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Old 05-27-2013, 10:22 AM   #1141
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Not to mention I'm bothered about precisely whether this new system WILL add everyday stress to a vacation at WDW whether you want to plan or not... if I knew this system wouldn't add any stress to my WDW trips, I'd easily sit back and relax. But I don't and I've invested mentally and financially in WDW on my previous trips, I'd hate to have to pull out of any future investment.

I'll state it here for the record (partly to convince myself) I want this system to succeed even if I dont think it will. If it works as it should, and people can either use it or not without much change to the current experience when not using it, I'll run screaming down main street throwing mickey shaped treats left and right.

As it is, I'm scratching my chin and trying to work through each possible result... and there are lots.

(I'm also wondering why I haven't put my electric shaver on charge yet. But that's not really relevant is it? :P)
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Old 05-27-2013, 10:25 AM   #1142
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Folks although the stories are entertaining please keep this thread on topic regarding FP+ and Magic Bands.
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Old 05-27-2013, 10:39 AM   #1143
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Originally Posted by bcrook View Post
If you look at the posts from most people, it is not about stress - but puzzlement. It is like a Soduku or trying to put together a 5,000 piece jigsaw puzzle. Most of the comments are about figuring it out simply for the sake of understanding and figuring it out. Trying to figure out the real game before the PR and hype machine cranks up.

It may be like watching a 100 car pile up too. It could be a colossal disaster, and we just can't pull ourselves away from it. But Rileygirl is trying to provide another scenario.
That's a perfect description! I love a good mystery, and my mind wants to see if I can figure this one out.

And I have a theory that I am curious to see tested. I think that when you remove the obstacles currently involved in obtaining a FP (arriving AT the park, and walking across the park to physically pick up the fastpass) then you will increase usage. I don't see how that equates with everyone thinking the "old" system can just remain unchanged. Even WITH the addition of FP from all those attractions that don't really need it.

And honestly, in the absence of further real information from Disney, people WILL continue to discuss and speculate.

As for my own trips..... it will be what it is. And either we will continue to go or we won't. It really is as simple as that.

As for the big picture.......... I just ......... can't ......... look .......... away..........
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Old 05-27-2013, 10:43 AM   #1144
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Why do they NEED to advertise "open Wi-Fi?"
They don't need to. They already did, however. The Figment is out of the bag.

But then again...how many times has Disney announced something and not followed through? Hmm...
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Old 05-27-2013, 10:45 AM   #1145
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Originally Posted by doconeill View Post
They don't need to. They already did, however. The Figment is out of the bag.

But then again...how many times has Disney announced something and not followed through? Hmm...
My reply, of course, is that the unwashed 80% haven't read that Disney has "free WiFi."

They'd only have some splainin' to do with us 10% super users.

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Old 05-27-2013, 10:49 AM   #1146
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Old 05-27-2013, 10:53 AM   #1147
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Originally Posted by Robo View Post
My reply, of course, is that the unwashed 80% haven't read that Disney has "free WiFi."

They'd only have some splainin' to do with us 10% super users.

But they don't CARE about us 10%

And, who's the other 10%?
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Old 05-27-2013, 10:56 AM   #1148
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Originally Posted by doconeill View Post
But they don't CARE about us 10%

And, who's the other 10%?
The 10% who will be happy... Disney execs and stockholders.
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Old 05-27-2013, 10:57 AM   #1149
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Funny, when news of FP+ first came out, I was stressing about it. Then I realized how pointless it was to stress out over something we know nothing about nor when it will be released ...

... But seriously, Ive been a much less stressed person since I've just stopped worrying about FP. We go to Disney to get away from everyday stress... don't let it add to your stress
Absolutely. FP+ doesn't have me freaking out or wringing my hands, but it has caught my attention and I'm keeping my eye on things as they unfold. The reason is, our family has become one of those "soft repeat" visitors I've talked about. We've been four times with our kids. DD21 has been pushing for Universal, DH is getting tired of WDW and is looking for something new. In fact because of this we ended up cancelling our 7 day trip for the fall and have instead booked a cruise for the spring. I managed to convince DH to add on a 2 night stay before our cruise since we want to be in FL at least a day before we sail anyways.

