DVC RESALES
DVC RESALES

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Old 05-19-2013, 02:39 PM   #16
nd43
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Originally Posted by dcfromva View Post
As a direct buyer, I am grateful for a robust resale market. Without it, I would not have bought direct, so it is all good.
I agree. That is why this was no slam against resale. Just a simple thanks for those buying direct.
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Old 05-19-2013, 02:44 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by BTSD View Post
If people don't have the intellect to do their research before spending their hard earned money, it is on them.
This is, unfortunately, the exact "spirit" of the problem for certain people that buy resale and post around here. They appear to think they must be smarter then everyone else that purchased direct. It is just sad. People who buy direct created the DVC system you now enjoy. The least you could do is not insult them. That is not asking a lot. You can be happy with your decision but do you need to insult other people to feel better about it?
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Old 05-19-2013, 02:53 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by ELMC View Post
I think there is a significant difference between buying direct at opening prices and buying direct at Disney's current (and ridiculously overinflated) prices.
In terms of possible financial return, I completely agree. However, that was not my goal for saying "thanks".

In terms of contributing to the future of DVC, it is all the direct buyers from opening to sell out that are important. If Disney could not "sell out" a resort, they would not continue to build new resorts. They needed all the direct buyers to make that happen.
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Old 05-19-2013, 02:53 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by nd43 View Post
This is, unfortunately, the exact "spirit" of the problem for certain people that buy resale and post around here. They appear to think they must be smarter then everyone else that purchased direct. It is just sad. People who buy direct created the DVC system you now enjoy. The least you could do is not insult them. That is not asking a lot. You can be happy with your decision but do you need to insult other people to feel better about it?
While I understand where you are coming from, I don't think you have the necessary perspective to make these observations. You've only been on here a month. I think you need to give it some time to get a feel for the landscape before making sweeping judgments about the discourse that occurs on here.

One other thing, while I see the intent of your thread, it could also be interpreted another way. If one wanted to, they could read it as if you were thanking everyone for overpaying by buying direct so that we can get good prices on the resale market when they realize what a mistake they made. It's sort of like a thank you to everyone who overpaid by buying the last 5% of BLT at $165 a point because if they didn't, then we wouldn't have the opportunity to buy at initial prices at a new resort. Intended or not, that's kind of what you are saying.
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Old 05-19-2013, 03:04 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by nd43 View Post
This is, unfortunately, the exact "spirit" of the problem for certain people that buy resale and post around here. They appear to think they must be smarter then everyone else that purchased direct. It is just sad. People who buy direct created the DVC system you now enjoy. The least you could do is not insult them. That is not asking a lot. You can be happy with your decision but do you need to insult other people to feel better about it?
IMO no one means to insult anyone. Many of us have purchased direct and resale over the years depending on several factors and I say that owning 26 contracts.

Yes direct sales feeds the Disney pocket book and causes Disney to build additional resorts but my goal is to let people know that direct isn't the only way to buy and that some of the info presented by Disney isn't necessarily in the best interest of the buyer.

When buying, the $5,000 to $10,000 cost difference between resale and direct can be the deciding factor between buying or not buying. Disney makes more money on locking in long term Disney vacationers than they do selling timeshares. If Disney wanted to stop all resales, all they would have to do is ROFR every contract.

In addition Disney supports resale and has a business relationship with Fidelity a resale broker.

Bill
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Old 05-19-2013, 03:08 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by ELMC View Post
While I understand where you are coming from, I don't think you have the necessary perspective to make these observations. You've only been on here a month. I think you need to give it some time to get a feel for the landscape before making sweeping judgments about the discourse that occurs on here..
I actually do not think I need more then a month to know when I am being insulted. For instance, when someone stats if you lack the intellect to know to buy resale it is your problem, it took me only a few seconds to figure out it was not a compliment to those buying direct.

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Originally Posted by ELMC View Post
One other thing, while I see the intent of your thread, it could also be interpreted another way. If one wanted to, they could read it as if you were thanking everyone for overpaying by buying direct so that we can get good prices on the resale market when they realize what a mistake they made. Because that's kind of what you are saying, whether you mean it or not.
ELMC, how you could read a "thank you" as saying this is beyond me. However, I give you credit for a highly creative reading of someone just saying "thank you for making DVC better".

