurisdiction and was not given the opportunity to do its job. The difference is at sea you have no choice but to rely on any authority you can get. In port you have access to professionals who specialize in crime and have way more experience dealing with these things daily rather than on board security who may only see a few of these cases their whole career.
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Old 05-23-2013, 05:11 PM   #334
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wadekind View Post

Why does it only apply if its your own child? If you were the CM would you report an accusation like this to police or hand off the responsibility to someone else? To me the choice is clear you report it first then involve your employer. You keep acting like DCL is some kind of police department and they are not.

There was more than one DCL employee that knew about it and no one thought it pertinent to involve the local authority who had jurisdiction? That is a fact and that was wrong no matter how you may try to justify it.
Does guest services have access to an outside line? Could the guest services CM called 911 or the police if they had wanted to? Is it possible that security and other higher departments are the only ones with that ability?
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Old 05-23-2013, 05:18 PM   #335
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Does guest services have access to an outside line? Could the guest services CM called 911 or the police if they had wanted to? Is it possible that security and other higher departments are the only ones with that ability?
OK, so why didn't one of them call? No one called and that is the fault here. If it is because of DCL policy then that needs to change if it is because of lack of training or access to an outside line then that needs to change.
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Old 05-23-2013, 06:03 PM   #336
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I have missed the last couple of pages, but have a question that I haven't seen anyone ask. This is a question not a defense of DCL. For all we know they could have already fired those that dropped the ball at the port.

The question is, since DCL employs very few US citizens, is it possible that the cm's that were investigating this did not know the US laws?

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Old 05-23-2013, 06:55 PM   #337
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The question is, since DCL employs very few US citizens, is it possible that the cm's that were investigating this did not know the US laws?

Cgolf
US laws about what?? If CMs do not know that it is illegal to molest a child, they sure as hell do not belong working for Disney!!

Which brings me to another point....considering that CMs come from all nations, how much can we rely on any background check? There are certainly countries where there is just about no such thing as a background/criminal check (India, being one). Would make me wonder just who is watching my child?
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Old 05-23-2013, 06:58 PM   #338
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If I was to take a guess I'd say the family went to guest services because they didn't know where else to go. Many travelers don't know or understand the laws when on the ocean.
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Old 05-23-2013, 07:03 PM   #339
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cgolf
I have missed the last couple of pages, but have a question that I haven't seen anyone ask. This is a question not a defense of DCL. For all we know they could have already fired those that dropped the ball at the port.

The question is, since DCL employs very few US citizens, is it possible that the cm's that were investigating this did not know the US laws?

Cgolf
I was thinking along the same lines. I would only add that this type of molestation may not be as severe as here in the US.
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Old 05-23-2013, 07:06 PM   #340
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Originally Posted by KashasMom View Post

US laws about what?? If CMs do not know that it is illegal to molest a child, they sure as hell do not belong working for Disney!!

Which brings me to another point....considering that CMs come from all nations, how much can we rely on any background check? There are certainly countries where there is just about no such thing as a background/criminal check (India, being one). Would make me wonder just who is watching my child?
About The process of reporting this to the police right away. I am not sure if that is the case in other countries. In the US as soon as someone makes the accusation the call needs to be made, not sure if the same is true elsewhere. I was unaware that in the US this can be prosecuted even if the victim doesn't want to press charges. The cm's may have not been aware of this.

Again just a ? Not a defense. I truly hope DCL changes their policies after this and a few people have lost jobs over this.

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Old 05-23-2013, 07:25 PM   #341
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I was thinking the same thing...

DCL can do background checks but something will only show if that person has a US record correct?!? Or is it an international check? Anyone know?

Last edited by flateacher; 05-23-2013 at 07:27 PM. Reason: quote didn't show... :(
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Old 05-23-2013, 08:01 PM   #342
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Originally Posted by lisaviolet View Post
Hallelujah.

Most of us don't have tapes. I thought that was just common sense.

