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Old 05-28-2013, 04:31 PM   #1321
jade1
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But how can they stop standby lines from growing even longer by expanding the usage of FP and the places at which you can use FP? So you only get 3 FP in advance to limit impacts on standby lines. If these FP are all booked up, standby will still be the same, surely.

The rest of the time aren't using those 3 lovely afternoon FP's you will be in standby, but everyone using FP when you are stood in standby will increase the wait time, unless Disney can find a solution.

They are not limiting the impact of FP's with this if they are just distributing them more evenly across the population. Unless they reduce the overall amount of FP's available, the impact of them on stanby times will remain the same.

Instead of just late comers and the uninitiated getting screwed, it's still going to be an flawed system, just one whose flaws affect everybody.

And if wait times do get longer I think Disney will be in trouble.

This would all be fine if Disney existed in it's own little perfect world without competition. It doesn't and this policy actually doesn't strengthen disney in regards to it's competition all that much, it could even weaken it.

For those who don't want to use FP+ or plan rides in advance, and those people are out there, Universal and other parks will become a far more attractive proposal, because though their lines are still not short, at least they won't be as bad as Disney will get without using FP+. What is the point of having more attractions and parks available at WDW if you can't get on them without a fastpass booked 60 days in advance?

For those that do decide use FP, they will still wait in really long lines for the rest of the time. If you want to do more than three rides without "insane wait times" as people often say now, good luck. If you don't get the best FP's, good luck getting on a headliner still, that will not change all that much. If you don't get the right times, you'll have to adjust your schedule.

What if people like you who want to sleep in and not rush don't get that afternoon FP time because people have snapped it up, just 60 days in advance? If you can't get a same day FP (and as you say latecomers can't now, so it's unlikely to change) they will have to wait in standby, and I still think standby will be affected by (prebooked) fastpasses just the same if not worse than it is now. They will either have to adjust their touring strategy or accept increased standby times, especially at places like the HM that never had FP.

For those that WANT FP's, they will perhaps look at Universal and it's front of the line pass and see that as a more attractive option. A few might stop going to disney because of the limits they have placed on fastpasses. The rest will game the system to their advantage by formulating a plan to get the best FP's as soon as they become available 60 days out, leaving the naive newcomers logging in an hour after the fastpasses come online just as screwed as they are now in regards to popular rides.

If I were at Universal now I'd be preparing ads that emphasise that unlike Disney, Universal gives you UNLIMITED front of the line access with a pass, which you can get free with an onsite stay.

Yes Disney can't compete on this front because universal only has 3 onsite hotels and an unlimited fastpass system wouldn't be feasible for Disney, but that is why they should fight Universal on traditional ground like theming, attractions and try and change pricing etc. Not try and make rides available for everyone equally, I don't think it's possible.

Someone is always going to get screwed. Will less people get screwed under the new system? I don't know. I don't think so.
Many of your points seem to threaten the folks that get no FP's now, and sadly for them they will now get 3 but have longer lines otherwise. But they get zero now so its just not a threat at all.

Secondly there is still no proof the lines will be longer. Until this rolls out we will not know. Many prescheduled FP+ users will not show at all, or miss times, or only hit the park during those 3.

The thing is-when a FP currently is distributed for a headliner-its probably 90% chance it will indeed be used. 100% early in the day IMO. Those guests are there in the park waiting for that FP time. At 60 days-that % has to go down- because they may not even make the trip, may sleep in, may be sick, may not like the weather etc.

As for other rides-I'm sure you have gotten a "surprise bonus FP" at EPCOT with a TT FP for Shrunk The Audience. We have many times-but either never needed it anyway, or didn't even go.

I guess my point is we will find out if it is indeed rolled out what folks really end up doing.

You also seem to forget the day of FP's, the time of year they may offer more, as well as times they are not even needed anyway.

As for not getting an afternoon FP-I think that's a stretch argument, but again its no different than now, and if I want something at 60 days out I will log on and get it. The options that day will be huge-if TSM is gone or early AM-take TOT or RNR or switch to AK and take EE, then the next day take TSM, or the next.

US/IOA-we go there already so ur preachin to the choir.
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Old 05-28-2013, 04:31 PM   #1322
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Random thought that has probably already been said...The goal, somewhere down the line, could be years away, must be to start charging for more FP+. JMO.