On the other hand, myself and our younger DD's love WDW, not just for the parks, but also for our favourite resort. We diligently save every year and it's our annual family vacation. For our last couple of trips though, DH has been reluctant. Fortunately he has gone along with what we would like, and once there he has a great time. But, it's getting harder to convince him, especially with nothing really new to offer, and Magic Bands will not do it. If standby waits become longer and FP use limited I'm pretty sure we will be done for quite a while.

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Originally Posted by magicbob View Post
Not to argue semantics, but I think it is 100% certain that FP will go away once FP+ is fully implemented. The big question on everyone's mind is whether there will be "day of" FP+s available. This would be pretty much synonymous to current FP, with the exception that it may still be more challenging to get as many due to a majority of the inventory being pre-booked (think walk-up vs. ADR at TS restaurants).

The sad thing is that they could still use the RFID magic band to do all of the great things mentioned (room key, ticket media, charge card, adding personalization to attractions, etc.) AND it could simply replace the ticket media as the object swiped to receive a FP. The wrench in the works is the pre-booking aspect. If they tossed this idea and just left FP alone (except that you touch your magic band to the kiosk to get one), this could be a big success.

I think Disney is convinced that they can convince the masses that this "pre-book your rides" feature is going to keep them from having to stand in lines. The reality is that it will keep them out of a few lines, but they will quickly figure out that they will still have to stand in many more lines.

I just don't see any way possible that the proposed new system can do a better job of allowing people to stand in fewer lines for less time than the current FP system does. MAYBE if "day of" FP+ are also available, the difference won't be too significant. But if it turns out to be one decent FP+ and two worthless ones and you have to wait in standby for EVERY other attraction, that is a huge step in the wrong direction for ALL guests.

Under the current system, you have the ability to FP a lot more than that. Some have indicated that WDW is "fixing" the "inequity" of "planners" getting all the FPs and "non-planners" being stuck in standby. Assuming for the moment that this is even a factor (i.e., trying to ensure everyone has a positive experience), the problem with this FP redistribution scheme is that, to make it "fair" they are taking away many FP opportunities from the people who arrive early, keep track of their FP window, etc. and in order to spread them out to "everybody" they have to ration everybody to one decent FP. I'll resist the urge to draw any political analogies... suffice it to say that the result will be that some of us are much worse off and the "beneficiaries" get so little they are not truly any better off.
Exactly.
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Old 05-27-2013, 11:12 AM   #1150
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Originally Posted by Rileygirl View Post
Maipapaya

I have absolutely no intention of trying to sell this as a great thing for everybody, clearly not my point. I have no vested interest in this, and if you have read my last 80 odd posts in the last 6 months, you must realize that not only have I pointed out the several flaws in the system, I really think I should also add I was one of the first to point out the huge flaws in the system, back in january and february, when people were wondering why disney spent a billion of a fast pass system.

Second, I totally agree with you regarding the big old finger pointing at the problem with IT, I completely agree. There track record is horrible, and the only hope I have of it actually working on some level, is the fact that they spent a billion dollars on it. I'm clinging to it like a life raft. Then I jump ship, and figure, heck, there is no way. However, Robo asked me how I THOUGHT it could blow things out of the water if it all worked. So, I am trying to provide the scenarios in which I think there can be some coolness factor. Please go read my very first post regarding the response to robo, and know that I am aprehensive too. And I think different, and other things could have been done.

