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Old 05-23-2013, 12:16 PM   #301
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Originally Posted by justmestace View Post
YAY!!! We finally agree on something!!!

This is exactly what I said when the Captain of the Concordia rammed the ship into the rocks. Everyone on the DIS was slamming Carnival, saying how terrible they are, blah blah blah.....but, as you're saying, it's wasn't Carnival's fault...it was just a bad decision made by one person!
(And in fact, in that case, that one person did the same thing many, many other Captains had done in the past, without incident....he just "miscalculated", right?)


Let's try not to let that happen again.
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Old 05-23-2013, 12:19 PM   #302
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Let's try not to let that happen again.




Did you see the link I left for you on your other thread? Trying to be a helpful neighbor!!
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Old 05-23-2013, 12:22 PM   #303
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Did you see the link I left for you on your other thread? Trying to be a helpful neighbor!!
I did. Thanks!
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Old 05-23-2013, 12:54 PM   #304
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The only fact anyone needs to know before calling authorities in the case of child molestation in Florida is that a child says someone did it.
Hallelujah.

Most of us don't have tapes. I thought that was just common sense.

________________________________________________

Oh boy. This is going to be totally off topic by me but since there are so many parents on here concerned for their children, and some who are also a tad ignorant about sexual abuse, I am going to choose to share some important insights. And I think I have some important ones. Nothing to do with the Disney and their choices - and I realize OT - but important nonetheless.

I was sexually abused by a family member for years. I have no problem typing that for three reasons:

1) I didn't do anything wrong.

2) I've had therapy around it. And have worked my _____ off to heal. And against many people who thought I "should just move on". (I tried that method - doesn't work )

3) That fact, and healing, gives me many insights to help others.

I'm almost 46 years old and I can't even explain to you how this had adversely impacted my life. So much work over the years. So much money. So much work. So many lost opportunities to live out situations normally. But it didn't have to be as much as a struggle and that's where this education I'm going to share is needed. Although I LOVE my parents with every ounce of me and know that they failed in some ways as well (can hold both)- their choices then and now and when they found out years later on added to all of it. Not said for sympathy or in anger - just said to tell you that ongoing sexual abuse is beyond the moments - they actually have proven it changes brain chemistry. Til' this day I have to *try* be conscious about how I react to certain issues - knowing that there is often an over reaction or reaction that doesn't fit the situation. But said, most importantly, to share that your reaction matters much more that you might realize.

____________________________________________

First the questioning about him being out in the open by a couple of posters:

* some pedophiles like that thrill of being almost seen and not caught - part of their thrill.

_________

The grandmother:

*Maybe, who knows, she has a basis/history not to go another step through the legal system in her own country and transferred it. I know I now do - sighing loudly. Despite three different charges/three different people - my uncle still walks free or maybe he's left the earth (one would hope for others' safety) - and the court cases and dealing with police, in my case only, have done little to make one feel empowered. So difficult choices there - not black and white.

________

Her not screaming - even if you were just talking about confinement/stopping her from moving - people questioning kidnapping charges:

*many victims *go somewhere* in their head
* SHOCK - plain and simple - think about your own life where someone has said something to you or did something on a much smaller scale and you went somewhere and didn't react. And she's being touched and kissed by a stranger (no need to keep looking at the tape - she said so, correct?

___________

The "she wasn't raped" and "I've seen worse" and around the seriousness of the issue and "hitting on a girl" comment:

*I don't even know where to begin. No she wasn't raped by definition. But I can't even find words to explain how all of that is incredibly offensive to openly state. I know you didn't mean to be - I know - I fully understand that but it's offensive nonetheless. And you need to hear that - it will bring on some thought and insight about a crime going forward.


_______________________________________

TO THE PARENTS ON HERE:

Parents, here is the best piece of advice I can give you. You can't control everything. Obviously. There are many people who are sexually abused. And despite every good action and protection and thought it could happen to someone you love regardless. It could. I know that's an absolutely horrific thought. I don't say that for fear - I say that so that you're ready to deal if it ever happens. The absolute BEST thing you can do is immediately explain to your child a few things - IMMEDIATELY:

*but first make sure you're as calm and clear and present as you can be - I know easier said than done, I know - try as hard as you can knowing that you're filled with a myriad of emotions.