If people will pay a lot of $ to eat dessert at the Tomorrowland Terrace just to watch fireworks, how much will people pay to get at least a better spot at fireworks, parades, rides, shows, etc...
Where are these "better" spots for fireworks and parades?? Unless it is very limited or they rope off large spots, I would think you would still need to show up pretty early to make sure you were up front. The though of large parts of Main Street roped off hours before the parade doesn't sound nice to me. Not to mention if you don't want to do the parade and just trying to get through the hub and down Main Street to leave 30 minutes or less before the parade is a nightmare as it is!!
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Old 05-28-2013, 04:37 PM   #1323
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Till that "three faspasses, one fastpass per ride" voice that sounds strangely like mine drags you kicking and screaming into reality that is...
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..... you forgot to mention one attraction per tier.

Pesky little details.......
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Old 05-28-2013, 04:40 PM   #1324
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Where are these "better" spots for fireworks and parades?? Unless it is very limited or they rope off large spots, I would think you would still need to show up pretty early to make sure you were up front. The though of large parts of Main Street roped off hours before the parade doesn't sound nice to me. Not to mention if you don't want to do the parade and just trying to get through the hub and down Main Street to leave 30 minutes or less before the parade is a nightmare as it is!!
That was just an example I was using to show that people will pay more for premium experiences and Disney knows that. That is what I think is going to happen with FP+, eventually. They could start charging extra for all kinds of things, premium seating for fireworks and parades, more FPs for rides, preferred seating for shows with no wait, anything. You could monetize everything at Disney on an individual basis with this system.

Just my prediction. While I think it's the ultimate goal, I also think it's going to take a long time.
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Old 05-28-2013, 04:47 PM   #1325
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Many of your points seem to threaten the folks that get no FP's now, and sadly for them they will now get 3 but have longer lines otherwise. But they get zero now so its just not a threat at all.

Secondly there is still no proof the lines will be longer. Until this rolls out we will not know. Many prescheduled FP+ users will not show at all, or miss times, or only hit the park during those 3.

The thing is-when a FP currently is distributed for a headliner-its probably 90% chance it will indeed be used. 100% early in the day IMO. Those guests are there in the park waiting for that FP time. At 60 days-that % has to go down- because they may not even make the trip, may sleep in, may be sick, may not like the weather etc.

As for other rides-I'm sure you have gotten a "surprise bonus FP" at EPCOT with a TT FP for Shrunk The Audience. We have many times-but either never needed it anyway, or didn't even go.

I guess my point is we will find out if it is indeed rolled out what folks really end up doing.

You also seem to forget the day of FP's, the time of year they may offer more, as well as times they are not even needed anyway.

As for not getting an afternoon FP-I think that's a stretch argument, but again its no different than now, and if I want something at 60 days out I will log on and get it. The options that day will be huge-if TSM is gone or early AM-take TOT or RNR or switch to AK and take EE, then the next day take TSM, or the next.

US/IOA-we go there already so ur preachin to the choir.
It might not be that much of a threat to those who don't get FP now, but its not all that much of a lure either is it? I mean three tiered fastpasses valid once per ride in one park, its good if you never got fastpass but its hardly the weapon to begin fighting back against the rise of other parks to compete with disney (I'm not suggesting they have overtaken them... Yet). If like you say many people don't end up using them, how will it keep them on property? Is it even worth investing a billion in this system, especially if it ends up under utilised?

Logic still dictates to me that adding fastpass to attractions that never had it will make standby lines longer. If only 60% of advance fastpasses do end up being used, that's still 60% more people in a fastpass queue that was never there before. Ergo, standby line is longer at those attractions. When you don't have a fastpass (which will still be 80% of the time) you will experience this.

My point with not getting an afternoon fp is that many of these people don't get one because they don't get up on the day. Yes it might just be that they are tired, but to me that speaks of a, perfectly acceptable, desire for a more relaxed and spontaneous vacation.

How does this new system help them though? We've established it doesn't really help uber planners and commando tourers since they seem to have throttled the life out of fastpass usage with limits, but how many of these people who don't get fastpasses on the day will have that cut throat, gotta-be-up-to-get-that-fastpass attitude sixty days out? It's the same problem, just two months early. A better way to help them and not hurt anyones experience would have been if they kept the same day fastpass with RFID tech but only released half the fastpasses that morning and released the rest at noon. Or stopped you picking times in the afternoon till it WAS afternoon.

Is it going to end up like the ADR system where for some rides if you aren't on the ball and selecting passes in hours, you ain't going to get one? Because if it does, it helps neither the uber fastpass users or the lazy day people, or for that matter the people who do both depending on the day.

