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Old 05-25-2013, 08:55 AM   #76
Tonka's Skipper
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And the argument is "well what about the dues...they are a fortune?"
My argument there is that dues really are just a drop in the bucket. In my case it works out to be a little less than a thousand for what gives us 3 weeks in WDW
.


This is about my figures as well.


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Old 05-25-2013, 11:49 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by lockedoutlogic View Post
With all due respect to you two...I don't know why you bother doing that particular mathematical comparison.



It's something to do.


I see what you're saying...but I wouldn't base it on the DVC rental market. Remember: we are all ultimately renters from Disney and if they sense a distinct pattern of circumventing the purchase of new contracts by frequent, consistent renting...they'll blow it up in a Wall Street minute.
Yup. I thought I remembered more limiting on the rentals when we first bought.
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Old 05-25-2013, 12:40 PM   #78
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Yup. I thought I remembered more limiting on the rentals when we first bought.
There's actually is...it is just seldom invoked.

While Florida considers DVC a real estate transaction... The contracts are written up basically as elaborate rental agreements.

They can't tell you to not use your "interest" how you want or deny you the privilege to book for who you want...

But they can suspend your usage at any moment if they think you are renting it and turning one cent in profit...it in the contract.

So DVC rentals are actually somewhere between 100% legitimate and 100% illegal...depending on who's looking at it and how ticked off they are that day.

It's kinda like a college apartment...while most have language that allows subletting...you can't rent them out nightly or on the weekends for party houses/ shag palaces...
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Old 06-13-2013, 12:09 AM   #79
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~It's funny...

~I took a nice long sabbatical, I missed posting on Rumors so much. I noticed that a problematic poster wasn't posting here at all after I left, just as expected -- I was so thrilled. Predictably, it hasn't even been 24 hours since I started posting here again and now the problem is suddenly back, but at least everyone knows the real deal now. Ugh...

~Anyway, I miss my mean pirate.
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Old 06-13-2013, 07:06 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by DRDISNEYMD View Post
~I took a nice long sabbatical, I missed posting on Rumors so much. I noticed that a problematic poster wasn't posting here at all after I left, just as expected -- I was so thrilled. Predictably, it hasn't even been 24 hours since I started posting here again and now the problem is suddenly back, but at least everyone knows the real deal now. Ugh...

~Anyway, I miss my mean pirate.
Sadly, I noticed this, too. It's best to just ignore it.

I was just going to start a few new threads and post some Disney news but decided against it. I will hold off for now.

Last edited by Rumors Rocks; 06-13-2013 at 08:41 AM. Reason: Wanted to add one more sentence.
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Old 06-13-2013, 09:36 AM   #81
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I joined the Boards in 2006 but have been a lot more active in the past month. We won't be going to Disney for at least another year or two, so I figured this was a good way to interact with fans and talk about the latest Disney news. I think most of the people on the boards mean well and treat others with respect. There have been some great conversations about where Disney is headed with attractions, Fastpass+, and other tricky subjects that have been generally handled well.

However, I have seen cases where people are surprisingly rude and attack the poster personally, and I think that's what the OP is getting at with this thread. It's fine to disagree with ideas and have a good conversation that may even get heated. I hate the idea of Fastpass+ and don't believe it helps the guest, but that doesn't mean everyone needs to think this way. Still, I've shared my opinion while trying to not be too one-sided (at least from my perspective).

The challenge is when people throw in posts with snarky comments about the person not being a "true Disney fan" or "a shill for Disney" on the other side. Everyone's had their own experiences at the parks, and they aren't always great. It's cool that there are so many different perspectives, but I have noticed more nasty posts now than I saw a few years ago. I'm sticking around, but it can be sad at times. It's still a great place with a lot of passionate fans like me.
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Old 06-13-2013, 08:04 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumors Rocks View Post
Sadly, I noticed this, too. It's best to just ignore it.

I was just going to start a few new threads and post some Disney news but decided against it. I will hold off for now.
~Thank you, for that observation & I totally see why! I just told another poster to start a new thread, and the problem suddenly pops up again! It's hilarious.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dwheaton View Post
I joined the Boards in 2006 but have been a lot more active in the past month. We won't be going to Disney for at least another year or two, so I figured this was a good way to interact with fans and talk about the latest Disney news. I think most of the people on the boards mean well and treat others with respect. There have been some great conversations about where Disney is headed with attractions, Fastpass+, and other tricky subjects that have been generally handled well.

However, I have seen cases where people are surprisingly rude and attack the poster personally, and I think that's what the OP is getting at with this thread. It's fine to disagree with ideas and have a good conversation that may even get heated. I hate the idea of Fastpass+ and don't believe it helps the guest, but that doesn't mean everyone needs to think this way. Still, I've shared my opinion while trying to not be too one-sided (at least from my perspective).

