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Old 05-28-2013, 11:38 AM   #1261
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Old 05-28-2013, 11:42 AM   #1262
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwmort View Post
But the need for the data is so much larger there as a result. In WDW they at least have the tens of thousands of resort rooms to give them an indication of how many people are coming. In DL they need to worry about thousands of spontaneous guests showing up out of the blue when the weather is nice, if they made them plan a bit more it would give them much more reliable data.
I'm not asking why DL would want the data. But, would this be worth upsetting such a large proportion of their customers? It's been said numerous times that WDW doesn't care about the frequent visitors, and as long as the newbies are happy with FP+, WDW will be OK. They don't care about their current frequent visitors, they'll get new ones.

This attitude clearly won't work in DL. Again, my post that you replied to was in response to Rileygirl's post about how FP+ will work for WDW only because they can target it towards the new/infrequent guest.
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Old 05-28-2013, 11:43 AM   #1263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rileygirl View Post
What I dont like about the NE ticket, as an evil bean counter, is that it can be used at any time in the future, over any span of years. And I dont like it, because I cant forecast when its going to be used, and how. Not until its put in play. Worse, it can be put in play, book fp+'s with it 60 days out, sit like that until the day of use, and not be used at all. The ticket is already purchased, there is no time expirey, and phantom bookings can happen.
I can buy a regular EXPIRING MYW ticket and "hold onto it" indefinitely and do the same thing.

Buying a non-expiring ticket and using it over time is no worse, nor better, in curbing "phantom FP+ reservations."

Nobody knows what kind of counter-measures may or may not be put in place if this issue is
problematic for Disney, but no need to drop NE tickets because of it.
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Old 05-28-2013, 11:44 AM   #1264
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Originally Posted by gwmort View Post
Can someone explain to me how this line of thinking works? I see it quite a bit and I can't quite wrap my head around it.

Are we saying when Mine Train opens for instance fewer people will want to ride space mountain so some of the people that would have waited in line at Space will ride at Mine Train instead? Does that assume a constant crowd level? If the new attraction attracts more people doesn't that increase all lines?

Are we saying that it only applies with the park at maximum capacity and that the construction to build the new attraction or area did not impact the capacity figure?

If it is just redistributing people to more attractions in the parks to lower lines how does that help Disney make more money?
It is not likely that the Mine Train is going to significantly boost attendance, certainly in the long run. So it's a redistribution. You can't be in line at both SM and Mine Train. You pick one or the other at that time, and you can switch later.

So you take some percentage of people in all the other lines, and put them in the Mine Train line. Thus all the other lines are shorter.

Shorter lines == less park time in line? Debatable. That time will often be used standing in other lines. Part of the reason the original Fastpass "failed". but if just a small percentage instead use the time to shop/eat, it's a plus.

Shorter lines == happier guests? Probably. That might should equate to some added dollars.
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Old 05-28-2013, 11:46 AM   #1265
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Old 05-28-2013, 11:47 AM   #1266
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I have ZERO background on DL

I cannot guess if it will come to them, or how they could work. Its totally out of the realm of me having any reasonable information or insight.

Never been, though I want to go.
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Old 05-28-2013, 11:49 AM   #1267
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rileygirl View Post
So if this system is going to fail, and even we can see how it is going to fail making lines shorter, why are they doing it? Because my friends LINES will be shorter for the newb, the casual visitor, and the infrequent visitor. Not YOU, but THEM.
We'll have to agree to disagree on this point. I'll readily eat crow if proven wrong, but I maintain that lines will not be shorter for them either. Sure, they will be tossed the bone of a couple of FP+s, but wait times OVERALL will almost certainly be longer for them as well.
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Old 05-28-2013, 11:49 AM   #1268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mom2rtk View Post
But if I used to get 6-7 fastpasses a day, and can now only get 3, doesn't that mean I'll be waiting in MORE lines?

But then I guess that I would be balanced out by all of the 80% who used to get NO fastpasses and will now spend less time waiting in lines.


Quote:
Originally Posted by magicbob View Post
Precisely the point I've been making. Is it worth being able to pre-schedule Space Mountain, Soarin' and TSMM when the trade-off is that I now cannot get a FP for Test Track, Tower of Terror, RnRC, Splash Mountain, BTMRR, and others? If the ability to use FP extensively goes away and we have to wait standby for all rides except those few we have pre-booked, then I'd say the "cost" does not outweigh the benefit for the guest. Whether the "cost" outweighs the benefit for Disney is another matter altogether.




True. But as I said previously, in order to redistribute those FP opportunities to the masses, each guest will be extremely limited, making the benefit very small for everyone.
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Originally Posted by ArwenMarie View Post
I've been reading this thread, very interesting...Anyway, had to chime in...I totally agree with this post. The idea is to redistribute the FPs more evenly. Across the entire day and across more guests. I also agree that they don't care so much about the return guests who they think will probably come back regardless, they need to keep a steady flow of new guests coming. When people go home complaining about lines, that's not good for business.

As a disclaimer, I'm excited for the new FP system. It will fit the way we tour nicely, if it is what I think it is anyway.
If everyone (50,000?) MK guests got 7 FP's-they would need 350,000 and only have around 80,000-at least headliners. That's why most were gone by noon, and at best a guest arriving then might get one. Of course it's their own fault, but they still went home complaining about the long lines.

So they could have spread out the distribution to "another FP in 4 hours", but I'm pretty sure most on here would not be too happy with that either.