This system seems designed to please everyone, and yet only pleases some, and not very well at that IMO.
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Old 05-28-2013, 05:22 PM   #1326
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I'm Excited about FP+

Ok so this is my first visit to this thread. . . I am a little dismayed at some of what I am seeing like FP for food lines etc. In all of the information that I have seen there has been no mention of such. I have also seen people who think that they will have to plan their days to the minute (again not so).

From everything I have seen and read, this system will actually help to eliminate those people who run through the parks, trampling any man woman or child in site to get a precious FP.

Also I strongly believe that if it is your first time, or first time in a long time, or your 100th time, planning is always key. The new FP+ system will only assist with that planning.

Ie. we are going in November, if FP+ is up and running, we could log on at 60 days out and check in and register for our fast passes. . . we have already booked our ADR on day 180 so we know what parks we plan to be at on what days. . . we also know what rides we will really want FP for. I love that with FP+ we can choose a time. . .if I want Toy Story between 10 and 11 am, then we can try to schedule that. You actually have a little more control than with the old system. If I decide that day that 10 to 11 doesn't work, I simply log onto my app on my phone and change it or go to a kiosk within the park to make changes. . .

I truly hope it is working when we go. . .

I do know people who have gone, they are there right now, and didn't really plan at all and they are miserable. If you go and don't use apps that show you wait times etc, your trip may be miserable. I think planning (and being flexible once there) makes for the best trips and FP+ will only help with that!!!
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Old 05-28-2013, 05:36 PM   #1327
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Random thought that has probably already been said...The goal, somewhere down the line, could be years away, must be to start charging for more FP+. JMO.

If people will pay a lot of $ to eat dessert at the Tomorrowland Terrace just to watch fireworks, how much will people pay to get at least a better spot at fireworks, parades, rides, shows, etc...
This I believe is the answer to a lot of questions. Disney is the only amusement park that has a free Fastpass system. (As far as I know)

For the last 10+ years Fastpass has been free. This gets many repeat guests to tour with a Fastpass in their pocket, creating a demand. Does anyone want to go back to touring without any Fastpasses?

Now, they add the Magic Band and kiosks manned with CM's to help you plan and book your Fastpass+ and my guess is to help you pay for it.

They did the same thing with the Dining Plan. At first the dining plan saved money. It included an appetizer and the gratuity. At certain times of the year the offered "free" dining. This created a demand for the dining plan. It's convenient ! I like having all my meals paid for in advance. And sometimes it is "free"

And they raised the price to maximize profits$$$$
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Old 05-28-2013, 05:40 PM   #1328
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My point with not getting an afternoon fp is that many of these people don't get one because they don't get up on the day. Yes it might just be that they are tired, but to me that speaks of a, perfectly acceptable, desire for a more relaxed and spontaneous vacation.

How does this new system help them though? We've established it doesn't really help uber planners and commando tourers since they seem to have throttled the life out of fastpass usage with limits, but how many of these people who don't get fastpasses on the day will have that cut throat, gotta-be-up-to-get-that-fastpass attitude sixty days out? It's the same problem, just two months early.
Well I've said before on this thread that I am up every day 50 weeks of the year and first thing is at a computer. So I'm covered for sure.

But when vacation hits-I'm not in a hurry.

Secondly, only ONE member of the party needs to get them. Much the same as if I could grab everyone's park passes now, then go to TSM myself and get everyone a FP for when they are ready to go.

You can be sure many parents are up plenty early to go to DHS currently-but wait on the kids for multiple reasons, from crabby without sleep, to hungry, to showers and getting ready. This eliminates that.
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Old 05-28-2013, 05:49 PM   #1329
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Ok so this is my first visit to this thread. . . I am a little dismayed at some of what I am seeing like FP for food lines etc. In all of the information that I have seen there has been no mention of such. I have also seen people who think that they will have to plan their days to the minute (again not so).

From everything I have seen and read, this system will actually help to eliminate those people who run through the parks, trampling any man woman or child in site to get a precious FP.

Also I strongly believe that if it is your first time, or first time in a long time, or your 100th time, planning is always key. The new FP+ system will only assist with that planning.

Ie. we are going in November, if FP+ is up and running, we could log on at 60 days out and check in and register for our fast passes. . . we have already booked our ADR on day 180 so we know what parks we plan to be at on what days. . . we also know what rides we will really want FP for. I love that with FP+ we can choose a time. . .if I want Toy Story between 10 and 11 am, then we can try to schedule that. You actually have a little more control than with the old system. If I decide that day that 10 to 11 doesn't work, I simply log onto my app on my phone and change it or go to a kiosk within the park to make changes. . .