I have put my self out there, ready to dodge the many and varied tomatos that will be thrown at me. I am no novice to the disboards, I know what the response was going to be. Im not stupid. I did put my self out there, and my anti flame suit was hopefully going to be humour. The single most important thing from the response, that I am really enjoying reading, is the tech peoples chatter about how this or that could be done. Can photo technology happen in a theme park, how is that wifi system going to work. Because, if their chatter is: its impossible to do, the system is going to be inundated with chatter, ect, well then, I probably will let go of the life raft entirely, and sink under the waters of 'oh no' this is really going to be a disaster across the boards.

I also think you are missing some subtle points. The whole 'free thing is suppose to be sarcastic. I just assumed people would figure that out, and laugh along with me about the niave newbies. But anyways, to paint the obvious picture I am trying to show a couple of things simultaneously
1)a few cool, interactive elements that happen in the theme park reacting to your magic bands in either a general way, or a specific way
2)some tongue in cheek observations of how a family would get sucked into the whole casino chip mentality, spending far more, also even the squidgy vet getting somewhat played as well.
3)some possible incentives that disney may use to lure someone to preplan, for both offsite and onsite
4)something that many vets forget about when visiting disney: how you feel when you first enter those gates with some of the great stuff, like the train, and the castle, just that feeling you get. And, I dont believe its just first timers that get that feeling, people who only go every 3 or 4 years, when there is some change noted not only in the theme parks themselves, but the changes in your kids ages. If you can look through those eyes, maybe you can see how '2 chump' offerings of tiki and pirates, and a mediocre ts reservation that a newibe are almost 'forced into' under this new system would actually make them pretty happy.

I honestly dont know what the ratio between frequent visitor, and someone who only comes once every 3 or 4 years. I dont know what percentage of people do AP, DVC (which has to be a significant number) make up the stats. I dont know what the international traveler makes up. Could be the 80% is way high, and its more like 50 50. It coud be that a lot of my premise is off, not just the IT utopia, and getting the majority of people on board.

I am not optomistic at all. I am very concerned. However I wanted to forward some scenarios, if you all could picture it, and see that there could be some coolness involved.

Ok, I am really taking a break now. back later and I will quickly fiinish off the story because I want to explore a little of the CS option, and forward some other ideas that the tech people can say, this is possible, this is not possible., and there is at least one other significant and perhaps valuable thing this rubber band can offer parents of small children.

Ill make it quick and cut out the subtleness, because its possible I am not driving any point home at all.
Ok, wow. First, my intention was not to "throw tomatoes" at you, in fact I said I acknowledge the time & thought you put into your posts (although, no, I haven't read every single post written on FP+ since January as it would be quite a daunting task). This is a discussion board. You were posting a lot about this Utopian scenario. I thought we were free to comment on other's posts and add our 2 cents ...
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Old 05-27-2013, 11:36 AM   #1151
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Originally Posted by maiapapaya

Ok, wow. First, my intention was not to "throw tomatoes" at you, in fact I said I acknowledge the time & thought you put into your posts (although, no, I haven't read every single post written on FP+ since January as it would be quite a daunting task). This is a discussion board. You were posting a lot about this Utopian scenario. I thought we were free to comment on other's posts and add our 2 cents ...
It wasn't exactly a utopian scenario. It was more an attempt to visualize how the new system would look to people who don't spend hours a day on the DISBoards. It's easy for us to worry about the new system being less-than and wonder what the heck Disney is thinking. And, actually, Disney is thinking mainly about the family in Rileygirl's story.
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Old 05-27-2013, 11:55 AM   #1152
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I think I'll just briefly restate my concerns in a more succint manner for posterity.

1) Disney seem to think that the vast majority of people are ride planners. I don't. It's not the effort imo, it's psychology. Their mindset is different. Even if 60% of people are, that 40% cannot be ignored. I feel Disney are dangerously close to ignoring them.

2) Will this actually attract people and deliver a return on the investment they have chosen to put into this instead of new attractions or better maintenance.

3) Will standby lines get longer. Tests say yes, what are Disney going to do about it.

