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Old 05-29-2013, 04:17 PM   #1441
doconeill


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Originally Posted by Squidgyness View Post
So there goes my hope of it being reconsidered. Maybe it will still not require pre booking... But the article did mention arranging times online before you arrive. Looks like the days of the spontaneous or non planner trips with equal access to rides as planners might be coming to an end after all.

"Taking six or ten pieces of paper out of your hand"

Yeah and replacing them with even less functionality. Three fastpasses and a ticket or kttw card. That's four pieces of paper Tom. Not ten.

Either that or he is hinting at same day fastpass availability.

My sense of foreboding grows.
Not unless he's taken away FPs 4-10 altogether

And a minor nit...some of us have both a KTTW card AND a ticket (annual pass), so this would get rid of that redundancy as well.
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Old 05-29-2013, 04:20 PM   #1442
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Originally Posted by dwheaton View Post
This is an intriguing discussion, and it's been great to see the respectful debates.

Regarding the possibility of charging for FPs, I don't see that happening. Instead, I see Disney using it as a way to push people to stay on site, at deluxe resorts, and to join DVC. In a way, it's a price increase because it deprives off-site guests of the same perks, but it doesn't have a direct charge.

The big question is if it will ever work how it was designed. I believe the delay and lack of information is because they can't figure out a way to implement it and not induce chaos. This is the silver lining for me and gives me hope that at least the current FP system will remain in place along with extras.

I visited Disney World as a kid in the '80s and '90s and remember having a great time despite having to wait in line for the popular rides. We just got there early, plowed ahead, and saw as many attractions as possible. I believe the current Fastpass system still has a similar feeling. It rewards you for diligence and allows you to see as much as you can within the confines of the system. It gives a fair shake to anyone who pays the ticket fee at the gate and doesn't create a tiered system.

No matter what Disney eventually does with FastPass+ (I don't want to speculate too much since it's unknown), basically every option that I can consider removes that part of the visit. Yes, Universal does require you to stay on-site to get FOTL, but I've never had a problem getting on everything at their parks without it. Disney is a different entity and is dealing with much larger crowds (with a narrowing gap).

Finally, I think what's really bugging many of us is the overall culture of what's happening with Disney. The FP+ is more of a symptom than the sole problem. We're seeing Universal announce new attractions and build them in less than a year! They're opening Transformers and the Simpsons land this summer and will have Harry Potter next year. They just keep rolling along. While I understand that Disney can't respond every time, what do they have coming down the pipe? We probably won't visit again until early 2015 because we have a baby. Will there be anything new besides the Snow White Mine Train? I love Disney World and the amazing attractions, but they've been stalling for a while. Their focus on the Magic Band and FP+ seems worse because there isn't enough else that's happening with new rides.
I think those days might be coming to an end... Quite sad if that's the case, but what can we do? We have no power on our own, we don't have enough people who would be willing to stand up, I doubt if a large enough boycott can be organised to stop this. At best it will be repealed after the damage has been done in a few years. At worst its here to stay. You'll either have to adjust or get out. I'm going to start officially planning for future vacations to different destinations just in case. Plan for the worst. Just glad I didn't have a trip booked for next year.

And doc, I didn't realise annual passes were separate pieces of paper that couldn't be merged with a kttw. Thanks for the heads up.
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Old 05-29-2013, 04:23 PM   #1443
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Originally Posted by Pixie Princess View Post
Magic bands and MM+ as explained by Edna Mode. Oh and Tom Staggs too.
So, I watched the entire interiview and it may be a little creepier than I expected. FP Limits are key. However, this comment made me cringe.

"People want to interact with their smart phones while being immersed in our experience". Really?
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Old 05-29-2013, 04:25 PM   #1444
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Originally Posted by agavegirl1 View Post

So, I watched the entire interiview and it may be a little creepier than I expected. FP Limits are key. However, this comment made me cringe.

"People want to interact with their smart phones while being immersed in our experience". Really?
Okay, he really said that? Wow.