Magic kingdom total fastpass plus -

E-ticket FP+ allotment
Space mountain - 21,000
Splash mountain - 15,000
Big thunder mountain - 18,000
Peter Pan - 6700
Little Mermaid 15120
Total - 80,000 @ 60% FP+ distribution and 14 hours

If this rolls out, I think super users:

1) hope you can get more day of

2) hope am FP+'s over sleep making SB faster

3) they build many more attractions with the next billions

4) US/IOA keeps growing so they can visit there
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Old 05-28-2013, 11:50 AM   #1269
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Originally Posted by Robo View Post
I can buy a regular EXPIRING MYW ticket and "hold onto it" indefinitely and do the same thing.

Buying a non-expiring ticket and using it over time is no worse, nor better, in curbing "phantom FP+ reservations."

Nobody knows what kind of counter-measures may or may not be put in place if this issue is
problematic for Disney, but no need to drop NE tickets because of it.
But there are probably far fewer tickets being purchased and not used within a reasonable amount of time than NE tickets with entitlements remaining unused for a long time. How many old pre-MYW tickets are out there with a day or two left on them? And probably long since lost?

It's a liability on the balance sheet somewhere.

I don't know if that's the reason for getting rid of it though. It was complex and often misunderstood.
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Old 05-28-2013, 11:52 AM   #1270
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Ok, I have spent so much time talking about fp+, and have enjoyed all discussions. But I have to get back to normal life a bit, and stop spending all my time on these boards. So, if I dont reply back to a lot of you, its not that I am not interested, I will be looking, but have got to do some stuff at home! I just spent 4 hours yet again typing. I have cat hair tumbleweeds in the house, and I pulled school uniform out of the dirty hamper, pressed it with my hands, and handed it to the kids! This madness must stop!

I have set up a 'smoking gun' scenario for you all. Lets see what kind of price structure happens in june. If its same old same old, then logic would dictate to me that I am completely wrong. Live by the sword, die by the sword!

Thanks again for your listening ears, its been fun!

~A
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Old 05-28-2013, 11:56 AM   #1271
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Originally Posted by gwmort View Post
I don't think it is fair to say they aren't focused on repeat business just a constant stream of first timers.

If they convert this new stream of first timers into repeat visitors, those repeat visitors will know and be comfortable with the system they learned on when they were new and be better at it, and still happy.

I've been going to WDW for almost 40 years, been dozens of times. I still don't use more than 3-4 fp in a day, the precision needed to get to 6 or 7 would not be enjoyable to me.

I like the look of the new system and look forward to trying it out.
But what attractions are those 3-4 fastpasses you get now FOR? They're not for Haunted Mansion and the Tiki Room. It's still possible that only ONE of the things you liked fastpass for previously will be in the 3 you are allowed to preschedule under the new system.
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Old 05-28-2013, 11:59 AM   #1272
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Originally Posted by PrincessArlena'sDad View Post
I'm not asking why DL would want the data. But, would this be worth upsetting such a large proportion of their customers? It's been said numerous times that WDW doesn't care about the frequent visitors, and as long as the newbies are happy with FP+, WDW will be OK. They don't care about their current frequent visitors, they'll get new ones.

This attitude clearly won't work in DL. Again, my post that you replied to was in response to Rileygirl's post about how FP+ will work for WDW only because they can target it towards the new/infrequent guest.
I have wondered the same thing about how this will all translate to DLR. Although they did take what many of us consider to be the first step toward this new system when they started FP time enforcement in February.

It's a completely different creature there and will be another interesting case study to watch.
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Old 05-28-2013, 11:59 AM   #1273
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Originally Posted by magicbob View Post
We'll have to agree to disagree on this point. I'll readily eat crow if proven wrong, but I maintain that lines will not be shorter for them either. Sure, they will be tossed the bone of a couple of FP+s, but wait times OVERALL will almost certainly be longer for them as well.
This is my problem.

Can anyone please explain:

1) How standby lines will be made shorter by expanding fastpass to more locations and making more people use fastpass (albeit 3.) Guests who have never used FP will enjoy 3 shorter lines a day, but what about the rest of the day?

2) What these newly fastpassing guests are going to feel when they arent using fastpasses. If standby lines are just the same, or worse, what is the point of messing with fastpass to enable three a day for more people. These people WILL have to wait standby at some point, and they WILL still complain about it.

Actually, won't it become even more obvious how bad standby lines are to a lot more people when that 10 minute wait with a FP suddenly becomes a 50 minute wait without one when they get to next ride? Which will they remember better, the 10 minute fastpass they had one morning or the three other rides that morning they had to wait in a loooong standby line for? Especially with the tight limits on FP numbers.

I can't think of a satisfactory answer. I'm trying to be positive, but logic dictates that more fastpass locations + more people using it = the same or longer standby lines, even with the limits. And those limits effectively result in people having to wait in a lot of standby times anyway.

What Disney is effectively doing to the fastpass system is taking away a system that really pleased some people, and replacing it with one that might please the majority very little or not at all. Not to mention annoying all those people who liked using the old system.
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Old 05-28-2013, 12:08 PM   #1274
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Appointment riding Squidgy, ask mom2rtk about it! Its going to be more then 3 during most of the year, and at holiday and peak season, disney will be gettin you to pay for optional stuff!

ok- seriously, gtg!
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Old 05-28-2013, 12:15 PM   #1275
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Quote:
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But there are probably far fewer tickets being purchased and not used within a reasonable amount of time than NE tickets with entitlements remaining unused for a long time.
That's not addressing the reason for my reply to the post I quoted.
She was siting potential FP+ "scheduling abuse" as the reason for
(her idea that) Disney would cease issuing NE tickets.

My point was that if FP+ "scheduling abuse" was my PLAN, I wouldn't
be stopped by the lack of NE tickets. I could "abuse the system" using
the (much less expensive) regular MYW tickets.
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