*Tell them that you are so sorry that you're weren't there to protect them. No matter how much you feel like you couldn't. Don't go on and on about how you didn't know or why you couldn't. Be clear, concise and firm but calm. Tell them that you are so sorry that you're weren't there. Repeat that more than once. So that that's the words that stay in their brain and are heard.

*Tell them that you love them

*Tell them that what happened has nothing to do with them at all. NOTHING. Make it crystal clear. It was has to do with the person that did that - they are wrong. They are ill. Calling the person a monster, devil doesn't really help the situation IMO.

*Do not quiz them about penetration and act like that's a baseline for harm.

*Do not go on about how YOU have been affected by it all. It's secondary.

If it happens once by a stranger - monitor whether it needs to be dealt with by a professional. It might be best to treat it as it is - a person who is ill and doesn't have to do with you (the child) at all. Look after it without drama. Goldie Hawn has stated that she was sexually abused by someone - her mother came in quickly - told her that she wasn't to blame and that it had nothing to do with her. I'm insinuating that there *might* be an opportunity to heal some of it instantly and not have it affect the child's life in moving forward. Plus, I have a friend where it was a one time only - where her mother immediately went after the person and she felt fine as an adult and couldn't understand any of my struggles. So if taken care of versus ongoing - years on end - loved one as pedophile can be completely different situations and more importantly outcome for life.

If it has been ongoing - and too if it is by someone the child LOVED - there are repercussions that you as a parent can not fully take in or truly understand or even sometimes acknowledge if you have never been there. Accept that no matter how vulnerable you feel or how uncomfortable that is or what you *think* you understand. You don't. It affects a child's brain - they have proven that -the flight or fight response. And therapy can help.


Never let any guilt you might feel, for not being there or not seeing it (Pedophiles are beyond skilled at what they do and unlike this situation those abused often love their abusers), stop you from doing your job as a parent. Be conscious that guilt can harm the healing process for everyone. And if you have been abused yourself and not taken care of it try to be conscious that this might harm the healing of your child as well.

And if this has happened and you haven't reacted well - don't let that stop you now - DON'T - you're not perfect - go back, apologize and do it better. That will help.

Okay, OT obviously but great opportunity to educate. If it ends up helping one person I would be very happy.

Lisa
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Old 05-23-2013, 01:03 PM   #305
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Originally Posted by lisaviolet View Post

Okay, OT obviously but great opportunity to educate. If it ends up helping one person I would be very happy.

Lisa

Thank you....this was SO well stated and so thoughtful and insightful. Not off topic at all, in fact, it's spot on.
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Old 05-23-2013, 01:35 PM   #306
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And if they broke the law the FL State Attorney should filed charges. But it's not clear by any stretch of the imagination that any laws were broken.

If the law says they are required to notify local authorities they did that. Does the law specifically say you have 12 minutes to report the incident? Or within one hour? 2 hours? Call 911 upon hearing a complaint? I doubt it.
Really? This is the same logic others used that allowed the Sandusky abuse to continue for years. You seem to have more concern about defending the company than the girl even to the point of debating the technicalities of the law like this is some classroom exercise.
The simple fact is a crime was reported in US jurisdiction and DCL did not report it to the local authorities until it was too late for them to take action.
I can honestly say if I were in a position where someone reported a crime to me, my first call would be to the police, then to my supervisor. I would have no thoughts on if I technically should report it or if law says I have to report it right away.
What I really disagree with in all of your posts is that you want to have some theoretical debate on the law and are ignoring the fact that if the Bahamian confession is true (or allegedly true because DCL did not give our police the chance to find out.), there is a real child dealing with this right now and for the rest of her life while her attacker may be roaming free because of the actions of DCL.
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Old 05-23-2013, 01:45 PM   #307
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Originally Posted by Rogillio View Post
...
And this is what bugs me about the DCL incident. Surely all Disney CMs know there are cameras all over the ship. This guy had to of know he was being video taped. Was he that stupid to think he could do this and not get caught?! Maybe he was on drugs or something. ...