The challenge is when people throw in posts with snarky comments about the person not being a "true Disney fan" or "a shill for Disney" on the other side. Everyone's had their own experiences at the parks, and they aren't always great. It's cool that there are so many different perspectives, but I have noticed more nasty posts now than I saw a few years ago. I'm sticking around, but it can be sad at times. It's still a great place with a lot of passionate fans like me.
~Don't let that discourage you, but yes I agree Rumors was a lot more pleasant than it is now. Sad. We just have to ignore those who don't know how to play nice!
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Old 06-21-2013, 09:49 AM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lewisc View Post
There are some Disney "apologists" (maybe not the right term) who like to lecture on economics. I think at least some of those posters are just quoting slogans, others may be knowledgeable.
Their points can be summarized:
1) Disney is a for profit, publicly traded, company and has such has to maximize (short term) profits.
2) Disney has spend a lot of money on market research and analyzing their customers. We can't possibly know more then Disney. We should not be so presumptuous as to think our experience and articles we've read is close to good enough to even comment on Disney, let alone second guess.
3) Disney current results (or historical results when Disney was down) proves point 1 and 2.

Those points have some validity. Accept all 3 points and there really isn't any basis for discussion. We're left with people lecturing other on economics and not about Disney.

There are companies like Four Seasons, Nordstroms, COSTCO (to some extent) and Apple which exceed in customer service. The do far more then the minimum required by law in order to keep their customers and attract new customers.

There are companies like Spirit which has no interest in doing anything for customer service. Spirit believes their customers only book if the price is right and every dollar spent on customer service, other then whats required by law, is money which is wasted.

I've read Disney discovered they could charge room rates at the GF for close to 5* (4 Seasons) prices without having to spend the money on staffing, and amenities, required to offer a 5* experience.
I am SOOO late to this party, I considered not even joining...but I had to comment on your enumerated points, above.

I think #1 is spot on. I think #2 is close to the mark...but we'll never actually KNOW those numbers, so they aren't necessarily relevant. We can surmise what those numbers were only after action is taken...or, after a sufficient period of time (probably longer than anyone would like), action is NOT taken.

#3 is where I part company with many people. I, too vividly, remember companies like IBM, Kodak, Coca Cola (who famously reversed course), and other enormously successful, and long standing, companies...who had amazing historical results and even years of current financial success all leading up to a meteoric collapse. And in every case it was because they drastically misjudged their market. And trust me, they all did a ton of consumer research, too. Only Coke was smart enough to reverse course and regained their market share.

That being said:

I would certainly not call myself an apologist. Nor would I call myself a detractor. When I am AT Disney, I leave the armchair corporate executive hat at home, and I enjoy my vacation. Every minute of it.

But when I'm home, and we're here on these boards, there are certainly things you notice Disney doing that you might not agree with. Or that you can see very clear reasoning behind (profit). Or that you see posted that have very clear business motivations that argue against it (ie: Marvel being at WDW, a fifth gate, etc).

I try to keep as much snark out of my posts as possible (you all can judge how successfully I do that), but I'm not going to go gently into that good night. I feel like this is a discussion board...so we discuss. I make my case, you make yours. But I have noticed an increase in people who THINK they're being snarked at, who THINK they're being ganged up on, who THINK they're being put down....when, simply, they're being disagreed with. They take the disagreement, itself, as a personal attack. Especially when there is a LOT of disagreement.

Now, I'm not saying there are NO instances where people get a little snarky and rude. There certainly are. And I agree...those people effected have reason to speak up.

But I think many people need to evaluate what is actually meant to be taken as an insult, and what is simply a counterpoint that sort of stings.

One other point: I've noticed something else. When I notice snarkiness and rudeness, I seem to notice MORE in threads who's topics come up a LOT. The Marvel thing, for example. Certainly the "official vs not really official" topic (though it spans multiple rumors) is another. I suspect the reason for this is the regulars, who take issue with some of the above, are saying very close to the same thing for the 10th, 50th, or 100th time...which is probably leading to some frustration. Not that that is an excuse...it's not. But it is a bit of insight.

Anyway, there's my late contribution to the party.
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Last edited by pilferk; 06-21-2013 at 10:34 AM.
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Old 06-21-2013, 10:22 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by Tonka's Skipper View Post

No correct when you add in you have the buy into the DVC, which is expensive and pay yearly dues.

AKK
Depends.

Our buy in was 19200, the first day AKV went on sale (so we get the ful 50 years) to the public. We pay roughly 1100 a year in dues, right now.