I truly hope it is working when we go. . .

I do know people who have gone, they are there right now, and didn't really plan at all and they are miserable. If you go and don't use apps that show you wait times etc, your trip may be miserable. I think planning (and being flexible once there) makes for the best trips and FP+ will only help with that!!!
I'm glad you are excited for fp, but this could screw some people over.

You say planning is key to having a good vacation. I'm afraid it isn't. What might be key is knowing where to go, what to do, and how to do it without planning, in general terms. For example, I might know that I can easily get into a counter service place at 3pm and not so much at 12pm, but I don't plan the specific place. It's just there in the back of my head, knowing the smart things to do and the not so smart things to do.

Making ADRs for specific places, ride reservations, even knowing what park you will be at on each day is not essential. The common sense to know what to do in order to enjoy a spontaneous day at WDW is.

I've been five times to WDW, we never knew what park we were going to, never made dining reservations, never planned anything more than two hours in advance. We still had amazing vacations where we rode everything we wanted too.

The reason those people are having a miserable vacation is because they set the bar too high, they expect to do everything, or they failed to learn basic facts about where things are, what is available and set a general idea of what is sensible and what isn't, in order to enjoy themselves. Not because they didn't book their rides sixty days out. Millions of people have good vacations at WDW without planning, or it wouldn't exist and make so much money. Either that or boards like the dis full of planning experts would have hundreds of thousands of members.

The new system will not fix this lack of basic knowledge or common sense.

Before I could turn up at a park at 9am without a specific itinerary using common sense to go for the headliners first, grab fastpasses for one of the other key rides I want to do, then ride another attraction whilst waiting for that fastpass to become valid. Rinse and repeat until all fastpasses are gone, but then I can just ride standby. I could normally get the key rides done in one day at most parks. Not everything, but what I had a general idea I wanted to do.

If it isn't possible to do that under this new system, I'm not going back, because rides are a central part of my vacation to Florida. I will not be coerced into planning rides or my vacations in general, and I will not stand in more, and possibly longer, standby lines because I refuse to schedule my rides two months in advance. That's just my opinion of course. But how many people would start to share it, that is the question.

Of course this system could be a wild success, popular and with no flaws. But there are so many things to go wrong, I have a terrible sense of foreboding that my trips to WDW might be coming to an end. And that concerns me I guess.
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Old 05-28-2013, 05:49 PM   #1330
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Furthermore, in March I walked into IG at noon. Asked the CM if there are any FP's left for TT, and if so what are the return times? Then I would call the fam at SAB/Beaches&Cream and say-hey get over here so I can take your park passes over and get them...or not.

She looked at me like a had 2 heads.

Well you have to walk the mile and a half to find out. I said certainly you could mount a screen here to project the same screen that has been added to the front of the park for this exact reason, or call over there somehow.

It was just barbaric IMO at this point in technology.

Even with the screen showing they are available-it's almost as stupid to have to walk over there and get them.

Complain about proposed QTY, but not the new process.
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Old 05-28-2013, 06:01 PM   #1331
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You say planning is key to having a good vacation. I'm afraid it isn't.

I might know that I can easily get into a counter service place at 3pm and not so much at 12pm,

basic facts about where things are, what is available and set a general idea of what is sensible and what isn't, in order to enjoy themselves.

I could turn up at a park at 9am without a specific itinerary using common sense to go for the headliners first, grab fastpasses for one of the other key rides I want to do, then ride another attraction whilst waiting for that fastpass to become valid. Rinse and repeat until all fastpasses are gone, but then I can just ride standby. I could normally get the key rides done in one day at most parks.
Sounds like a good plan....I mean.....
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Old 05-28-2013, 06:06 PM   #1332
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Haha-see 3 secret planners in hiding-just a numbers game at this point.
I'm actually more of a researcher than a planner. I like to have all the information in my head so that when we enter the park we can make our decisions based on the conditions on the ground. If they offer prescheduled fastpasses, I will participate. Why wouldn't I? But I really don't like being boxed in. And the mere presence of the program, will affect me, so why wouldn't I at least try?

When the test last December included ETWB, I was in the park but not part of the test. The mere presence of the test made my standby wait much longer than it would have been in the absence of FP+. So why wouldn't I want to at least try to minimize those effects, even if it's not my favorite way to tour the parks? It still beats the alternative of waiting even longer in standby while others file in through the fastpass line in front of me.
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Old 05-28-2013, 06:18 PM   #1333
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Sheesh, go away for the day and come back to 8 pages to wade through ...