Last edited by nd43; 05-19-2013 at 03:10 PM. Reason: type
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Old 05-19-2013, 03:11 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by nd43 View Post
This is, unfortunately, the exact "spirit" of the problem for certain people that buy resale and post around here. They appear to think they must be smarter then everyone else that purchased direct. It is just sad. People who buy direct created the DVC system you now enjoy. The least you could do is not insult them. That is not asking a lot. You can be happy with your decision but do you need to insult other people to feel better about it?
I have bought both direct (my initial purchase) and later resale, so please don't insult me. The initial comment which was stated previously made it sound that we should feel sorry for the people buying direct because their salesperson didn't mention the resale market. My comment was questioning why we should feel sorry for anyone - whether buying direct or resale, everyone makes the decision based on what is best for them at that particular time.
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Old 05-19-2013, 03:25 PM   #23
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[COLOR="Blue"]IMO no one means to insult anyone.
Honestly, many of you say this a lot in this section of the forum. If you find yourself typing & reading this over and over, perhaps you should consider the fact you might actually be insulting people? The very people making DVC better for everyone. I just find it sad.

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Originally Posted by disneynutz View Post
Disney makes more money on locking in long term Disney vacationers than they do selling timeshares. If Disney wanted to stop all resales, all they would have to do is ROFR every contract.
My point was really simple. Without direct, DVC has no future resorts and everyone suffers. I am just thanking them for making DVC better for everyone. This is not an attack on resale buyers, it is a recognition that people that buy direct play an invaluable role in keeping DVC vibrant. I think that deserves some appreciation.
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Old 05-19-2013, 03:36 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by BTSD View Post
I have bought both direct (my initial purchase) and later resale, so please don't insult me. The initial comment which was stated previously made it sound that we should feel sorry for the people buying direct because their salesperson didn't mention the resale market. My comment was questioning why we should feel sorry for anyone - whether buying direct or resale, everyone makes the decision based on what is best for them at that particular time.
Fully understand in context. Sorry for my misread. It is unfortunate because it was not in the spirit of my OP. Unfortunately, I allowed this misread to take this whole thing down a bad path which was not intended or desired.

I honestly just wanted people who buy direct to know they are building a better DVC even if all the various threads around here can make you say "oh god, did I make a mistake". No one likes that feeling. Yet, these people play a huge role in making DVC better.
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Old 05-19-2013, 03:56 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by nd43 View Post
Honestly, many of you say this a lot in this section of the forum. If you find yourself typing & reading this over and over, perhaps you should consider the fact you might actually be insulting people? The very people making DVC better for everyone. I just find it sad.

My point was really simple. Without direct, DVC has no future resorts and everyone suffers. I am just thanking them for making DVC better for everyone. This is not an attack on resale buyers, it is a recognition that people that buy direct play an invaluable role in keeping DVC vibrant. I think that deserves some appreciation.
I don't see how buying direct makes DVC better for everyone. I liked it better when it had fewer resorts. It was easier getting a reservation. With more members, the more popular times just get harder and harder to get. I'd really like to go back to the DVC of pre-2003.

One thing I do see with the present DVC is slimier sales people who tell potential members a lot of not so true "facts". Back in the late 1990's, the smaller sales force had a lot more reputable salespeople.

Jim Lewis didn't do a lot of great things for DVC (but more for Jim Lewis until his rapid descent downwards), Claire Bilbey seemed to be a little more pro-member. Still not sure where the new guy stands.

Your comment about keeping DVC vibrant? Not sure what you mean by that.
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Old 05-19-2013, 04:06 PM   #26
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We purchased our first contract direct in 2008, for lack of a substantial amount of cash and a desire to start using DVC right away. Since learning about the resale market in 2011, all of my subsequent purchases have been resale (and any future purchases will be, as well, unless something drastic occurs). I wouldn't change our decision to buy direct in 2008. But the reality is that DVC pricing has gotten ridiculous.

I am not so sure about direct purchasers making DVC better for everyone. Yes, it's nice to try out new resorts, but keep in mind that every new DVC member added to the ranks is someone else who will be competing with the rest of us for that coveted reservation at the 7 month mark. Think about how thankful you are the next time someone who owns at Aulani scoops you for BCV or BLT during the holidays or F&W. Frankly, we bought DVC to stay at WDW. I couldn't care less if they ever build another offsite location.

So, while direct purchasers are needed for the sustenance of DVC building new resorts, it does not necessarily make DVC better for all of us.
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Old 05-19-2013, 04:13 PM   #27
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Personally, I don't agree with this, and I hope they don't. The fact that DVC was able to recently raise prices on direct points strongly suggests that there is no such "need" to provide additional benefits. People are already willing to pay, for whatever reasons. The DVC business appears to be extremely healthy. If that does become a need, I have no doubt that Disney would be the first to know and that something would result out of it. But there will be drawbacks to creating a "second-class citizen" segment of customers, so hopefully they would take that into account before doing anything as well. I'm guessing that they do, and this is why they have done relatively little to distinguish between direct and resale purchasers.
I personally am not in favor of placing further restrictions on resale contracts because I believe it hurts everyone (most direct buyers eventually will sell). I also think it is a poor business strategy, however, others with more timeshare experience believe this is a common response by companies to widening resale issues. I hope Disney is more creative but others with more experience offer little hope.