All the 'data' comes from a single news source. I would really like to see some independant investigative jouralism. But so far, no one has picked up
He wasn't stupid. He probably has been a perp for a while and knows the vast majority of girls would be humiliated and not tell anyone about the event. By experience. It's really sad. Time to educate and empower our girls. One out of four in the US will experience some kind of sexual abuse.

As for the journalism, YES please someone take this on.

DH and I discussed this last night (he heard me typing like a fiend and asked why.) WHO got ahold of this video and story???? There has to be a whistleblower on the Dream who was (IMHO brilliant) horrified by the actions of DCL and gave this to the media. Whoever you are, I applaud you!!!

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Originally Posted by gunka View Post
I hardly think it's a "cover up". "Cover Ups" take days/hours to happen, this crime occurred as the ship was preparing to depart port. The ship reported the crime to the authorities in both ports.

It amazes me that this one crime, which has to represent less than .01% of the normal cruise experience, can be blown up the way it is being on this thread.
It's 100% to this little girl. And ONE out of FOUR nationwide in life. Not a small figure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lisaviolet View Post
Okay, OT obviously but great opportunity to educate. If it ends up helping one person I would be very happy.

Lisa
Lisa, thank you for your insights and yes, I am sure you have helped at least one person. Keep healing and educating as much as you can. Many people will have read this thread and you will have gotten through to some!! Very brave you are!
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Old 05-23-2013, 01:57 PM   #308
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Thank you

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Originally Posted by justmestace View Post
Thank you....this was SO well stated and so thoughtful and insightful. Not off topic at all, in fact, it's spot on.
I agree... thank you very much. Your post was extremely helpful to me as a parent!
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Old 05-23-2013, 02:01 PM   #309
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Lisa, thank you for your thought provoking and hopefully eye-opening post.

One thing I want to add is for anyone who is told by a child that something "happened" to them (I did a lot of reading since this started.)

Always believe the child and make them feel that you believe them. Never question what they are telling you! Professionals know better how to ask the right kinds of questions so as to minimize any more trauma to the victim (at least we can hope they are properly trained) while finding out what did and didn't happen.

If you think about it, not only did the CMs on the Dream fail to contact local authorities in a timely manner, but they failed to get this child immediate professional help while they had the opportunity. I hope she is healing.
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Old 05-23-2013, 02:03 PM   #310
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Really? This is the same logic others used that allowed the Sandusky abuse to continue for years. You seem to have more concern about defending the company than the girl even to the point of debating the technicalities of the law like this is some classroom exercise.
The simple fact is a crime was reported in US jurisdiction and DCL did not report it to the local authorities until it was too late for them to take action.
I can honestly say if I were in a position where someone reported a crime to me, my first call would be to the police, then to my supervisor. I would have no thoughts on if I technically should report it or if law says I have to report it right away.
What I really disagree with in all of your posts is that you want to have some theoretical debate on the law and are ignoring the fact that if the Bahamian confession is true (or allegedly true because DCL did not give our police the chance to find out.), there is a real child dealing with this right now and for the rest of her life while her attacker may be roaming free because of the actions of DCL.
You and many others are posting with your emotions. I ahve tried to be objective and dispassionate citing what is known and what is not known. I have posted many times that it is possible that people on DCL may have made a mistake in the way this was handled. But the anger needs to be directed at the offender not the way DCL security handled it. It was OJ that killed those two people and while you can question the way the prosecution was handled, it was OJ that commited the crime. BTW, you have no idea what he confessed to in the Bahamas....only speculation and assumption.
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Old 05-23-2013, 02:08 PM   #311
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Really? This is the same logic others used that allowed the Sandusky abuse to continue for years. You seem to have more concern about defending the company than the girl even to the point of debating the technicalities of the law like this is some classroom exercise.
The simple fact is a crime was reported in US jurisdiction and DCL did not report it to the local authorities until it was too late for them to take action.
I can honestly say if I were in a position where someone reported a crime to me, my first call would be to the police, then to my supervisor. I would have no thoughts on if I technically should report it or if law says I have to report it right away.
What I really disagree with in all of your posts is that you want to have some theoretical debate on the law and are ignoring the fact that if the Bahamian confession is true (or allegedly true because DCL did not give our police the chance to find out.), there is a real child dealing with this right now and for the rest of her life while her attacker may be roaming free because of the actions of DCL.