That's where their thinking has officially veered off from mine. Ew.
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Old 05-29-2013, 04:27 PM   #1445
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Okay, he really said that? Wow.

That's where their thinking has officially veered off from mine. Ew.
Yes. We need even more people with their faces buried in a screen standing in the way.
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Old 05-29-2013, 04:32 PM   #1446
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Old 05-29-2013, 04:40 PM   #1447
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I don't think they'd want you to babysit your FP+ reservations. I'm guessing they'd rather you just click OK to the pre-selected package of FP+s offered up based on your profile.
Ain't that the truth! I'm sure they'd set me right up with some first rate plans.

Quote:
Originally Posted by agavegirl1 View Post
So, I watched the entire interiview and it may be a little creepier than I expected. FP Limits are key. However, this comment made me cringe.

"People want to interact with their smart phones while being immersed in our experience". Really?
I'm telling you, these people aren't around anybody who isn't buried in their devices day in and day out. They forget that there's a huge segment of the population that really sees that piece of it as a DOWN side. Meanwhile they're all high fiving each other at their clever new devices. They are out of touch.
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Old 05-29-2013, 04:40 PM   #1448
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You know, I really relate to this. Its like Universal is doing things the way Disney use to, before bean counters ruled the world.

Look at the pathetic promotions that have been out lately, the weekly things. I mean , really?

And before, Universal had to carve out its own niche, trying to suck out a niche that disney did not do, the teen crowd and the thrill crowd. But now, they recognize, and have been working on, beating disney at its own game. The offer mind blowing new attractions, a complete revamp of older attractions, and are paying very close attention to detail. They are becoming a known family destination.

so its bean counters vs imagineers

Disney is the conglomerate bean counter
Universal is giving free rein to its imagineers.

I personally love the old school approach that universal is using, but I can see what disney thinks they will get out of their approach.

its going to be interesting to see this all come to a head, and honestly, I think that in the next couple of weeks we will see where disney stands. Arrogantly, based on crumbs tossed to the masses with bean counters (who are brilliant, I cant say they are not,) and marketing teams, (who are brilliant, and I can see how they plan to revolutionize things) and imagineers who have been muzzled with budgets and concessions..

vs Universals old school way of doing things. Plenty of new, plenty of more, and also, stuff that is entertaining across the grid.

All in all, I think the war is coming, but the attendance stats will be a true indicator for this.

Again, I cant help but watching as I think either this is going to be the most exciting June we have ever seen, or Disney ignores the threat, and continues its past behaviours.

~A
Exactly. What interests me is that Disney has seen the importance of new attractions. All they have to do is look at the huge attendance increases at California Adventure. The impact of Cars Land has been remarkable, and they're now drawing much larger crowds over there

I expect this would happen in Florida. If Disney came out and said they were adding a new land to DHS or even just revamping a few rides at EPCOT like Imagination or Energy, people would be over the moon! Trips would be planned solely to see those new attractions.

On the other hand, I see few who will be excited by the changes they're announcing. It totally makes sense from a marketing perspective and in terms of efficiencies. However, there needs to be a balance between the MBA analysts and the creative folks. Right now, it's skewering too much in the other direction for me.

I'm still trying to stay hopeful, though!
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Old 05-29-2013, 04:50 PM   #1449
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None of this bother me except the FP+ portion, but even that can be implemented in a way that helps everyone without requiring too much advanced planning. They can achieve their goals without forcing everyone to become OCD about their planning by severely limiting the number of attractions that can be reserved by each individual in advance. Example - allow only one "tier 1" ride, one parade, and one "other" ride reservation in advance. All other FPs to be assigned as they currently are, but without the paper.