In the simplest calculation possible (and it's SUPER simplified...it's not taking into account opportunity cost or any of a number of other factors), THIS years trip is going to cost us about $212 a night. That's for 1 week (Saturday to Saturday) in a 1BR Savanna view at Kidani Village. To get that I take our buy in, amortize it over 50 years, and add in our annual dues...divide by 7. Specifically, that's 19200/50=384. 384+1100=1484. 1484/7=212.

Now, if you add the complexities of opportunity cost and/or you want to amortize your buy in price over a shorter term (some folks prefer to use 10 years), then...no...you're right. Then room rates are more like 450 a night for your first 10 years, and then will drop to something more like $180 to $200 a night over (assuming 3% growth on dues) the rest of your contract (since you're only amortizing your annual dues and opportunity cost over the rest of your contract).
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Old 06-21-2013, 10:29 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by skier_pete View Post
I did a calculation awhile back - and asssuming reasonable levels of inflation I figured that it would take 21 years to "break even" on a comparison of buying DVC versus renting points. Now, that doesn't take into account the ability of a DVC member to pre-book at 11 months at his home resort, nor the discounts a DVC member gets. But I still couldn't see justifying buying DVC, as we are perfectly happy at moderates and getting free dining most trips weighs the equation heavily in favor of not buying. However, to each his own, I can't say it is a "bad deal" certainly, but not for me. Maybe in 20 years I will regret that.
Our break even was around 8 years. We paid cash for our buy in, go every year, and always stayed deluxe (largely because we were a family of 5, and, when we bought in, had very few other options).

If you are happy in a mod or value (and there ain't nothin' wrong with that) or don't go at least every OTHER year...DVC probably isn't going to work well for you.

Likewise, if you finance (esp via Disney)...you're probably going to see a LOT of your "savings" go to the Disney as interest payments.

I'll repeat the mandatory DVC litany: DVC is definitely NOT for everyone! In some cases it makes no financial sense and in some cases it offers zero value for people.
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Old 06-23-2013, 10:57 AM   #86
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not real;ly sure of the intent of the original post..

but, I have been the receipient of those venemous exchanges many a time in the past... I don't blame the members as they are passioanate about disney...and so am I...unfortunately, its in the other direction these days...

when I conjure up wonderful images of disney, they are shot down by...a myraid of negatives ( cost increases/ paying more/getting less, increasing crowds)...that keep me away...

THe last few vacations Ive taken over 2 years had nothing disney about them and they were just as fantastic...

So, thats just my two cents...now in regard to this board, I find it useful for disney trip info weather I go again or not...
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Old 06-23-2013, 02:49 PM   #87
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Bingo! and that is why many go to other forums.
There are other forums?!
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Old 06-24-2013, 07:33 AM   #88
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when I conjure up wonderful images of disney, they are shot down by...a myraid of negatives ( cost increases/ paying more/getting less, increasing crowds)...that keep me away...
See, but that's the point: That contrary viewpoint..the more business focused one...is just as valid as the "pixie dust and magic" one. Both sides are giving valid portrayals of their viewpoints.

I agree...the presentation is sometimes lacking (on BOTH sides of the spectrum). But both sides are going to argue their case in any discussion...neither side should be stifled because those with a contrary opinion find the differing opinion to be uncomfortable. Make your case to the masses, until you get the point where both sides are chasing their tails, then move on. And try to do so with as much civility as you can...while not taking a valid counterargument as a personal attack.

Not to rant...but this is one of the biggest problems in our society: People have a hard time separating the argument from the person. If someone disagrees with anyone, it's taken as a personal attack, rather than a counter point. No matter how it's presented. And then it all boils down to a huge, "partisan", shouting match between the varying "sides".
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Old 06-24-2013, 08:52 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by Tonka's Skipper View Post

What I am objecting to the name calling and snarky rude stuff.

Everyone is entitled to a opinion and no one deserves to be called names.

AKK
I think this post really hits the nail on the head so to speak. I myself LOVE a good debate but to have a debate both parties need to keep it on subject and not get personal.

Name calling, snarky comments and such take away from a true debate and only tend to lead to more unproductive comments.

If you disagree with someones point of view on something discuss that do not bring it to

well you are _____________ because you think__________.

How about

OK I don't fully see where you are coming from on ___________ could you please explain why you think ___________ so I can try to see where you are coming from and then I will explain why i think _______________. Better? No?

I have learned so much from debating a subject with someone of an opposing view, have even seen something in a new light because of it before, but if they make it personal with insults and such that chance for learning and growing goes right out the window.
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Old 06-24-2013, 10:14 AM   #90
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Nobody knows what they are talking about on here but me! So just get that straight! I don't care about anyone else's opinion!

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