As a parent of a child who was molested my first call would be to the police.....not guest services. They reported it to DCL and Disney investigated and turned it over to athorities.
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Old 05-23-2013, 02:14 PM   #312
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You and many others are posting with your emotions. I ahve tried to be objective and dispassionate citing what is known and what is not known. I have posted many times that it is possible that people on DCL may have made a mistake in the way this was handled. But the anger needs to be directed at the offender not the way DCL security handled it. It was OJ that killed those two people and while you can question the way the prosecution was handled, it was OJ that commited the crime. BTW, you have no idea what he confessed to in the Bahamas....only speculation and assumption.
As has been posted before

...He eventually confessed to Bahamian authorities on Aug. 7 that he "touched her on her right breast with my left hand," according to a statement.

The quotes indicate to what he confessed. However, the laws in the Bahamas don't protect children the way we do. In order to prosecute there the guardian would have to request charges be filed. So, post confession, Disney released him of his position and purchased a ticket for him to India (per their employment contract), and (from other reports I've read) drove him to the airport. Once home, there would be no legal reason for Indian authorities to detain or charge him with anything.
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Old 05-23-2013, 02:16 PM   #313
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As has been posted before

...He eventually confessed to Bahamian authorities on Aug. 7 that he "touched her on her right breast with my left hand," according to a statement.

The quotes indicate to what he confessed. However, the laws in the Bahamas don't protect children the way we do. In order to prosecute there the guardian would have to request charges be filed. So, post confession, Disney released him of his position and purchased a ticket for him to India (per their employment contract), and (from other reports I've read) drove him to the airport. Once home, there would be no legal reason for Indian authorities to detain or charge him with anything.
FWIW, these are all facts, no emotion included.
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Old 05-23-2013, 02:19 PM   #314
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhorsley View Post
As has been posted before

...He eventually confessed to Bahamian authorities on Aug. 7 that he "touched her on her right breast with my left hand," according to a statement.

The quotes indicate to what he confessed. However, the laws in the Bahamas don't protect children the way we do. In order to prosecute there the guardian would have to request charges be filed. So, post confession, Disney released him of his position and purchased a ticket for him to India (per their employment contract), and (from other reports I've read) drove him to the airport. Once home, there would be no legal reason for Indian authorities to detain or charge him with anything.
so he confessed to touching her breast? Did you confuse to kissing her? Like it said in the video? Sorry not following this much, cnn stuff last night was much better to follow
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Old 05-23-2013, 02:25 PM   #315
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhorsley View Post
As has been posted before

...He eventually confessed to Bahamian authorities on Aug. 7 that he "touched her on her right breast with my left hand," according to a statement.

The quotes indicate to what he confessed. However, the laws in the Bahamas don't protect children the way we do. In order to prosecute there the guardian would have to request charges be filed. So, post confession, Disney released him of his position and purchased a ticket for him to India (per their employment contract), and (from other reports I've read) drove him to the airport. Once home, there would be no legal reason for Indian authorities to detain or charge him with anything.
Unless you've read the confession you are picking and choosing data to fit what you believe. What is the rest of the quote? Maybe is was "As she was getting on the elevator I accidetnly touched her on her right breast with my left hand." I admit this might be a stretch but the point is, we don't know what he confessed to. The entire incident is based on one news reporter's story. Believe it or not, some jouralist have been known to take things out of context to suppor the story they are trying to make. This happened on the natinal scene several times recently with NBC News blatenly editing tapes to completely change the meaning of what was said.

Again, one or more Disney employees may have mishandled this but there is not enough data to draw that conclusion.
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