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Oh boy. This is going to be totally off topic by me but since there are so many parents on here concerned for their children, and some who are also a tad ignorant about sexual abuse, I am going to choose to share some important insights. And I think I have some important ones. Nothing to do with the Disney and their choices - and I realize OT - but important nonetheless.

I was sexually abused by a family member for years. I have no problem typing that for three reasons:

1) I didn't do anything wrong.

2) I've had therapy around it. And have worked my _____ off to heal. And against many people who thought I "should just move on". (I tried that method - doesn't work )

3) That fact, and healing, gives me many insights to help others.

I'm almost 46 years old and I can't even explain to you how this had adversely impacted my life. So much work over the years. So much money. So much work. So many lost opportunities to live out situations normally. But it didn't have to be as much as a struggle and that's where this education I'm going to share is needed. Although I LOVE my parents with every ounce of me and know that they failed in some ways as well (can hold both)- their choices then and now and when they found out years later on added to all of it. Not said for sympathy or in anger - just said to tell you that ongoing sexual abuse is beyond the moments - they actually have proven it changes brain chemistry. Til' this day I have to *try* be conscious about how I react to certain issues - knowing that there is often an over reaction or reaction that doesn't fit the situation. But said, most importantly, to share that your reaction matters much more that you might realize.

____________________________________________

First the questioning about him being out in the open by a couple of posters:

* some pedophiles like that thrill of being almost seen and not caught - part of their thrill.

_________

The grandmother:

*Maybe, who knows, she has a basis/history not to go another step through the legal system in her own country and transferred it. I know I now do - sighing loudly. Despite three different charges/three different people - my uncle still walks free or maybe he's left the earth (one would hope for others' safety) - and the court cases and dealing with police, in my case only, have done little to make one feel empowered. So difficult choices there - not black and white.

________

Her not screaming - even if you were just talking about confinement/stopping her from moving - people questioning kidnapping charges:

*many victims *go somewhere* in their head
* SHOCK - plain and simple - think about your own life where someone has said something to you or did something on a much smaller scale and you went somewhere and didn't react. And she's being touched and kissed by a stranger (no need to keep looking at the tape - she said so, correct?

___________

The "she wasn't raped" and "I've seen worse" and around the seriousness of the issue and "hitting on a girl" comment:

*I don't even know where to begin. No she wasn't raped by definition. But I can't even find words to explain how all of that is incredibly offensive to openly state. I know you didn't mean to be - I know - I fully understand that but it's offensive nonetheless. And you need to hear that - it will bring on some thought and insight about a crime going forward.


_______________________________________

TO THE PARENTS ON HERE:

Parents, here is the best piece of advice I can give you. You can't control everything. Obviously. There are many people who are sexually abused. And despite every good action and protection and thought it could happen to someone you love regardless. It could. I know that's an absolutely horrific thought. I don't say that for fear - I say that so that you're ready to deal if it ever happens. The absolute BEST thing you can do is immediately explain to your child a few things - IMMEDIATELY:

*but first make sure you're as calm and clear and present as you can be - I know easier said than done, I know - try as hard as you can knowing that you're filled with a myriad of emotions.

*Tell them that you are so sorry that you're weren't there to protect them. No matter how much you feel like you couldn't. Don't go on and on about how you didn't know or why you couldn't. Be clear, concise and firm but calm. Tell them that you are so sorry that you're weren't there. Repeat that more than once. So that that's the words that stay in their brain and are heard.

*Tell them that you love them

*Tell them that what happened has nothing to do with them at all. NOTHING. Make it crystal clear. It was has to do with the person that did that - they are wrong. They are ill. Calling the person a monster, devil doesn't really help the situation IMO.

*Do not quiz them about penetration and act like that's a baseline for harm.

*Do not go on about how YOU have been affected by it all. It's secondary.