4) Fastpass expansion is stretching the FP system quite a bit. Counter service fastpasses are repellent to me. Goes against the whole point of counter service.

5) One fastpass per ride a day is utterly pitiful imo. Given the T+C's this seems likely as it is.

6) Three fastpasses per day is also too little. If they give same day faspasses, how many? Is this feasible?

7) How many kiosks. Is it enough.

8) Most importantly, will this negatively affect the experience of those who don't plan compared to now. It isn't enough to just say "you don't have to use it." I want to know, if I don't am I going to be worse off than I would be now without fastpasses.

I know I'm going over old ground here but bear with me. That's a nice brief list of my major issues with this. Disney has yet to address any of these in 5 months+.

The fact I have 8 fairly major concerns with this policy is very concerning. If Disney had chosen a new land or something, I could see some criticism, but 8 major problems? Even if most are addressed, this seems like an awfully complicated and potentially divisive policy with, strictly in my opinion, a lower return than a more conventional policy.

An overall theme in this is why. Not the different reasons Disney has given to different people, the actual and central reason for this. That will reveal a lot about where Disney wants this to go, and what they might do to get there.
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Old 05-27-2013, 12:00 PM   #1153
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Originally Posted by Squidgyness View Post
I think I'll just briefly restate my concerns in a more succint manner for posterity.

1) Disney seem to think that the vast majority of people are ride planners. I don't. It's not the effort imo, it's psychology. Their mindset is different. Even if 60% of people are, that 40% cannot be ignored. I feel Disney are dangerously close to ignoring them.

2) Will this actually attract people and deliver a return on the investment they have chosen to put into this instead of new attractions or better maintenance.

3) Will standby lines get longer. Tests say yes, what are Disney going to do about it.

4) Fastpass expansion is stretching the FP system quite a bit. Counter service fastpasses are repellent to me. Goes against the whole point of counter service.

5) One fastpass per ride a day is utterly pitiful imo. Given the T+C's this seems likely as it is.

6) Three fastpasses per day is also too little. If they give same day faspasses, how many? Is this feasible?

7) How many kiosks. Is it enough.

8) Most importantly, will this negatively affect the experience of those who don't plan compared to now. It isn't enough to just say "you don't have to use it." I want to know, if I don't am I going to be worse off than I would be now without fastpasses.

I know I'm going over old ground here but bear with me. That's a nice brief list of my major issues with this. Disney has yet to address any of these in 5 months+.

The fact I have 8 fairly major concerns with this policy is very concerning. If Disney had chosen a new land or something, I could see some criticism, but 8 major problems? Even if most are addressed, this seems like an awfully complicated and potentially divisive policy with, strictly in my opinion, a lower return than a more conventional policy.

An overall theme in this is why. Not the different reasons Disney has given to different people, the actual and central reason for this. That will reveal a lot about where Disney wants this to go, and what they might do to get there.
And this, my friend, is probably why it hasn't rolled out yet
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Old 05-27-2013, 12:13 PM   #1154
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4) Fastpass expansion is stretching the FP system quite a bit. Counter service fastpasses are repellent to me. Goes against the whole point of counter service.
The idea of needing a fastpass to get a hotdog at Casey's makes me sick to my stomach.

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Old 05-27-2013, 12:15 PM   #1155
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And this, my friend, is probably why it hasn't rolled out yet
Yep, you are probably right.

Just wish they wouldn't go with the military operation approach to releasing information.

Surely even if they can't get it to work properly, they at least know what the system will be when it is working. Couldn't they tell us that?

As people have said, it's more and more clear that Disney still doesn't really know what they want from this, or what the final rules and limits will be. And that indicates a lot more testing ahead. I wouldn't expect any significant rollout till at least mid summer at the earliest, most likely late summer.

Not encouraging hopes of a reliable system any time soon really, and certainly not the best time to be debuting a new system, if there is such a thing.

Good news for people with trips booked in the next couple of months though.
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