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This is an incredible thread.....I have been enlightened by your posts. Admittedly, I'm in over my head here, but I was thinking if FP+ is going to play such a prominent role in how we plan our Disney vacations, what impact will it have on those of us who enjoy that 'spontaneous' Disney vacation?
Excellent point! Are you going to go for that last minute trip if you know your access to attractions will be limited to full on standby because all of the FP's have already been snatched up?

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You can plan, without having to plan out where exactly you will be at a given moment. We seldom go with a specific touring plan in mind, but a general idea and play it by ear. We will know which park we will be in in the morning and the evening, and where our ADRs are.
Yep, that's how we always tour. I don't like how this will change that.

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I want to.

I already know what days we are doing what parks for our upcoming trip. I would have no problem going in and reserving three rides a day at the 60 day mark. I would prefer it actually, as long as I got three that we wanted.
This is the key phrase here. We currently FP for SM, TBMR, Space M when at MK, for example. Presumably the headliners will be tier A and we will only be able to FP one of those rides now. I'm not interested in a FP for other rides. We like to hit the headliners and then fit in our second priority rides where we can, but they're usually rides we'd like to do, but not crushed if we miss. I'm sure many others feel this way.

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If people will pay a lot of $ to eat dessert at the Tomorrowland Terrace just to watch fireworks, how much will people pay to get at least a better spot at fireworks, parades, rides, shows, etc...

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Originally Posted by ArwenMarie View Post
That was just an example I was using to show that people will pay more for premium experiences and Disney knows that. That is what I think is going to happen with FP+, eventually. They could start charging extra for all kinds of things, premium seating for fireworks and parades, more FPs for rides, preferred seating for shows with no wait, anything. You could monetize everything at Disney on an individual basis with this system.

Just my prediction. While I think it's the ultimate goal, I also think it's going to take a long time.
I think Disney would need to be very careful with this. If you start nickel & diming your guests you are going to put them off big time. Blocking off big chunks of MS for premium parade & firework viewing, which will create traffic flow nightmares, and then charging for access to those areas does not sound like a positive PR move for Disney. If I have to pay I won't go to a show or have a premium spot for a parade (times 5 in my family) I don't care that much about them (the events, not my family! ) We'll skip the show and catch the fireworks from the resort ... oh, wait, Disney just put me off and I've left the park, along with my $$. Not super smart if that's their strategy.

And what about the families that scrimp & save for that special Disney trip? And now TPTB are going to charge them for all the best places to see a parade or the fireworks? That doesn't sound too magical. This has the potential to put a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths (if they're setting up for premium pricing for everything).
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Old 05-28-2013, 06:40 PM   #1334
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Sounds like a good plan....I mean.....
Knowing to hit the headliners first =\= knowing I want a fastpass precisely at 9.10.

What if I don't get there, it isn't necessary, or weather conditions aren't good, or I'm sick, or... I've wasted my fastpass unless they keep enough behind for day of access, since even if I can change it (unlikely since I won't have access to a mobile device, and I can't use a kiosk till I'm in park) the best times, or any times for that matter in busy months, will probably be gone unless lots of people also cancel later in the day. I'm worse off.

Not counting the fact this may well be the only major fastpass I have access too that day since I can't get another one for the same ride, and the other major rides may well be in the same tier or not available.

I may well just be in that unique Venn diagram that means I'm doomed. Especially since I refuse to pay the exorbitant costs here thanks to the skewed currency and high goods tax, so I wouldn't buy tickets in advance and prebook anyway.

It's hard not to feel this system was designed to exclude me, even if I know its just my circumstances and preferences that would exclude me from it. I guess ill just have to face it if the worst happens, that in that case WDW isn't for me. I'm still hoping they change their minds or it doesn't hurt my experience all that much though. I still want to go back at this stage. Whether I will next year...

Hope for the best, plan for the worst.
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Last edited by Squidgyness; 05-28-2013 at 07:18 PM.
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Old 05-28-2013, 06:45 PM   #1335
mom2rtk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clebeouf View Post

From everything I have seen and read, this system will actually help to eliminate those people who run through the parks, trampling any man woman or child in site to get a precious FP.
You know, I've gotten a good number of very precious fastpasses through the years. And I haven't had to trample a single man, woman or child to get one. Nor have I ever been trampled by someone on their way to get a fastpass.
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