If it happens once by a stranger - monitor whether it needs to be dealt with by a professional. It might be best to treat it as it is - a person who is ill and doesn't have to do with you (the child) at all. Look after it without drama. Goldie Hawn has stated that she was sexually abused by someone - her mother came in quickly - told her that she wasn't to blame and that it had nothing to do with her. I'm insinuating that there *might* be an opportunity to heal some of it instantly and not have it affect the child's life in moving forward. Plus, I have a friend where it was a one time only - where her mother immediately went after the person and she felt fine as an adult and couldn't understand any of my struggles. So if taken care of versus ongoing - years on end - loved one as pedophile can be completely different situations and more importantly outcome for life.

If it has been ongoing - and too if it is by someone the child LOVED - there are repercussions that you as a parent can not fully take in or truly understand or even sometimes acknowledge if you have never been there. Accept that no matter how vulnerable you feel or how uncomfortable that is or what you *think* you understand. You don't. It affects a child's brain - they have proven that -the flight or fight response. And therapy can help.


Never let any guilt you might feel, for not being there or not seeing it (Pedophiles are beyond skilled at what they do and unlike this situation those abused often love their abusers), stop you from doing your job as a parent. Be conscious that guilt can harm the healing process for everyone. And if you have been abused yourself and not taken care of it try to be conscious that this might harm the healing of your child as well.

And if this has happened and you haven't reacted well - don't let that stop you now - DON'T - you're not perfect - go back, apologize and do it better. That will help.

Okay, OT obviously but great opportunity to educate. If it ends up helping one person I would be very happy.

Lisa
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Old 05-23-2013, 08:12 PM   #343
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Originally Posted by KashasMom View Post
US laws about what?? If CMs do not know that it is illegal to molest a child, they sure as hell do not belong working for Disney!!

Which brings me to another point....considering that CMs come from all nations, how much can we rely on any background check? There are certainly countries where there is just about no such thing as a background/criminal check (India, being one). Would make me wonder just who is watching my child?
I also thought about the laws and about the places where the cast member and this girl live. In India - that girl would be of age to be married if her family so chose to (from things I have read - no direct source just history channel things and articles I have read about customs - I know how frantic people get on here when you can't give the exact date and time that you read a piece of information) - so it could be a miss understanding of laws - BUT - you are right - if they work for Disney - a company based in the US then the employees should certainly follow US laws! And they also should be prosecuted under US laws if the crime occurred while in the US.
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Old 05-23-2013, 09:35 PM   #344
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You know, with all the discussion of whether DCL should have called the police, or who should have called the police, and so on, I think one important point has not been mentioned:

If a report like that comes into guest services, what do you think should be DCL's absolute top #1 priority?

I would suggest, that it would be to track down the guy and make sure he has no more possibility of contact with children.

Now I'm not saying they shouldn't have called the police - but if they had waited for the police to show up to begin their investigation to identify and isolate the guy, I don't know about you - but I'd be furious. THAT would be a true betrayal of trust.

Say what you want about what they should or should not have done with the police, with the Bahamian authorities, with the guy - I would argue that DCL's immediate response - to track down and isolate the perpetrator, was exactly the right thing to do - to protect their guests from potential immediate danger.

For those who feel that their first response should have been to call the police and wait for them to deal with the situation, I must respectfully disagree.

Maybe they got a bunch of other things wrong. But from my perspective, they got the most important thing right.
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Old 05-23-2013, 09:51 PM   #345
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I agree... thank you very much. Your post was extremely helpful to me as a parent!
I'm so very pleased. Thank you. To everyone that the post helped and to those who commented and added insights- .

It has occurred to me over the years that we spend so much time and education on possible prevention - which is of course needed but such little time on appropriate reaction - which I feel is crucial.

And no one's will be perfect, for sure. But I just wanted parents to know that it can absolutely make a difference in healing and how the child even views that moment. You have that power - you have that control - it's not in the hands of a pedophile; especially if it's a one time occurrence - not belittling that at all - just has more of a chance to be less meaningful in the scheme of life - because of you. I don't want anyone to feel that they're helpless to help their child if, heaven forbid, it ever happens to you.

And I certainly don't want anyone to make the mistakes of past generations. You really are an important key to a better chance of it not infiltrating their lives. They will look to your reaction as the one that matters - way beyond anyone else involved.
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