If Disney wants direct to pay a substantial premium over resale (and they want to keep jacking up direct prices), I believe direct buyers deserve more perks. I think by adding benefits (vs. taking them away), it is the fairest & best way to handle the complete system while living with a widening delta between resale and direct. Again, no one is calling me for my opinion, I am not a timeshare guru, I am just buying direct and it would be my personal hope.

As a resale buyer, I would think others would like to see direct also get better incentives, again, to support the future growth of DVC that everyone will get to enjoy. It is a "win win" to me. Resale buyers save a lot of upfront money for a very complete and usable product and direct buyers get a few more perks for their higher investment. Again, many with more experience have made it clear this was a pipedream and Disney could care less (which I understand). It just happens to be my pipedream.
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Old 05-19-2013, 04:24 PM   #28
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I think newbies come on the threads, me included, and ask for honest opinions. If not for these I would have never known about resale. I was talking to a guide for direct sales and resale was never brought up. I have an aunt who bought direct. I asked them if she ever sold hers to me, would that work out. She told me we would lose so many perks. After reading these so called "perks" I realized I would never use any of them. So that is when resale, from a money perspective, became our way to go. It was a matter of not having to finance or financing because of the huge price difference. That is not calling anyone else ignorant.
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Old 05-19-2013, 04:29 PM   #29
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I don't see how buying direct makes DVC better for everyone. I liked it better when it had fewer resorts. It was easier getting a reservation. With more members, the more popular times just get harder and harder to get. I'd really like to go back to the DVC of pre-2003.

Your comment about keeping DVC vibrant? Not sure what you mean by that.
I agree, if you prefer DVC never build a new resort or sign up a new member that will now compete for your resort, my "thanks" is highly misplaced.

Vibrant was a way of saying DVC would grow and prosper in the future. Again, growth being something I would consider positive but clearly others do not.
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Old 05-19-2013, 04:30 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by nd43 View Post
Given the amount of energy spent on this board telling people to buy resale, I thought I would point out an obvious fact for those that have purchased direct or might purchase direct in the future. This is not a slap against our resale pushing friends, it is just a more balanced post for others that browse here.
Not really "fair and balanced," just a different point of view. And that's a good thing. Differences of opinions are what discussion groups are all about.

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Your (direct) purchase is what makes DVC work and is the fuel that will make DVC better in the future.
Better for Disney stockholders, yes.

Better for DVC owners? Maybe yes, maybe no -- and irrelevent to the decision-makers whose fiduciary responsibility is to serve the interests of Disney stockholders...as it should be.

Disney management's responsibility (both fiduciary and ethical) is to increase the bottom line. Nothing sinister in that; it's called "capitalism," and it's a good thing.

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Everyone benefits when Disney opens new resorts.
Like most broad generalities, this one is too simplistic to be correct. Many DVC owners were adversely affected by the building of two large resorts where many people purchased without really intending to stay there -- SSR and AKV. I remember the talk about dilution of ownership benefits, 7-month booking difficulties caused by those two resorts, etc.

To the degree that DVD can get Aulani rolling in the Asian market -- and those people use their Aulani points to book at WDW -- the same will be true with Aulani. We usually look at Aulani from the perspective of American or Canadian owners living on the West Coast, but the primary market for Aulani has always been China, Korea, and Japan.

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...I hope Disney comes up with new ways to make that decision even better. As the spread between resale and direct has widened, the need for more benefits for buying direct appear needed IMO.
I disagree. First of all, I think only a small percentage of potential DVC direct purchasers even know a resale marketplace exists. If they know anything, they know only what a timeshare salesman told them -- that there is somehow a resale marketplace that protects their "investment," but that all resale points are BAD and/or useless!

Not all resale purchasers are smart people. I certainly was not. I took a tour, wanted more information and therefore Googled DVC to find their website to research more detailed information.

I ended up here on the DIS -- unfortunately for my "guide," fortunately for my family.

I purchased my first contract resale, the second direct. But that was in 2005 when there were only a few dollars difference in price. That was then, this is now -- but still very few prospective DVC purchasers have any clue about resale.

In that environment, there is no need to offer "more" to first-time buyers.

There might be some bottom-line benefit in offering "more" to existing DVC owners as an incentive to purchase add-ons direct. And there might be some bottom-line benefit to offering existing DVC owners to increase their points holdings by purchasing direct. And there is a bottom-line benefit in rewarding referrals for new sales by existing owners (there is no better salesperson than a happy owner).

But I think generally there is no need to improve the product being offered. There is plenty of differentiation and plenty of value already -- they don't need to give anything away. Nor should they.
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