My other concern - this will force me to carry a smart phone into the parks. My memory is terrible, and I will need something to look at to remind me of my return times or I will miss every FP window.
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Old 05-29-2013, 04:59 PM   #1450
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Ok I'm finally all caught up. I read through it all. The one thing that keeps sticking with me through of this, is the idea that Disney would be putting all this money on a system that is basically banking on the ignorance of most of the people who go to Disney, this idea that people who don't know any better will be satisfied with a couple fast passes for things that they really aren't necessary for. While I agree that there will always be people who are either unaware or uninterested in the few extra steps they can take to get more out of things, I feel like it's such an unreliable variable to be basing such a HUGE amount of money on.

It also really seems like this idea would just be creating a more consistently moderate experience for everyone, opposed to really top notch experience. While no one is going to have a perfect experience everytime, wasn't Walt's whole MO to really take things to the next level?

I really hope Rileygirl is right. I hope this is all just a front for something they have up their sleeves to really blow us away.
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Old 05-29-2013, 05:09 PM   #1451
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Originally Posted by maddiebee View Post
Ok I'm finally all caught up. I read through it all. The one thing that keeps sticking with me through of this, is the idea that Disney would be putting all this money on a system that is basically banking on the ignorance of most of the people who go to Disney, this idea that people who don't know any better will be satisfied with a couple fast passes for things that they really aren't necessary for. While I agree that there will always be people who are either unaware or uninterested in the few extra steps they can take to get more out of things, I feel like it's such an unreliable variable to be basing such a HUGE amount of money on.

It also really seems like this idea would just be creating a more consistently moderate experience for everyone, opposed to really top notch experience. While no one is going to have a perfect experience everytime, wasn't Walt's whole MO to really take things to the next level?

I really hope Rileygirl is right. I hope this is all just a front for something they have up their sleeves to really blow us away.
It's a beige world after all?

I have no intention of flying 4000 miles and spending thousands of dollars to get a single headliner fastpass and then rely on whatever scraps they should deign to release on the day, if any, or be coerced into doing certain things. I want the chance for brilliant colour and spontaneous experiences, not a guaranteed but planned, limited, cookie cutter beige vacation dictated by some spreadsheet with my few precious fastpasses on. This seems far less conducive to that than the current system.

Sigh, the more I read the more this becomes a case of ideological differences and less technical detail and issues. Smartphone usage in park is just another example of where I and the tptb differ in mindset. And that's not good for our relationship.
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Old 05-29-2013, 05:13 PM   #1452
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Old 05-29-2013, 05:19 PM   #1453
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It also really seems like this idea would just be creating a more consistently moderate experience for everyone, opposed to really top notch experience.

Talk about hitting the nail squarely on the head!
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Old 05-29-2013, 05:25 PM   #1454
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I actually like the idea of having everything on the band (room key, park passes, adr's, charging etc) it would make life easier than fumbling around in my wife's pocketbook at the gate. However I not a fan of limiting anything. So as I read it correctly you can only get 3 FP's in one park? So if your a park hopper you would be out of luck for FP's in anther park??
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Old 05-29-2013, 05:26 PM   #1455
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Ok I'm finally all caught up. I read through it all. The one thing that keeps sticking with me through of this, is the idea that Disney would be putting all this money on a system that is basically banking on the ignorance of most of the people who go to Disney, this idea that people who don't know any better will be satisfied with a couple fast passes for things that they really aren't necessary for. While I agree that there will always be people who are either unaware or uninterested in the few extra steps they can take to get more out of things, I feel like it's such an unreliable variable to be basing such a HUGE amount of money on.

It also really seems like this idea would just be creating a more consistently moderate experience for everyone, opposed to really top notch experience. While no one is going to have a perfect experience everytime, wasn't Walt's whole MO to really take things to the next level?

I really hope Rileygirl is right. I hope this is all just a front for something they have up their sleeves to really blow us away.
Congradulations on this endeavor. Its a monsterous thread. And I agree with Mom2rtk, that you hit the nail on the head.

Ok, off to make dinner. Instead of nuggets, its shakn bake. Oh, the insanity, but the kids dont seem to object....see. mediocrity reins!
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